Fine, I'm fine with Francis Mauigoa

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I will admit, he looks like he could be a real special back. He's just so quick, fast, elusive and hard to tackle. He's not a pile mover, but he's strong. His really special trait is his ability to slide off tacklers, he's incredibly slippery, guys like also tend to avoid injury as well.

I'm really torn. I think Bailey is going to be a multi time Pro Bowler (unless he's a jerk), but I will contest that Love might be the single best player in this draft. Mendoza does have some bust factor because he doesn't show NFL QB play on film, but other QBs have been in the same situation and ended up being good.

I'm with you that a safety isn't worth a #3 unless its an all time great. I tend to want Mauigoa because I think he's going to be good and I think he's a really safe pick who makes the entire offense better.

I’m good with all this. The reality is I wouldn’t hate mauigoa. I’d just prefer him in a trade down. It just sticks in my craw that we earned the third pick and there isn’t a Joe Thomas.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

If true, this is changes the landscape for me. This increases the chance of a trade down IMO.

Yeah that clouds my desire.

 

[oaken1]

The Saints were a bad team that tried to win every game in a bad division and are picking 8th. It's a myth that you have to make moves to put your team at a disadvantage to lose games. The Cardinals can likely do everything they can to win games and still end up in the top 10 because the roster and QB position are so bad. Trying to game the system just makes the hole you have to climb out of deeper.

Agree.
But if Bailey is gone...and they ain't picking Love... then there is nobody on the board worthy of 3.
So it's either reach...or trade back...and the quality difference is not that significant past the first few guys...so why not get the same quality player at 12...and add to our opportunity next year at the same time.
The logic is simple and sound.
It's only not sound if you happened to watch too much tape and convinced yourself one of these tackles is worth a top 5 pick. They aint.

 

[Krangodnzr]

So your argument is the bengals failed due to Chase? Man, your arguments on this topic are pretty substandard for you, krang. You’re too bought into your position and it’s causing you to make poor arguments.

I'm actually not bought into ANY argument. No one is making a compelling argument for drafting Love other than "he's an exciting playerz!!!!" Yes he's a good player, but all of these guys we are talking about at the top of the draft are good players.

I am CLEARLY not making the argument that the Bengals failed due to Chase. Read what I wrote again....they failed to win the Super Bowl because they couldn't protect Joe Burrow and they clearly couldn't stop the edge rush from getting to Burrow. A good tackle with just a league average WR1 might have been the difference for them because of how bad their pass protection was in that game.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Joe Thomas definitely screamed spectacular

Your opinion of love doesn’t match a significant number of scouting services.

Joe Thomas definitely screamed spectacular.

That's insane.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I’m shocked you’re interested in the looks like Tarzan plays like Jane styles.

Learning to live with ISN'T interested. I could learn to live with it, convince myself that at least he's supposedly really good.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I’m good with all this. The reality is I wouldn’t hate mauigoa. I’d just prefer him in a trade down. It just sticks in my craw that we earned the third pick and there isn’t a Joe Thomas.

You draft in the draft in front of you. Saying Player A isn't worth a #3 draft because player B went there 15 years ago isn't relevant when the draft in front of you has been rated as only having 10 true first rounders by some scouts.

 

[Denny Green Fan]

They’ll still be massively outgunned by the Jets and others.

You dont get better by opting out of improving

Rumor has it Dallas wants to keep 20 because they don't have a 2nd round pick.
I would insist on...
Dallas 12, 20 and 2027 first..
For the Cardinals 3 and 34.

It's not an awesome trade for us..Basically trading back with 3 to move up with 34...but with the 2027 first as a kicker. But I would do it in order to get the value next year.

That’s their problem they dont have a second lol it has to be 12 …20 and a future one….

 

[Denny Green Fan]

Agree.
But if Bailey is gone...and they ain't picking Love... then there is nobody on the board worthy of 3.
So it's either reach...or trade back...and the quality difference is not that significant past the first few guys...so why not get the same quality player at 12...and add to our opportunity next year at the same time.
The logic is simple and sound.
It's only not sound if you happened to watch too much tape and convinced yourself one of these tackles is worth a top 5 pick. They aint.

In this particular draft I would be fine with the pick…he would blow open holes wide enough for me and you to run through…plus a great leader and physical…but I have gave up on Monti drafting him at 3 and if we trade down to 12 we will lose him….wont get past Miami….if we stay at 3 and the jets take Bailey it’s gonna be Reese if we get stuck at 3…. That’s my guess… then Simpson or the Arizona state tackle at 34…. ( we get the northwestern tackle at 65 if we go Simpson at 34…..I could live with these three and be happy bout it….go cards!!!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You draft in the draft in front of you. Saying Player A isn't worth a #3 draft because player B went there 15 years ago isn't relevant when the draft in front of you has been rated as only having 10 true first rounders by some scouts.

Correct and the draft in front of us only has three maybe four studs. A RB, a S, Bailey and a QB we have no ability to obtain.

 

[DVontel]

A good tackle with just a league average WR1 might have been the difference for them because of how bad their pass protection was in that game.

They probably don’t even make the SB without Chase honestly.

 

[Krangodnzr]

They probably don’t even make the SB without Chase honestly.

I'd argue that Burrow is the real brilliance on that offense..yes Chase is great too, but put a decent WR opposite Higgins and a better OT, and I think they cook.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Correct and the draft in front of us only has three maybe four studs. A RB, a S, Bailey and a QB we have no ability to obtain.

Brandon Thorn who is largely considered the pre-eminent draft guru on OL calls Mauigoa a blue chip player.

I think a lot of you guys are vastly underrating how good Mauigoa was during his career at Miami. He started as a doggone freshman. He's been a first team All American. And his tape is REALLY good.

Like we've demonstrated, Zierlein places him roughly in the same spot as Joe Alt, and if you remember correctly, I actually considered him for the Cardinals when he came out (though I ultimately wanted Odunze). I was an anti-Harrison guy because I thought (100% correct on) he wasn't physical enough.

One standout trait that makes him very appealing is that scouts consistently describe him as a tone setter. He's nasty, physical and loves to hit people. I'm tired of pretty boy football and want the Cardinals to draft tough guys, not pretty boy juke and jive RBs who aren't super physical.

 

[DVontel]

I'd argue that Burrow is the real brilliance on that offense..yes Chase is great too, but put a decent WR opposite Higgins and a better OT, and I think they cook.

Sure, but Chase is an elite player. A triple crown winner.

Now that I really think about it, Cincy most likely doesn’t even make the playoffs, let alone the SB, if they didn’t draft Chase. I forgot they didn’t clinch a playoff berth until the next to the last game of the season, a game where Chase went off with 266 yards & 3 TDs.

 

[Solar7]

Brandon Thorn who is largely considered the pre-eminent draft guru on OL calls Mauigoa a blue chip player.

I think a lot of you guys are vastly underrating how good Mauigoa was during his career at Miami. He started as a doggone freshman. He's been a first team All American. And his tape is REALLY good.

Like we've demonstrated, Zierlein places him roughly in the same spot as Joe Alt, and if you remember correctly, I actually considered him for the Cardinals when he came out (though I ultimately wanted Odunze). I was an anti-Harrison guy because I thought (100% correct on) he wasn't physical enough.

One standout trait that makes him very appealing is that scouts consistently describe him as a tone setter. He's nasty, physical and loves to hit people. I'm tired of pretty boy football and want the Cardinals to draft tough guys, not pretty boy juke and jive RBs who aren't super physical.

I'm just not seeing the mainstream love for Mauigoa that you are, outside of Zierlein (and now I guess Thorn, who I'm not familiar with). Every time I see an expert talk about him, they kinda hemm and haww, say he's probably the best in this draft, place him somewhere near the middle of the talent pool, and no one seems to have true excitement for him.

As I've said, I don't have the time to put on every snap he's ever taken and judge entirely for myself, also, I don't know if I'm a perfect OL talent evaluator. But the consensus just doesn't seem to be there that this is some can't miss talent.

 

[Zalixar]

Sure, but Chase is an elite player. A triple crown winner.

Now that I really think about it, Cincy most likely doesn’t even make the playoffs, let alone the SB, if they didn’t draft Chase. I forgot they didn’t clinch a playoff berth until the next to the last game of the season, a game where Chase went off with 266 yards & 3 TDs.

Burrow is top tier, but Chase made big time plays time after time. I like Stafford via Lions days, but really wish Bengals won it that year.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I'm just not seeing the mainstream love for Mauigoa that you are, outside of Zierlein (and now I guess Thorn, who I'm not familiar with). Every time I see an expert talk about him, they kinda hemm and haww, say he's probably the best in this draft, place him somewhere near the middle of the talent pool, and no one seems to have true excitement for him.

As I've said, I don't have the time to put on every snap he's ever taken and judge entirely for myself, also, I don't know if I'm a perfect OL talent evaluator. But the consensus just doesn't seem to be there that this is some can't miss talent.

No one really gets excited about a RT, but good teams are built around tough guys like him with pedigree.

Dude started every game in his career at a blue blood program and was pretty dominant, especially in the run game. He would be considered an absolute elite prospect (best in the draft and maybe best in awhile) if he was an elite pass protector..he's merely good.

 

[Chopper0080]

I'm just not seeing the mainstream love for Mauigoa that you are, outside of Zierlein (and now I guess Thorn, who I'm not familiar with). Every time I see an expert talk about him, they kinda hemm and haww, say he's probably the best in this draft, place him somewhere near the middle of the talent pool, and no one seems to have true excitement for him.

As I've said, I don't have the time to put on every snap he's ever taken and judge entirely for myself, also, I don't know if I'm a perfect OL talent evaluator. But the consensus just doesn't seem to be there that this is some can't miss talent.

No one loved Wirfs who carried similar narratives which is why he was picked in the teens. OL in general is a boring position to draft, and RTs even more.

Joe Thomas was drafted 18 years ago. If he is your example of a top OL prospect, you probably won't draft one high because he is rare.

 

[Chopper0080]

The success rate for OTs drafted in the top 10 is pretty good. Especially the first one selected. Kinda directly opposite of RBs taken in the top 10. Just information.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

No one really gets excited about a RT, but good teams are built around tough guys like him with pedigree.

Dude started every game in his career at a blue blood program and was pretty dominant, especially in the run game. He would be considered an absolute elite prospect (best in the draft and maybe best in awhile) if he was an elite pass protector..he's merely good.

good teams are also built without taking a RT at #3 in the draft. Plus, If I was drafting a RT at 3, he'd have to be elite at everything. Pass protection being "merely good" is unacceptable. Being a dominant run blocker is all well and good but if the RT needed a little help in the run game, that's why Tip Reiman is on the team.

And can we please stop with the Wirfs and Sewell comps. Neither went top 5 and both were drafted to be LTOF not a RT. They were there because the Lions and Bucs had capable LT's on their roster. Mauigoa would be drafted to be a RT, a severe waste of a top 3 pick.

 

[kerouac9]

The success rate for OTs drafted in the top 10 is pretty good. Especially the first one selected. Kinda directly opposite of RBs taken in the top 10. Just information.

What does “success” mean here? A hit on a top WR is a multi-pro bowler and the face of your franchise—a reason fans buy tickets.

A successful OT selection means you’re not really worrying about the position for 4-8 seasons.

 

[Chopper0080]

What does “success” mean here? A hit on a top WR is a multi-pro bowler and the face of your franchise—a reason fans buy tickets.

A successful OT selection means you’re not really worrying about the position for 4-8 seasons.

I guess I wasn't really thinking about a specific metric. 2nd contract. Starter. Darnell Wright has been a good player. Andrew Thomas a good player. Charles Cross good. Sewell good. Stanley good. Conklin was good. Jake Matthews was good. PJJ is ok.

 

[Chopper0080]

I mean...is Drake London a success to you? Garrett Wilson? Waddle? D Smith?

 

[Solar7]

I mean...is Drake London a success to you? Garrett Wilson? Waddle? D Smith?

Almost all of them should be considered successes and the only reason they wouldn't be considered successes is how the teams managed their QB situations.

 

[kerouac9]

I mean...is Drake London a success to you? Garrett Wilson? Waddle? D Smith?

I consider them all to be at least as successful as PJJ so far.

OL (especially highly draft OL) are just different. A lot of developed players are extended because teams understand the difference between top 12 and top 6 at the position is fairly negligible.

Yes “good player” with the sixth overall pick who doesn’t put up stats (because there aren’t any) won’t get you fired. But you have to get your best players from somewhere.