I’m Not the Only One Who Thinks They’re Tanking

[dreamcastrocks]

The money Michael paid to DHop left his pocket three years ago. He actually saved a whole bunch of cash by releasing Hop.

That's also my point. He is looking to not spend and save money at the same time. This move just reinforces that.

LOL. Or Paris Johnson, Jr.

Whether you like it or believe it or not, LT is the 2nd or 3rd most important position on the team, just isn't a sexy one.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I think we're getting to the heart of it now. Not that I think it's as simple as MB is screwing Monti by withholding money. More like MB never wanted to spend and sold Monti (or was in part sold by Monti) on a strategy where they just sit on their cash for this FA period. Either way, it just plain sucks and is bush league ball. When people reference the phrase "poverty franchise," this is why.

Good looking out pointing out this likely reasoning

It is all a guess work really.

 

[kerouac9]

That's also my point. He is looking to not spend and save money at the same time. This move just reinforces that.

Whether you like it or believe it or not, LT is the 2nd or 3rd most important position on the team, just isn't a sexy one.

Have you ever made a misstatement or exaggeration and taken it back?

Who were the “franchise altering” left tackles? Also, when will PJJ start playing left tackle?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Because I read everything Harry writes and if You and Stout both feel I just hate on people, why respond to me? If the mods feel that way too, I'll just move on!

Well, I never said any of that. Just seems kinda silly to read a thread about tanking and then take the time in the thread about tanking to yell at posters that you’re sick of reading about tanking, no?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

most of them sucked?? I wanted Allen Lazard but he went to the Jets to help lure arod... but who else was really worthy of a free agent contract....considering the staff is looking for self motivated team players ... there really werent any to speak of.... I mean, we could certainly use Donkey Kong... but other than being old he is notoriously one of the dirtiest players in the past 30 years... you think they want that guy mentoring youngsters?

Your argument is this offseason was completely devoid of functional free agents other than Lazard? I’m just making sure I’m getting this right.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It takes two to tango, though. Allen and Murphy might not have taken those contracts from AZ.

Unless they were predisposed to never sign with the cardinals again for non-cardinal reason that’s not an excuse. It is literally the cardinals job to persuade and convince free agents that they want to sign with them.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Those players might win you a game or two.

And that should still bet you the first pick. But also start your rebuild! Gasp! Dismayo! Say it ain’t so!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

So. You are open to the possibility, even probability, that Monti has a plan. But that those of us on the outside looking in who are working with less information just dont know what it is.

Good god I HOPE he has a plan. Doesn’t mean it’s a good one, but he’s better at least have a damn plan. If he’s just winging things are even worse than any darksider could imagine.

 

[Billy Bob]

Well, I never said any of that. Just seems kinda silly to read a thread about tanking and then take the time in the thread about tanking to yell at posters that you’re sick of reading about tanking, no?

Stout did and you have issues with me, so be it!

 

[Stout]

Stout did and you have issues with me, so be it!

I don't have issues with you personally; I'll hit back when you take cheap potshots, though.

 

[Billy Bob]

I don't have issues with you personally; I'll hit back when you take cheap potshots, though.

I will not use the words "Dark Siders" in a post again!

 

[Carolinacacti]

"Dark Siders" Money doesn't buy you wins. It's hard to defend this organization but let the players play this year out. All this board is doing is going in circles about Free agency, coaching, plan. I hope its not as bad as Wilks team but Gannon's not giving off that vibe he had.

 

[CardNots]

"Dark Siders" Money doesn't buy you wins. It's hard to defend this organization but let the players play this year out. All this board is doing is going in circles about Free agency, coaching, plan. I hope its not as bad as Wilks team but Gannon's not giving off that vibe he had.

Prepare yourself… as when camp opens criticism will be at a fever pitch. Once the ship arrives for the season the gang plank will roll out…

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Have you ever made a misstatement or exaggeration and taken it back?

More than I would like to admit.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

And that should still bet you the first pick. But also start your rebuild! Gasp! Dismayo! Say it ain’t so!

Which players out of curiosity? Which players would be good enough to help us in the future, but not good enough to help us now?

 

[Chopper0080]

I think it’s important to consider the role free agents can play in a rebuild. Leadership, especially by example, is critical for a successful rebuild. It’s likely why they want to keep Baker. The offensive leader is up in the air unless Murray steps up. They could have improved things by signing a vet or two. They didn’t need to be stars, just competent players who play hard. As it is, I’m worried about developing the younger players.

I think we agree on this. If you want your young players to develop, I believe you have to have an infrastructure to support them doing to. Tough to refine the mechanics of a young QB if the offensive line in front of him is overmatched. Tough to grow pass rushers when your secondary can't cover long enough to let the rushers get home. You can argue the reverse for DBs. Tough to develop a running game if you have a defense that gets down 14 in the first quarter.

My biggest issue with gutting rosters is this impact. And when losing is the constant, tough to sell players on sacrificing for the team. A losing environment is just a tough place to build a winning culture. And the longer the losing occurs, the tougher it gets. Monti and Gannon walking a very narrow path to success with how they have approached year 1.

 

[Chopper0080]

I agree with what you are saying, I would just wait until next year to start the process. Hopefully two more picks in the top 5 in next year's draft set this team up for the future.

There is a clock/formula when it comes to how much losing it takes for a coach's message to get lost. This starts when the coach is hired, not the when the organization decides to attempt to compete. Every loss undermines the coaching staff, and the worse the loss, the worse the impact.

How many good people do you know if professional environments who choose to stay in bad situations or work under bad management vs finding alternatives because they have options? Good people won't stay and bad people are indifferent and maintain that environment.

 

[Krangodnzr]

There is a clock/formula when it comes to how much losing it takes for a coach's message to get lost. This starts when the coach is hired, not the when the organization decides to attempt to compete. Every loss undermines the coaching staff, and the worse the loss, the worse the impact.

Honestly, maybe the Cardinals ARE looking at Gannon to be their Doug Collins to use an NBA reference.

When the Cardinals unload Murray, draft Caleb/Drake and another blue chipper next year and can rebuild the team the right way, maybe they are a more attractive situation.

 

[Chopper0080]

Honestly, maybe the Cardinals ARE looking at Gannon to be their Doug Collins to use an NBA reference.

When the Cardinals unload Murray, draft Caleb/Drake and another blue chipper next year and can rebuild the team the right way, maybe they are a more attractive situation.

Whether they intend to or not, they might be putting themselves in that situation. The unfortunate part of that is stability is the hallmark of successful franchises. More turnover just continues the cycle.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

How many good people do you know if professional environments who choose to stay in bad situations or work under bad management vs finding alternatives because they have options? Good people won't stay and bad people are indifferent and maintain that environment.

It was just so discouraging to read the Byron Murphy article - its a perfect encapsulation of the problems with the team. Murphy sounds like a guy who was doing time and finally got released from prison:

https://www.si.com/nfl/vikings/news/byron-murphy-jr-thrilled-be-viking-looking-prove-himself-again

"Now that he's in Minnesota, Murphy isn't paying for food at the facility anymore.

"I just think everything's great right now," he said on Tuesday. "Just loving it, to be honest."

"Happy to kind of get away from that situation," Murphy added. "Always thankful for that team, coming from there, but I'm here now, excited, happy. I'd probably say this is just better for me.


"Everything's better," he said with a wink and a glance at the facility behind him."

 

[Krangodnzr]

Whether they intend to or not, they might be putting themselves in that situation. The unfortunate part of that is stability is the hallmark of successful franchises. More turnover just continues the cycle.

Well they made one smart move: build the OL for a young QB.

 

[Chopper0080]

Well they made one smart move: build the OL for a young QB.

Of course they still have time, but this is why not upgrading C annoys me so much. You add a quality C to our OL personnel and it starts to become a strength of the roster. That strength allows you to evaluate everything else. it is what I was hoping they would also do with the defensive front but...

 

[Chopper0080]

and as much as I hate talking about June or August FA signings. There are a bunch of vets available who can be overpaid on one year deals who probably aren't very interested in June offseason work.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

There is a clock/formula when it comes to how much losing it takes for a coach's message to get lost. This starts when the coach is hired, not the when the organization decides to attempt to compete. Every loss undermines the coaching staff, and the worse the loss, the worse the impact.

Sure there is, but it usually isn't after year 1.

How many good people do you know if professional environments who choose to stay in bad situations or work under bad management vs finding alternatives because they have options? Good people won't stay and bad people are indifferent and maintain that environment.

Not sure you can compare this situation to NFL players. It isn't like NFL players can really shop around for alternatives.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Of course they still have time, but this is why not upgrading C annoys me so much. You add a quality C to our OL personnel and it starts to become a strength of the roster. That strength allows you to evaluate everything else. it is what I was hoping they would also do with the defensive front but...

After not drafting a pass rusher in round one, you can't convince me that center was a bigger need. Instead they went with drafting a guy with traits (Gaines) later instead.