I hate to say it but at this point Kyler just isn’t that good...

[SoonerLou]

I don't know if you've watched any Saints games this year, but Drew Brees hasn't been great. His decline is obvious. All their fans want him gone.

Drew doesnt physically look good out there. However, he's managing the games really well. Just off of vet savvy/smarts.

 

[kerouac9]

He's currently 10th in Total QBR. He's doing very well overall as a 2nd year player.

Remove the Lions game and he's top 6.

We'll live.

Yes, and Total QBR includes rushing — which everyone agrees has been scintillating!

I don't understand why you keep bringing this up.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Somehow I ended up on team Kerouac?

 

[SoonerLou]

Yes, and Total QBR includes rushing — which everyone agrees has been scintillating!

I don't understand why you keep bringing this up.

You dont crack top 10 in Total QBR being a "below average passer"

In fact his 76 Total QBR would have been top 3 last year. A lot of QBs are playing better this year.

DVOA is your deal and thats fine. However, I'd say he's more average

Somehow I ended up on team Kerouac?

Nobody's perfect

 

[kerouac9]

You dont crack top 10 in Total QBR being a "below average passer"

In fact his 76 Total QBR would have been top 4 last year. A lot of QBs are playing better this year.

DVOA is your deal and thats fine. However, I'd say he's more average

Nobody's perfect

Well, show me a metric that has Murray as an average passer.

Kyler has 100 more rushing DYAR than any other QB in the NFL right now — that explains the difference in QBR. In passer rating he's below Ryan Fitzpatrick, Teddy Bridgewater, Gardner Minshew, Kyle Allen, and Phil Rivers.

 

[SoonerLou]

Well, show me a metric that has Murray as an average passer.

Kyler has 100 more rushing DYAR than any other QB in the NFL right now — that explains the difference in QBR. In passer rating he's below Ryan Fitzpatrick, Teddy Bridgewater, Gardner Minshew, Kyle Allen, and Phil Rivers.

2nd year QB has a passer rating of 91.
I'd say thats about average. However, I believe 3 of the last 5 years a 91 passer rating usually wound up middle of the pack (15 to 17)

So if judging in comparative seasons its considered average. However, if its just based on others playing above the norm...then yes you are correct Kyler is below average. And I'll concede that point.

The truth is that Kyler's rushing has been so good its probably robbed him of a couple of TD pass opportunities to boost the passer rating. Yes, I know he missed Fitz yesterday as well.

Like all things more data will prove where Kyler falls on these things. So time will tell.

 

[DVontel]

Just by this year so far and not total potential:

Wilson, Mahomes, Rodgers, Prescott, Jackson, Allen, Watson, Brady, Rapist, Carr

Then Murray comes in at the Tannehill, Goff, Ryan, Brees, Cam territory

That isn't an insult by any stretch

Little off topic, but Tannehill has been amazing since he got the nod last year. He absolutely belongs in that 1st group.

Look what happens when you get away from the cancer Adam Gase.

 

[DVontel]

Taking Kyler over Brees this year no question.

 

[kerouac9]

2nd year QB has a passer rating of 91.
I'd say thats about average. However, I believe 3 of the last 5 years a 91 passer rating usually wound up middle of the pack (15 to 17)

So if judging in comparative seasons its considered average. However, if its just based on others playing above the norm...then yes you are correct Kyler is below average. And I'll concede that point.

The truth is that Kyler's rushing has been so good its probably robbed him of a couple of TD pass opportunities to boost the passer rating. Yes, I know he missed Fitz yesterday as well.

Like all things more data will prove where Kyler falls on these things. So time will tell.

Not amongst his peers this season! He's 22nd in passer rating! That's below average!

He's looking up at Kyle Allen!

Yes, if you transport him back to the early 1980s, his passer rating is transcendent. But that's not when he's playing football! He's playing in 2020!

Kyler Murray is looking up at rookie Justin Herbert!

It's okay to be like "Murry needs to pass better." It's fine to admit that truth. It doesn't mean you're less of a fan.

 

[TJ]

Average throwing QBs dont throw uncatchable balls on the regular to Hopkins and Fitz in the endzone. Murray made Derek Anderson look like a good QB last night.

His mechanics are substandard, and this is a recurring issue. If that doesn't get fixed, the transcendent talent talk will be nothing more than a pipedream.

 

[Russ Smith]

2nd year QB has a passer rating of 91.
I'd say thats about average. However, I believe 3 of the last 5 years a 91 passer rating usually wound up middle of the pack (15 to 17)

So if judging in comparative seasons its considered average. However, if its just based on others playing above the norm...then yes you are correct Kyler is below average. And I'll concede that point.

The truth is that Kyler's rushing has been so good its probably robbed him of a couple of TD pass opportunities to boost the passer rating. Yes, I know he missed Fitz yesterday as well.

Like all things more data will prove where Kyler falls on these things. So time will tell.

I was actually thinking that with Hopkins last night, he's probably really glad he signed the deal before the season. He's having a great year but it looks like his TD stats will probably be down, because Kyler is such a great runner he's going to house one just about every week that means less passing TDs.

Still so impressed with how good Hopkins is, I knew he was good but I honestly had no idea how good he is. He is always open and he's so good after the catch. I can't believe we got him in that trade

If you're ranking all time Cardinal WR's you have Fitz, Roy Green, Mel Gray, Pat Tilley, Boldin etc(not in order). It's entirely possible Hop ends up 2nd best on that list.

I have a feeling he and Kyler are going to be driving defense nuts for a long time in arizona

 

[SoonerLou]

Not amongst his peers this season! He's 22nd in passer rating! That's below average!

He's looking up at Kyle Allen!

Yes, if you transport him back to the early 1980s, his passer rating is transcendent. But that's not when he's playing football! He's playing in 2020!

Kyler Murray is looking up at rookie Justin Herbert!

It's okay to be like "Murry needs to pass better." It's fine to admit that truth. It doesn't mean you're less of a fan.

When and where did I say he didnt need to pass better?

When and where did I say his passing has been transcendent?

Ultimately we're arguing over 4 to 5 spots. I think he's average 16th or so. DVOA says 21. Passer rating says 23. A 91 has been 15 to 16 in in a couple of the past 5 years.

Just LAST YEAR it would have been 15th

I like QBR cause it doesnt reward garbage time stats like passer rating does. Still...I think everyone here agrees he needs to be a better player.

Just like QBs are putting up better QBRs this year they are putting up better passer ratings.

However, if he's just a really good player that leads us to wins I'm not going to cry about Minshew and Kyle Allen having "better passer ratings". lol

 

[kerouac9]

When and where did I say he didnt need to pass better?

Does he need to pass better?

 

[dscher]

However, if he's just a really good player that leads us to wins I'm not going to cry about Minshew and Kyle Allen having "better passer ratings". lol

This.

 

[SoonerLou]

Does he need to pass better?

Just like his passer rating would have been 15th (average) last year. Yep. He needs to be a better passer.

Sorry I didnt make it clear here. I said player, but I was obviously meaning passer.

I like QBR cause it doesnt reward garbage time stats like passer rating does. Still...I think everyone here agrees he needs to be a better player.

 

[SoonerLou]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

I was actually thinking that with Hopkins last night, he's probably really glad he signed the deal before the season. He's having a great year but it looks like his TD stats will probably be down, because Kyler is such a great runner he's going to house one just about every week that means less passing TDs.

Still so impressed with how good Hopkins is, I knew he was good but I honestly had no idea how good he is. He is always open and he's so good after the catch. I can't believe we got him in that trade

If you're ranking all time Cardinal WR's you have Fitz, Roy Green, Mel Gray, Pat Tilley, Boldin etc(not in order). It's entirely possible Hop ends up 2nd best on that list.

I have a feeling he and Kyler are going to be driving defense nuts for a long time in arizona

Yep.

Also you gotta factor in the TDs he just misses out on in terms of his impact. Hopkins was stopped at the 1 against the 49ers. Drake gets the TD. Yesterday Kyler was stopped at the 1. Drake gets the TD.

If he somehow keeps pace and puts up 43 total TDs we'll be in darn good shape. Him and Hopkins should get more comfortable in time.

 

[Russ Smith]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Yep.

Also you gotta factor in the TDs he just misses out on in terms of his impact. Hopkins was stopped at the 1 against the 49ers. Drake gets the TD. Yesterday Kyler was stopped at the 1. Drake gets the TD.

If he somehow keeps pace and puts up 43 TDs total TDs we'll be in darn good shape. Him and Hopkins should get more comfortable in time.

My one fear with Kyler is that he's going to see running as a crutch to not improve as a passer. I spent all last year imploring him to run more, now I think he's running enough, he just needs to fine tune the passing part.

Right now he's a bit like vintage Tim Hardaway or Baron Davis, spectacular plays, fun to watch, but not consistent enough.

I want to continue to see the great plays but make the routine ones more often too.

 

[SoonerLou]

My one fear with Kyler is that he's going to see running as a crutch to not improve as a passer. I spent all last year imploring him to run more, now I think he's running enough, he just needs to fine tune the passing part.

Right now he's a bit like vintage Tim Hardaway or Baron Davis, spectacular plays, fun to watch, but not consistent enough.

I want to continue to see the great plays but make the routine ones more often too.

I actually think he is consistently...inconsistent.

Yesterday he had three 3 drives that went nowhere and then scored 3 straight tds (almost..Drake got the 2nd)

To me unlocking his real potential is when/if he can escape, but slow down and start finding/hitting open guys down field.

He's going to have tipped passes, not see open guys some times, etc because of his height. His running is overcoming that for now. However, he needs something for when teams take away his fastball so to speak. Eventually teams will know as soon as he moves around...he's running. Need to be a threat as a passer as well.

 

[Garthshort]

On NFL Talk this morning, Florio and Simms said that KM didn't have a good passing game, last night, but both agreed that he's the most exciting player in the NFL. To which I agree.

 

[KYCardFan]

Got no quarrel with Kyler he will exponentially improve as the season progresses

Cards are 4-2 he has played 3 good games, 1 average game, 1 below average game and 1 bad game

 

[SoonerLou]

Outside of the Lions game

Kyler has a passer rating of 96. 66% on the year 8tds 3 ints

Since the Lions game

105 passer rating 65% 6 tds 1 int


If the Lions game was truly his 1 bad int game we should be ok. Him being off will happen sometimes just as long as he's not piling up turnovers as well.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I was actually thinking that with Hopkins last night, he's probably really glad he signed the deal before the season. He's having a great year but it looks like his TD stats will probably be down, because Kyler is such a great runner he's going to house one just about every week that means less passing TDs.

Still so impressed with how good Hopkins is, I knew he was good but I honestly had no idea how good he is. He is always open and he's so good after the catch. I can't believe we got him in that trade

If you're ranking all time Cardinal WR's you have Fitz, Roy Green, Mel Gray, Pat Tilley, Boldin etc(not in order). It's entirely possible Hop ends up 2nd best on that list.

I have a feeling he and Kyler are going to be driving defense nuts for a long time in arizona

He is awesome. But I don’t think he’ll have the longevity to be #2.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Outside of the Lions game

Kyler has a passer rating of 96. 66% on the year 8tds 3 ints

Since the Lions game

105 passer rating 65% 6 tds 1 int


If the Lions game was truly his 1 bad int game we should be ok. Him being off will happen sometimes just as long as he's not piling up turnovers as well.

I will never understand the argument to look at stats, but disregard one run, or one bad pass, or one game. They all happened. They factor into the bigger picture. But that’s just me...

 

[oaken1]

I will never understand the argument to look at stats, but disregard one run, or one bad pass, or one game. They all happened. They factor into the bigger picture. But that’s just me...

they do, and for the most part I agree.
But I do think its important to know when the stats occurred.... first quarter stats usually mean more than stats that were racked up in the fourth when the game is already decided.
for example, Drake had a fantastic stat line.... but in the first half he did basically nothing, he was putrid in the first quarter and I think it was two back to back runs for about fifteen yards each that made his second quarter...... that sixty nine yarder at the end really made his stat line..... but it didnt affect the game.....when the game was in contention he didnt do crap


same can be said for a qb that racks up garbage time passing yards and cheap completions..... I didnt see kyler doing that

 

[SoonerLou]

I will never understand the argument to look at stats, but disregard one run, or one bad pass, or one game. They all happened. They factor into the bigger picture. But that’s just me...

Its adding context and perspective. One bad high int game can change the view of a such a small sample size. This very thread itself is a judgment and we've had people not take everything into account. Or whats accounted for isnt "good enough" at the moment for a 2nd year player.

We then judge how does a player respond since such a bad game? So far its been more positive. More games, data in the future will let us know if it was a blip or a trend.