Head Coach choice

Head Coach choice


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Chopper0080

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Evidence or indication?

An 8 hour meeting followed by 3 days of coaching search inactivity suggests they tried. What the Broncos paid suggests they were bidding against someone else.

But we will never know for sure.
Two legitimate explanations.

1 - Payton was using the Cardinals as leverage.

2 - Bidwill couldn't close Payton to being the HC.

I'm not sure either are good things when viewing the organization as a whole.
 

Card'em

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Two legitimate explanations.

1 - Payton was using the Cardinals as leverage.

2 - Bidwill couldn't close Payton to being the HC.

I'm not sure either are good things when viewing the organization as a whole.

Third explanation:

3. Bidwill and Ossenfort decided that the draft choice compensation for Payton was too high and the organization was better off holding on to the draft choices and hiring another well qualified coach.

I'm not sure this is a bad thing when viewing the organization.
 

Krangodnzr

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How about dredging up Brian Billick?

At the very least we can take bets on how long it'll take before he calls our QB "Kyler Murphy" at a press conference.
I bet he calls him Kyle Murphy

"I'm excited to accept the job to coach the Arizona Cardinals. Kyle Murphy is one of the most talented and explosive Quarterbacks in the NFL. Mr Birdwill, thank you for this opportunity!"
 

Chopper0080

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Third explanation:

3. Bidwill and Ossenfort decided that the draft choice compensation for Payton was too high and the organization was better off holding on to the draft choices and hiring another well qualified coach.

I'm not sure this is a bad thing when viewing the organization.
Why spend a full day with a candidate when you already have an idea of what the compensation is going to be? I feel like this is a huge reach.

You don't go to test drive a Ferrari if you only have the funds for a Camry.
 

RON_IN_OC

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Why spend a full day with a candidate when you already have an idea of what the compensation is going to be? I feel like this is a huge reach.

You don't go to test drive a Ferrari if you only have the funds for a Camry.
Because if you know it's between you and 1 other team and that other team reportedly moved off your candidate, you don't sit around and negotiate against yourself. I think Payton would have taken either job and he used both as leverage against the other.
 

Krangodnzr

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Why spend a full day with a candidate when you already have an idea of what the compensation is going to be? I feel like this is a huge reach.

You don't go to test drive a Ferrari if you only have the funds for a Camry.
Do the reasons really matter at this point? The Cardinals obviously were interested in Payton and couldn't close the deal.

Even if they were scared off by the draft pick compensation, that's just dumb. A really good coach is definitely worth what the Broncos sent to the Saints.
 

Card'em

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Why spend a full day with a candidate when you already have an idea of what the compensation is going to be? I feel like this is a huge reach.

You don't go to test drive a Ferrari if you only have the funds for a Camry.

Lots of speculation here. We have no way of knowing that the compensation for Payton was finalized before the interview. Maybe there was still room for negotiation and it didn't work out. Nobody really knows.
 

BritCard

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Two legitimate explanations.

1 - Payton was using the Cardinals as leverage.

2 - Bidwill couldn't close Payton to being the HC.

I'm not sure either are good things when viewing the organization as a whole.

Very clearly there is a 3rd option and probably the most likely one.

3 - Payton was happy to join the Cards but they were outbid or didn't want to pay that price.
 

BritCard

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Why spend a full day with a candidate when you already have an idea of what the compensation is going to be? I feel like this is a huge reach.

You don't go to test drive a Ferrari if you only have the funds for a Camry.

Well you said it yourself. An "idea" what it will be.

When there are 2 interested parties that idea is meaningless. It could well be that the Cards were told the price was the equivalent of a late 1st, and they thought their 2nd this year and a 4th next year would do the deal. Only for the Broncos to outbid them.
 

overseascardfan

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To be honest, at this point it doesn't matter who ends up as HC, but OC, QB Coach and DC staff is what I would be interested in knowing.
 

Chopper0080

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Very clearly there is a 3rd option and probably the most likely one.

3 - Payton was happy to join the Cards but they were outbid or didn't want to pay that price.
Which is not closing the deal. You have said you negotiate contracts for a living...you should know this.
 

BritCard

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Which is not closing the deal. You have said you negotiate contracts for a living...you should know this.

No. You said,

2 - Bidwill couldn't close Payton to being the HC.

That's not remotely the same as not being willing to pay what Denver paid. Closing a deal by paying more than you think it's worth is not good business.
 

Chopper0080

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Because if you know it's between you and 1 other team and that other team reportedly moved off your candidate, you don't sit around and negotiate against yourself. I think Payton would have taken either job and he used both as leverage against the other.
In real estate, you get the house or you don't. The more unique or desirable the house, the more you have to compete for it. I am sure you have told clients when it comes time to make an offer that they need to put up their absolute best offer. This is just another example of Bidwill's best offer not being enough to get what he wanted. Now he settles for something else.
 

Chopper0080

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No. You said,

2 - Bidwill couldn't close Payton to being the HC.

That's not remotely the same as not being willing to pay what Denver paid. Closing a deal by paying more than you think it's worth is not good business.
Closing a deal and getting the best deal are two different things. Bidwill wasn't willing to put out an offer to get the Payton deal done. He couldn't close the deal like he wasn't able to close Andy Reid or Payton Manning in recent history. Whether or not Payton was worth what Denver paid is a different argument. Denver played to win and Bidwill played to play.
 

slanidrac16

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Why spend a full day with a candidate when you already have an idea of what the compensation is going to be? I feel like this is a huge reach.

You don't go to test drive a Ferrari if you only have the funds for a Camry.
It’s frustrating but perhaps the front office was using Payton for his intel and insight. We simply don’t know. I think the Cards were truly curious about a Payton hire. It very may well be it was too tall a hill for Payton to climb and would have taken too long to get there.
The Broncos are in a better position to succeed sooner than the Cardinals.
Not claiming this to be true. Just trying to cast a net far and wide for reasons! :)
 

RON_IN_OC

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In real estate, you get the house or you don't. The more unique or desirable the house, the more you have to compete for it. I am sure you have told clients when it comes time to make an offer that they need to put up their absolute best offer. This is just another example of Bidwill's best offer not being enough to get what he wanted. Now he settles for something else.
In real estate, it's all about the market and comparables. If I had a buyer who wanted a home for sale and it was known to have very little to no competition, but the seller wanted over market value, I wouldn't be the best agent if I told my buyer to meet their demands without negotiating. If my buyer is dead set on the home and there are no other options, then that's a different story. I'd still try to negotiate, but it would look differently.
 

Jetstream Green

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It’s frustrating but perhaps the front office was using Payton for his intel and insight. We simply don’t know. I think the Cards were truly curious about a Payton hire. It very may well be it was too tall a hill for Payton to climb and would have taken too long to get there.
The Broncos are in a better position to succeed sooner than the Cardinals.
Not claiming this to be true. Just trying to cast a net far and wide for reasons! :)
So, what you are saying is that we went out really just with an inclination to see this great Moby Dick and then thought otherwise about doing anything else after we got up close, while Captain Ahab on the fanatical USS Walmart sailed past us hell bent on harpooning him no matter the outcome. I can see the birds now following the Bronco's every move this offseason :)
 

BritCard

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Closing a deal and getting the best deal are two different things. Bidwill wasn't willing to put out an offer to get the Payton deal done. He couldn't close the deal like he wasn't able to close Andy Reid or Payton Manning in recent history. Whether or not Payton was worth what Denver paid is a different argument. Denver played to win and Bidwill played to play.

The Broncos flew into Ann Arbor 3 days before try to get Harbaugh to change his mind. They did that after Quinn and Ryans turned them down.

Payton was literally their 4th choice and they were desperate and willing to pay anything. Yet they are the ones that "played to win"?

It's not a detriment to this Org that they had a value and stuck by it, and didn't allow a desperate bunch of new owners that already lost out on their 3 preferred options to make them overpay.
 

Jasper

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I think there was genuine interest between SP and MB. However after 7 hours both decided to step back. MB maybe because he was so expensive salary/compensation wise while SP backed out realizing this team sucks, will have lots of teething problems for the next few years and might be front office/owner friction.

It would have been nice for the team to hire SP and rebuild its reputation. But if it felt kinda iffy, might be better to just break it off instead of having more possible problems down the road and having to rebuild again in 2-3 years.
 

Chopper0080

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In real estate, it's all about the market and comparables. If I had a buyer who wanted a home for sale and it was known to have very little to no competition, but the seller wanted over market value, I wouldn't be the best agent if I told my buyer to meet their demands without negotiating. If my buyer is dead set on the home and there are no other options, then that's a different story. I'd still try to negotiate, but it would look differently.
I am happy you shared this. I feel like the Cardinals pursued Payton because there were not many comparables on the market. That is why they were willing to entertain draft compensation for him. In the end, Mike was not able to make a bid that got the job done. Now he is stuck settling for what is readily available on the market.
 

Chopper0080

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The Broncos flew into Ann Arbor 3 days before try to get Harbaugh to change his mind. They did that after Quinn and Ryans turned them down.

Payton was literally their 4th choice and they were desperate and willing to pay anything. Yet they are the ones that "played to win"?

It's not a detriment to this Org that they had a value and stuck by it, and didn't allow a desperate bunch of new owners that already lost out on their 3 preferred options to make them overpay.
Yes. They were not willing to head into the offseason without one of those 4 regardless of cost and compensation. Cardinals were never in play for Harbaugh, got denied by both Quinn and Ryans as well, and then couldn't close Payton while the Broncos did.
 

kerouac9

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Why spend a full day with a candidate when you already have an idea of what the compensation is going to be? I feel like this is a huge reach.

You don't go to test drive a Ferrari if you only have the funds for a Camry.

You can if you just want to test drive a Ferrari.

Al Davis was famous for having wide-ranging candidate interviews because he felt like these candidates were telling him something about his organization and his competitors' organizations that can be useful.

I don't think that Michael Bidwill is as savvy as Al Davis was. That said, when you're working in essentially a cartel and you can flex on your competition to get intelligence you might not otherwise be able to get, I don't might going through this process.

Especially if Michael was able to learn something eventually about some of these other coaches that he didn't know before.
 

MadCardDisease

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I don't think that Michael Bidwill is as savvy as Al Davis was.
Which Al Davis though?

Al Davis from the 60s, 70s and 80s?
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Or


Al Davis from the 90s and 00s

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kerouac9

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Which Al Davis though?

Al Davis from the 60s, 70s and 80s?
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Or


Al Davis from the 90s and 00s

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Neither. I’m not sure Michael has more savvy than Al Davis at this moment.
 
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