How far up would we need to trade in order to really get an impact pass rusher?

[oaken1]

was looking over players and it hit me that there really is not much in the way of sure fire impact players in this draft defensively... lots of good players but not much for great players.
so the idea of moving up popped into my head............. considering we are in a win now situation with a window that is closing..."moving up" became..."acquiring another pick" in my mind.......... but where would we need to move to too exactly?


Trade.

Next years 1st and 3rd round picks, with this years 4th rd pick and Guard Jonathan Cooper to the Indianapolis Colts for the #18 overall pick.

Good trade value for the Colts and gets them a piece they need to protect Andrew Luck,...they are most likely drafting Oline anyway with the pick..

okay so now we have #29 as well as #18..... looking at draft boards and mocks all over the internet... it is pretty unlikely that we can get an impact pass rusher at #18......... in fact when you look at all of the mocks out there...the guy we pick at #29 in one draft is picked at #15 in another....the difference in the talent is that slight this year..an entire first round of...what?? Red Chip players?

Is Joey Bosa the reincarnation of Mark Gasteneu? seen him fall as far as 8 in a mock...value wise....our two firsts can be packaged and move us up around 7 or 8 with our picks valued at 1520 points and the #7 pick valued at 1500....

San Francisco has #7... they also have a new coach who wants to brand the team with his own style....and they desperately need an infusion of young talent...so adding an additional first round pick,.. with smaller contract numbers...could be big for them.

#7 might be high enough to get us a stud...maybe....many mocks have Paxton Lynch on the board at #7...but I am not so sure an game changing pass rusher would be there..

or would you stand pat with two firsts,...and pick up say...DeForrest Buckner and Leonard Floyd


what do you think? Is it even worth while to try and move up?? if so,...how would you do it and who would you do it with?

 

[BurqueCardFan]

I don't think there is any sure fire pass rusher. Why would we give up so much just to get the #18 pick. I would rather overpay in free agency and pick the BPA at #29 and/or the second round. Impact players can still be drafted in the late first. The Pats selected Chandler Jones in the 20's.

 

[oaken1]

I don't think there is any sure fire pass rusher. Why would we give up so much just to get the #18 pick. I would rather overpay in free agency and pick the BPA at #29 and/or the second round. Impact players can still be drafted in the late first. The Pats selected Chandler Jones in the 20's.

that is not that much to give for the #18 overall,...considering in that scenario we still have the 29 as well... the only added value is Cooper,...and this is working with the possibility the coaches are done trying to fit him in to our system. Part of the concept is that if we get 2 first round players,.. or one truly impact player...that first next year may be the 32,...in which case what we paid goes down.......of course it could all derail and next years pick is in the top ten,.. but I find that unlikely...
overpaying in FA hits your cap harder than rookies do,...and more often leads to dead money...
Impact players "can" be drafted anywhere in the draft...the likelihood just goes down the further out of the top ten you pick. Personally I think Carl Nassib from Penn will be an impact player, and I am pretty sure we could get him in the second round....

was really just wondering if anybody thought there was a particular guy worth going after and if so ...how would they go about getting it done....

 

[Chopper0080]

I don't see any pass rusher in this draft that is worth trading up for. Bosa looks like Chris Long which translates to good player, little pass rush impact. Spence is the same. Darron Lee is the LB that shows the most burst and explosion next to Jack and Smith pre injury.

I'm more on board with drafting two guys in rounds two thru five, than spending a first on an edge player.

 

[Dude]

I don't think there is any sure fire pass rusher. Why would we give up so much just to get the #18 pick. I would rather overpay in free agency and pick the BPA at #29 and/or the second round. Impact players can still be drafted in the late first. The Pats selected Chandler Jones in the 20's.

I don't see any pass rusher in this draft that is worth trading up for. Bosa looks like Chris Long which translates to good player, little pass rush impact. Spence is the same. Darron Lee is the LB that shows the most burst and explosion next to Jack and Smith pre injury.

I'm more on board with drafting two guys in rounds two thru five, than spending a first on an edge player.

+1

 

[Dr. Jones]

Spence, Correia, & Nkemdiche (did I spell any of those correctly?) could all be that guy.

I see them all going in the 18 to 27 range.

 

[Ohcrap75]

I agree with most above. From most reports Spence didn't wow anybody with his interviews, so who knows where he will go. Floyd still has positional questions and strength, so hard to gauge where he will go either. Unless we would move up to ten, there is no guarantee either will be there. A move to 18 might not get us anything better than what would be available at 29.

 

[cardpa]

I don't see any pass rusher in this draft that is worth trading up for. Bosa looks like Chris Long which translates to good player, little pass rush impact. Spence is the same. Darron Lee is the LB that shows the most burst and explosion next to Jack and Smith pre injury.

I'm more on board with drafting two guys in rounds two thru five, than spending a first on an edge player.

Since I am not knowledgeable about draft trade values I am just going to throw this out there, is it possible to get a 2nd and 3rd for the 29th pick and then have 2 draft picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds? That would be 4 picks in rounds 2 and 3. Since there doesn't seem to be any sure fire picks by #29 why not trade back and get extra picks in the 2nd and 3rd round?

 

[football karma]

So just to pick one ranking

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings


is Shaq Lawson -- ranked 13 (the second ranked pass rusher after Joey Bosa)

really any more of a sure thing than, lets say,

Emmanuel Ogbah -- ranked 31?

i just dont know -- and while one is ranked higher for a reason, i just dont see a whole lot more certainty with Lawson than i do with Ogbah

 

[oaken1]

Since I am not knowledgeable about draft trade values I am just going to throw this out there, is it possible to get a 2nd and 3rd for the 29th pick and then have 2 draft picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds? That would be 4 picks in rounds 2 and 3. Since there doesn't seem to be any sure fire picks by #29 why not trade back and get extra picks in the 2nd and 3rd round?

by the charts,...say with the colts for example...our pick at 29 is worth 640 points
their 2nd and 3rd rnd picks are worth 410 and 185...totaling 595...their fifth is worth 33.5.....so about 625pts...

the trade could be done if someone wants another first round pick.

this example would give us 2 seconds, 2 thirds, a 4th and 3 fifths(comp pick) and a 6th for our draft. nine picks total. In that scenario I could see SK trying to package the 6th and a couple 5ths,..maybe the 4th..and try to move back up......but you gotta have a trade partner.

 

[Chopper0080]

My top 5 edge players probably rank like this...

1-Emmanuel Ogbah
2-Shaq Lawson
3-Leonard Floyd
4-Kevin Dodd
5-Jordan Jenkins

Ogbah and Lawson are close, but are both inconsistent and don't move as fluidly as I would like. Dodd just doesn't have much film, but he looks the part. Floyd was a guy who I thought would have to kick inside, but his frame looks like it could hold a ton of weight even with him weighing 244 at the combine. Floyd also has a ton of experience. Jenkins is high for me because he can win with power consistently, has a motor, and has zero character issues.

I don't view Bosa or Nkemdiche as OLB players.

 

[Chopper0080]

Since I am not knowledgeable about draft trade values I am just going to throw this out there, is it possible to get a 2nd and 3rd for the 29th pick and then have 2 draft picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds? That would be 4 picks in rounds 2 and 3. Since there doesn't seem to be any sure fire picks by #29 why not trade back and get extra picks in the 2nd and 3rd round?

Well, I think there are players who could help the Cardinals at #29 and who are worth it. Just because they aren't edge rushers doesn't mean they don't carry value.

Kenny Clark
MacKensie Alexander
Eli Apple
Paxton Lynch
Darron Lee
Reggie Ragland
Jonathan Bullard

Plenty of players, but if somehow they are all gone, I imagine Keim will look to move back.

 

[Mitch]

This is not a draft to move up for an edge rusher---because even the top rated one, Joey Bosa is not a speed guy.

Ogbah looks like the next best edge guy---and yet you put on the Baylor tape and he was getting stonewalled and stopped in his tracks all game by LT Spencer Drango, who projects as a guard in the NFL. Ogbah beat the RT a couple of times, but it is just not a tape that sells you on him as a first rounder.

There is so much defensive line talent otherwise----there will be good DTs/DEs available at #29. Plus, Correa from Boise St. has some good quicks at his size, plus the kind of motor Keim likes. Kim could probably trade down from #29 and still get a good DT or Correa or Victor Ochi (sleeper OLB).

 

[Ohcrap75]

If Ogbah had Shaq Lawson's motor he would be a top five player. But when I watch him he fires out of his stance about 20% of the time. That's why very average OT's are able to completely shut him down for most the game. On the plays he chooses to play like a madman he is dominant. It's like watching Clowney's Junior tape all over again.

 

[Harry]

If you like Floyd you probably have to go up to the late teens. That would likely cost the Cards their first & second round choices. Ragland, who does not look like a pass rusher would cost a little more.

 

[oaken1]

If you like Floyd you probably have to go up to the late teens. That would likely cost the Cards their first & second round choices. Ragland, who does not look like a pass rusher would cost a little more.

it is a little confusing right now with the players all being so close. I was pretty sure Floyd was a top 10 guy but today I saw two mocks from respected sites that had us getting him at 29.

 

[b8rtm8nn]

This is looking more and more like a draft in which we may try and move up 5-7 slots if someone we love slides, and if we miss, then we trade down because of a multitude of options, just like two years ago

 

[Chopper0080]

If you like Floyd you probably have to go up to the late teens. That would likely cost the Cards their first & second round choices. Ragland, who does not look like a pass rusher would cost a little more.

Meh, they both have issues which could cost them to be available at 29. Ragland because he is not a pass rusher at all, and Floyd because of the physicality questions. I agree that they aren't a lock to be there, but they fall into the top 45 range vs the top 15 IMO.

I can easily say that Wentz, Goff, Elliot, Tunsil, Stanley, Conklin, Bosa, Buckner, Jack, Ramsey, Lee, and Hargreaves are better. And, I can make the argument for Treadwell, Rankins, Lawson, Nkemdiche, and A Robinson are as well.

 

[Jim Otis]

Reality -- after the Von Miller show in the AFCC and the SB , players seen as Legit pass rushers are not going to stay on the board long . IMHO , I don't see MB-SK risking the Deed To The Ranch to move up that far , so SK will turn every stone in FA to improve the pass rush . If stuck at 29 (probable) I believe SK will select the best player he can get rather than REACHING OUT OF NEED for an iffy/fringe leftover pass rusher .

 

[Chopper0080]

Reality -- after the Von Miller show in the AFCC and the SB , players seen as Legit pass rushers are not going to stay on the board long . IMHO , I don't see MB-SK risking the Deed To The Ranch to move up that far , so SK will turn every stone in FA to improve the pass rush . If stuck at 29 (probable) I believe SK will select the best player he can get rather than REACHING OUT OF NEED for an iffy/fringe leftover pass rusher .

My fingers are crossed for Kenny Clark UCLA...

 

[pinetopred]

My fingers are crossed for Kenny Clark UCLA...

Mine too the more tape I watch the more I like what he would bring to us

 

[Jetstream Green]

I don't know about you guys but if I was in charge on draft day... I would just call teams and give asinine offers like "I will give you our fourth and Sowell" for a second rounder and tie up their phones with "not the Cardinals again" lol

 

[ARZCardinals]

No such thing as a 'sure thing' at pass rushers
Look at Clowney from the Texans. #1 pick....hyped like ice cream in the summer heat. Was given the 'can't miss' statement from every 'expert' under the sun. Where's he at now? There are 100's of these college guys who were 'the man' in college, but bums or less than average in the NFL. The O line guys are bigger, faster and NEVER lose technique (unless you are Levi Brown).
Shoot if a DE was to make 1 sack...shoot just 1 sack per game they'd be considered a GOD. That'd be 16 sacks. O lineman are so good, that it just doesn't happen.
I have no idea how the Cards are going to address that huge huge problem.

 

[oaken1]

No such thing as a 'sure thing' at pass rushers
Look at Clowney from the Texans. #1 pick....hyped like ice cream in the summer heat. Was given the 'can't miss' statement from every 'expert' under the sun. Where's he at now? There are 100's of these college guys who were 'the man' in college, but bums or less than average in the NFL. The O line guys are bigger, faster and NEVER lose technique (unless you are Levi Brown).
Shoot if a DE was to make 1 sack...shoot just 1 sack per game they'd be considered a GOD. That'd be 16 sacks. O lineman are so good, that it just doesn't happen.
I have no idea how the Cards are going to address that huge huge problem.

IMO we need to address it by making sure there are no linemen available to block our rushers......fill in our D-Line with guys who command double teams every play.

 

[Jetstream Green]

IMO we need to address it by making sure there are no linemen available to block our rushers......fill in our D-Line with guys who command double teams every play.

What a novel idea... wait, all those guys are not there