Graves does good job

[40yearfan]

I remember reading in one of the threads on here how Green has almost totally decimated the team Graves put together and extended contracts on. The inference was that Graves hadn't done a very good job and Green was cleaning house. I don't think that's the case and here's my reasons why.

Graves was using input from McGinnis and his staff in drafting and resigning veteran players. Extending Gilmore's contract was certainly suggested by Sullivan and we all know that MAC had his favorites who played irregardless of skill or performance. A lot of what Graves did pre-Green was influenced by the former coaching staff.

When Green arrived and started comparing the talent level, he realized the situation and the "country club" atmosphere that prevailed in the locker room and realized drastic measures would have to be taken to put this club into a "win at all costs" mode. Anyone who wasn't willing to buy into his new system 100% would be expendable. To accomplish this, he would have to cut and cut deep. Top that off with implementing a different defensive scheme that would require more speed than bulk and you have the makings of a lot of personnel changes.

The point I'm am trying to make is that Graves really didn't do such a bad job. By working with the former coaching staff, some mistakes were made, but as time wears on, they will be rectified. The one GREAT thing Graves did do was to get the veterans resigned at a reasonable cost and get our cap situation into a very healthy status. If he can get Boldin's contract re-worked this fall and still keep us cap friendly, there's no reason this team can't turn into a Philidelphia type team that's alway competitive and always has plenty of cap space.

 

[maddogkf]

Good points.

 

[seesred]

I think he did okay, however IMO a stronger man would have taken Suggs! In the long run our two guys might do very well especially Johnson, but Suggs will be a super star.

GBR
40

 

[azdad1978]

At least now Graves have a head coach that can evaluate talent and know what he is doing IMO.

 

[Sandan]

Exactly, who do you think was the primary talent evluator here last year ? The coaching staff. In watching the way Green & Graves interact I have a suggestion as to what might be the process now.

Now this is a guess on my part but ...

Its obvious they like each other. Rod comes out he talks to Jo and I then hurries off to be with Denny. I think what we have there is a team (ie Rod & Denny) and I think their influence overlaps.

Sure Coach Green does the coaching and Rod Graves watches the cap but I think both men take a keen interest in the primary area of the other, Rod certainly takes a real interest in the coaching and I suspect Denny takes an interest in how personael moves aaffect the cap.

In the middle (player selection) I think they both cooperate as it requires both disiplines and it requires that each understand the others area.

These guys seem like they really appreciate each other so I think 40 is correct and I do not think we will have a repeat.

 

[john h]

At least now Graves have a head coach that can evaluate talent and know what he is doing IMO.

How many of us thought things would really change when Buddy came to town. I remember him commenting something to the effect Garrison Hearst was not tough enough and good bye Garrison. I sure hope Dennis is really the answer we all hope for. He is talking the talk we will soon see if he is walking the walk.

 

[azdad1978]

Lets see what DG can do this year before we doubt him.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

hogwash. a gm is supposed to make good moves, not just merely cowtow to the head coach. to wash him of any blame b/c of mac is ridiculous. i think we ARE seeing denny undoing a lot of the mistakes rod made last year. thank god for that! you guys all love who is here at the moment and then lay the blame on 'em when they leave. when rod leaves he'll be to blame so that we can continue to love whomever is currently employed. it's ridiculous.

denny said he was skeptical of a lot of the resignings last year and is openly critical of the draft (otherwise why would we have drafted ANOTHER WR in the first and signed a passrusher . . . hmm . . . ). rod sucked last year. admit, get over it, and move on. i do think he will be a good buddy for denny though.

 

[Sandan]

I think that is my point Ouchie.

We don't know what happen last year, I do know that Rod did not spend the time with Mac he does with Denny, why who knows but I think it is a good thing.

 

[Duckjake]

It's funny reading these things about McGinnis. They are the same things people said about Tobin when McGinnis took over.

I would like to know who actually made the call on letting go all the starting wide receivers, what I consider one of the strangest moves ever made by an NFL franchise, before I'd let Graves and the rest of the front office off the hook for last season's debacle.

 

[AzCards21]

It sounds to me like the largest difference between this season and last is that it's a team mentality.

A team isn't made up of just the players. It has to extend to the coaching staff and the front office personel. From Nidan's reports it would appear that Graves and Mac had some issues at some level and were unable to work together as a team. If the coach and gm can't work together for a common goal the players will be effected.

It would appear to me that M. Bidwill, Graves and Green are all working together for the common good of the team. And more importantly they are all in agreement about what needs to happen and how to get there. For some reason the comeradery(sp) wasn't there in the Mac years, at least in the last year.

Let's hope it works.

 

[Skkorpion]

Hey look. Graves sucks. Everything that is wrong is his fault. He had nothing to do with anything good.

 

[maddogkf]

Hey look. Graves sucks. Everything that is wrong is his fault. He had nothing to do with anything good.

are you being sarcastic?

 

[jf-08]

Hey look. Graves sucks. Everything that is wrong is his fault. He had nothing to do with anything good.

Good gawd, Skkorp.

What the hell does this mean?

Are you serious about this?

 

[Duckjake]

Hey look. Graves sucks. Everything that is wrong is his fault. He had nothing to do with anything good.

Funny. But other than drafting Q nothing good happened last season unless I happened to be at the game. So why should I give Graves credit for my hard work in driving 2000 miles rountrip just so we could teach the Vikings fans not to come to our "house".

 

[Skkorpion]

Good gawd, Skkorp.

What the hell does this mean?

Are you serious about this?

Just saving the Graves haters 521 posts.

Without Graves, Denny Green doesn't come here. Guaranteed.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Without Graves, Denny Green doesn't come here. Guaranteed.

Ditto!

 

[jf-08]

Just saving the Graves haters 521 posts.

Without Graves, Denny Green doesn't come here. Guaranteed.

good to hear that. you had me worried for a second.

i think Graves can be a good GM with Green on his side. I just think Mac & RG were outmatched by the rest of the league.

 

[azdad1978]

Just saving the Graves haters 521 posts.

Without Graves, Denny Green doesn't come here. Guaranteed.

Thats good to hear skkorp

 

[maddogkf]

Just saving the Graves haters 521 posts.

Without Graves, Denny Green doesn't come here. Guaranteed.

You crack me up.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Just saving the Graves haters 521 posts.

Without Graves, Denny Green doesn't come here. Guaranteed.

i'm not sure if i'm considered a graves hater or . . . ulp . . . a realist (like i was last year when i was lambasted for lambasting a bad team that proved me right [pat on the back]). but regardless, i credit him for being at the reigns when the org started to do some forward-thinking stuff (like the injury waivers, and some fancy contract provisions), and if he is THE reason denny's here, then he gets more kudos. but i think we have EVERY reason to be skeptical of a man who botched the trade, and resigned players that denny doesn't value, and misjudged the june 1 cuts, and thought AS OUR TALENT EVALUATOR, that we had a playoff roster. he gets no free pass. that's ridiculous.

 

[JeffGollin]

That Graves was instrumental in getting Denny here is a sound point.

That the Cardinals have made a bunch of moves that appear to undo at least some of the later moves of the previous coaching regime is also, I think, a valid point. Equally valid is to wonder how these decisions were made, by whom and why. (That's what fans do).

Raising the issue doesn't necessarily imply "hating" either Rod or Denny. It is what it is - noting something of interest and wondering out loud what's behind it.

 

[Redheart]

My perception...

...was that Graves was never really comfortable with Mac. Remember that Graves got his job AFTER Mac got his. Fergy gave Mac his chance and that cost Fergy HIS job.

To his credit, I think Graves did try to work with Mac and accordingly, signed and supported the directions that Mac and his coaches wanted to go. What else could he do? Graves was not hired to be the Head Coach AND General Manager. He may not have liked it, but as long as Bidwill supported Mac, Graves had to try and make Mac's vision of the Cardinal work. Too bad Mac could not see with anything but his heart.

Also to Graves' credit, when the first clear window presented itself to pull the trigger on Mac and get his own choice in for Head Coach, he did. And right now, it looks like it was an OUTSTANDING choice. A REAL Head Coach, not a real Head Case.

Face it, for all the rah-rah and loveable personality, Mac did not have what it took. Graves choose a Head Coach with a proven record that is in the "elite" category. What do you want from your GM?

Finally, it was real wise of Graves to bring in the caliber of Green as a Head Coach, because the next big head to roll is his...Green may lose his job if he does not come through, but for damned sure Graves will lead him out the door. Does Graves kiss up to Green? He should, Green holds his future in his hands.

 

[azdad1978]

...was that Graves was never really comfortable with Mac. Remember that Graves got his job AFTER Mac got his. Fergy gave Mac his chance and that cost Fergy HIS job.

To his credit, I think Graves did try to work with Mac and accordingly, signed and supported the directions that Mac and his coaches wanted to go. What else could he do? Graves was not hired to be the Head Coach AND General Manager. He may not have liked it, but as long as Bidwill supported Mac, Graves had to try and make Mac's vision of the Cardinal work. Too bad Mac could not see with anything but his heart.

Also to Graves' credit, when the first clear window presented itself to pull the trigger on Mac and get his own choice in for Head Coach, he did. And right now, it looks like it was an OUTSTANDING choice. A REAL Head Coach, not a real Head Case.

Face it, for all the rah-rah and loveable personality, Mac did not have what it took. Graves choose a Head Coach with a proven record that is in the "elite" category. What do you want from your GM?

Finally, it was real wise of Graves to bring in the caliber of Green as a Head Coach, because the next big head to roll is his...Green may lose his job if he does not come through, but for damned sure Graves will lead him out the door. Does Graves kiss up to Green? He should, Green holds his future in his hands.

 

[MadCardDisease]

and resigned players that denny doesn't value

Which players are those???