Draft - one week out - what do the Cardinals do with #4?

What do the Cards do with #4

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TigToad

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I hate to go off topic but I don’t want to start a new thread either.

What’s the best/cheapest current way to watch the draft. I don’t currently have nfl network or espn but know I’d need to get them
 

oaken1

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I hate to go off topic but I don’t want to start a new thread either.

What’s the best/cheapest current way to watch the draft. I don’t currently have nfl network or espn but know I’d need to get them
Might be able to get it with the dofustream app
 

kerouac9

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I hate to go off topic but I don’t want to start a new thread either.

What’s the best/cheapest current way to watch the draft. I don’t currently have nfl network or espn but know I’d need to get them
It’s broadcast on ABC. Also they’ve live-streamed it on the NFL app the past few years.
 

GimmedaBall

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Yada, yada, yada is the perfect way to summarize your KM hate.
I don't 'hate' KM.

I've watched his performance the last couple of years and in my opinion, he is not going to take us anywhere. On a separate thread, Harry listed the parts of KM's game that KM needs to improve going into 2024. Guess what---it is the same list of flaws in his game from day 1 and here we are going into his 5th year. He succeeded in college and to a limited degree here in the pros with those flaws---they are now hard-wired into who he is as a player. He has arrived at his level of incompetence.

On a recent streaming channel (I think it was Pluto) they had a replay of a college game with KM vs Tua. I could not see any difference between his play in the college game and his play now as a pro.

The sooner we acknowledge that the sooner we can move on to the next hope for a QBOTF. No hate, just what my eyes are telling me about his play.

Fans make that evaluation all the time with every other position player---just look at the guys who left via FA or those who were cut. Not much hand-wringing over Moore, Hollywood, DJ, etc. The same spotlight of evaluation needs to shine on KM.
 

GimmedaBall

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Dude... I was FIVE!!
Petty thieves and cat burglars, like serial killers, start on their destiny early in life. You should have taken advantage of being held back 3 times in first grade. Didn't you realize you were the biggest one on the little kid's side of the playground? You were so big, when you stepped aboard that little yellow bus, the other kids thought you were a new driver. Even more so when you forgot to shave that morning. You could have collected all the baseball cards, marbles, Twinkies, milk money, and comic books you would ever need. Then you could show them off to the others here who live in their vans down by the River.
 

GimmedaBall

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I hate to go off topic but I don’t want to start a new thread either.

What’s the best/cheapest current way to watch the draft. I don’t currently have nfl network or espn but know I’d need to get them
You can sign up for the 'free trial' period on some of the different streaming channels. Just remember to cancel your membership at the end of the trial period or else you will be automatically billed going forward.

You can channel hop from free trial to free trial and begin your career as a petty thief and cat burglar. Get your 5-year-old to show you how.
 

Chris_Sanders

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Petty thieves and cat burglars, like serial killers, start on their destiny early in life. You should have taken advantage of being held back 3 times in first grade. Didn't you realize you were the biggest one on the little kid's side of the playground? You were so big, when you stepped aboard that little yellow bus, the other kids thought you were a new driver. Even more so when you forgot to shave that morning. You could have collected all the baseball cards, marbles, Twinkies, milk money, and comic books you would ever need. Then you could show them off to the others here who live in their vans down by the River.

Alright I am just about done with your troll posting. This is your token pre warming
 

The6

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I don't 'hate' KM.

I've watched his performance the last couple of years and in my opinion, he is not going to take us anywhere. On a separate thread, Harry listed the parts of KM's game that KM needs to improve going into 2024. Guess what---it is the same list of flaws in his game from day 1 and here we are going into his 5th year. He succeeded in college and to a limited degree here in the pros with those flaws---they are now hard-wired into who he is as a player. He has arrived at his level of incompetence.

On a recent streaming channel (I think it was Pluto) they had a replay of a college game with KM vs Tua. I could not see any difference between his play in the college game and his play now as a pro.

The sooner we acknowledge that the sooner we can move on to the next hope for a QBOTF. No hate, just what my eyes are telling me about his play.

Fans make that evaluation all the time with every other position player---just look at the guys who left via FA or those who were cut. Not much hand-wringing over Moore, Hollywood, DJ, etc. The same spotlight of evaluation needs to shine on KM.
You're correct. He's another bad pick by the former GM. I say draft a QB without question.
 

QuebecCard

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I don't 'hate' KM.

I've watched his performance the last couple of years and in my opinion, he is not going to take us anywhere. On a separate thread, Harry listed the parts of KM's game that KM needs to improve going into 2024. Guess what---it is the same list of flaws in his game from day 1 and here we are going into his 5th year. He succeeded in college and to a limited degree here in the pros with those flaws---they are now hard-wired into who he is as a player. He has arrived at his level of incompetence.

On a recent streaming channel (I think it was Pluto) they had a replay of a college game with KM vs Tua. I could not see any difference between his play in the college game and his play now as a pro.

The sooner we acknowledge that the sooner we can move on to the next hope for a QBOTF. No hate, just what my eyes are telling me about his play.

Fans make that evaluation all the time with every other position player---just look at the guys who left via FA or those who were cut. Not much hand-wringing over Moore, Hollywood, DJ, etc. The same spotlight of evaluation needs to shine on KM.

None is so blind as he who refuses to see.

You refuse to acknowledge that KM's adaptation to the Petzing offence, where he's not required to play hero ball, is a positive step forward. Coming off of a severe injury, without the benefit of an offseason and substandard support, KM managed a top-10 offence over 8 starts.
 

THESMEL

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Larry served us well, what would you trade Larry for? This kid could be better, expected hof in position of need.
Texans did great picking the 2 best players in last years draft, they won that trade!
Nobody seems to mention that.
 

GimmedaBall

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KM managed a top-10 offence over 8 starts.
Where did you find these stats for KM in 2023?

Card stats for 2023 are confounded by the fact that Dobbs and KM both contributed to the totals with Tune playing one game (when KM decided he didn't want to face a top D).

I surfed through the pro-football reference stats for 2023 and could not find any numbers that suggest the Cards had a top-ten offense over KM's 8 starts. For the year, the Cards had the 31st rated scoring offense. Dobbs had a better QB rating for the season than KM with Dobbs at 20 and KM at 23. We did have the 4th highest-rated running game but even that was not enough to get us higher than 31 in scoring offense.

I'll be glad to 'see' these numbers that you claim for KM and his top-10 offense if you can provide them for me.

This Aug. 2023 has KM as a 'solid starting QB' and ranked in the same tier and Tua, Carr, Dak and gives a balanced pro-con look at his status last year. His 3-5 record when he came back in and finished off 2023 did nothing (for me) to move the needle that he is 'the guy' who is going to make a push into the playoffs and beyond. That's my opinion.


PS Dobbs play earned him a back-up QB role with the 49ers. He will see the SB before the Cards and KM.
 

GimmedaBall

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Texans did great picking the 2 best players in last years draft, they won that trade!
Nobody seems to mention that.
I think the jury is still out on that trade. We still get to make our 2024 choices with the 1st and 3rd picks we got from the Texans. Also, our OT played out of position at RT and we may need to wait to see how his change of position and/or eventual return to LT works.

I agree that between Stroud and Anderson, the Texans have gone a long way to dramatically improving their team with cornerstone players for both the O and D. The Texans have set a high bar for teams looking for a turnaround in a short time. HC Ryans did a great job and Stroud looks like a QB who will be leading the Texans for some time. After the trade, plenty of Card fans were drooling over the prospect of Texas having the #1 or #2 pick this year as they worked through their rebuild. We knew we were going to be 'bad' as KM was looking to be out for a better part of 2023. It would have been sweet to have two picks in the top five. Now there's some trade fodder.

We give Monti a lot of credit for his wheeling and dealing but the Texans worked that trade to perfection. If they had taken Anderson first, the Cards would have been open for business on Stroud. Instead, they went with Stroud and then made the move for Anderson

 

football karma

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Yes. This thread has to wait until... June? May is about bickering about this or that fifth-round pick.

Please save these comments for 45 days.
i think Monti does something thursday that will light the board up through the summer

if he doesnt, May and June are for the board to fall in love with a 3rd day pick who "has really turned heads in mini-camp" and is looking like "the steal of the draft" (postscript: will be put on IR in training camp, never heard from again. )

the next Kyler thread is when he goes 2 for 6 in his first pre season game
 

Krangodnzr

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Where did you find these stats for KM in 2023?

Card stats for 2023 are confounded by the fact that Dobbs and KM both contributed to the totals with Tune playing one game (when KM decided he didn't want to face a top D).

I surfed through the pro-football reference stats for 2023 and could not find any numbers that suggest the Cards had a top-ten offense over KM's 8 starts. For the year, the Cards had the 31st rated scoring offense. Dobbs had a better QB rating for the season than KM with Dobbs at 20 and KM at 23. We did have the 4th highest-rated running game but even that was not enough to get us higher than 31 in scoring offense.

I'll be glad to 'see' these numbers that you claim for KM and his top-10 offense if you can provide them for me.

This Aug. 2023 has KM as a 'solid starting QB' and ranked in the same tier and Tua, Carr, Dak and gives a balanced pro-con look at his status last year. His 3-5 record when he came back in and finished off 2023 did nothing (for me) to move the needle that he is 'the guy' who is going to make a push into the playoffs and beyond. That's my opinion.


PS Dobbs play earned him a back-up QB role with the 49ers. He will see the SB before the Cards and KM.
FYI as a board we all agreed to discuss Kyler Murray in the Kyler Murray threads (there are a few). You have essentially hijacked a thread and attempted to change the topic of the thread.

You have also added nothing new; we essentially had this conversation all last off-season and it became a slightly poisonous, but also circular argument.

Feel free to continue to be rude, now that you have been advised on how the group culture of this board works. Or you can do the right thing within the confines of the group culture, and post your (unoriginal) thoughts on Kyler Murray.
 

kerouac9

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i think Monti does something thursday that will light the board up through the summer

if he doesnt, May and June are for the board to fall in love with a 3rd day pick who "has really turned heads in mini-camp" and is looking like "the steal of the draft" (postscript: will be put on IR in training camp, never heard from again. )

the next Kyler thread is when he goes 2 for 6 in his first pre season game
Can I recommend a Clayton Tune vs Desmond Ridder QB controversy?
 

BritCard

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Here are my thoughts.

I think MONTI wants his cake and eat it too, so to speak.

In other words, a move down is contingent on a deal with the LACs to return to #5 and select MHJ.

If he traded with the GIANTS for, let's say, a two in 2024 and a two in 2025, he'd be willing to give the Chargers a #3 (maybe a #2) in this year's draft to move up one spot. And if he traded with the Vikings for #11, #23 and a first in 2025, he'd be willing to give up #11, #27 and, let's say, #104 to get up to #5.

In the first case, the CARDS net two second-round drafts from the GIANTS, but if the price to move up to #5 is a second-rounder this year, the CARDS have netted an extra #2 in 2025.

In the second, they've improved their second selection in the first round by four spots and garnered an extra first-round pick in 2025.

If the LACs can't be convinced in advance, MONTI selects MHJ at #4.

P.S. I believe that Mike Bidwill wants his FITZ of the future, and that's MHJ.

Same.

I think this makes the Giants trade unlikely least likely because the value for the Chargers to move back one spot is minimal and I think they would rather draft MHJ, I just don;t see anyone drafting Nabers over MHJ. I think the Cards only make the Giants trade is they love Odunze.

But with the big trades II agree they will likely only make those moves if they have a trade up partner for MHJ (or possibly Odunze).

On saying all that I don't think it's out of the question that the FO see great value in Mitchell or Thomas further back and take DL or Edge in the early teens and make a small trade up to the low twenties for WR.

Often mock drafts give people a false sense of what is going to happen and we forget nothing that has happened in the draft media universe for the past 4 months is remotely real.
 

Krangodnzr

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Same.

I think this makes the Giants trade unlikely least likely because the value for the Chargers to move back one spot is minimal and I think they would rather draft MHJ, I just don;t see anyone drafting Nabers over MHJ. I think the Cards only make the Giants trade is they love Odunze.

But with the big trades II agree they will likely only make those moves if they have a trade up partner for MHJ (or possibly Odunze).

On saying all that I don't think it's out of the question that the FO see great value in Mitchell or Thomas further back and take DL or Edge in the early teens and make a small trade up to the low twenties for WR.

Often mock drafts give people a false sense of what is going to happen and we forget nothing that has happened in the draft media universe for the past 4 months is remotely real.
If the Cardinals are in love with one particular receiver, trading with the Giants is a dumb idea.

You only make this move if you have all three receivers pretty evenly.

I certainly do, so I would be open to ideas because if MHJ is gone, I'm happy with Odunze or Nabers.
 

Fitz4Ever

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I really think our best option at this point is to get as much as possible out of Minny. They are far enough down at #11 where they know they will have to give up a haul, and there is no chance of the 4th QB falling to them. So they are in deal or miss out mode.

We have more than enough draft capital as it stands to move up and take one of the top 3 WR's. Heck, we could take 2 of the top 3 WR's if we wanted too.

At the very least, we should be able to get #11, #23, 2025 1st, and 2025 3rd....maybe more, and maybe a young vet as well.

That would leave us with #11, #23, #27, #35, #66, #71, #90, #104 + 2 2025 firsts, and 2 2025 3rd rounders.

Were talking 3961 points on the draft chart this year...thats enough to go up and get MHJ AND Oduzne/Nabers....and still have a boatload of draft capital next year.

Im not saying we should do that (although it would be pretty awesome)..but my point is that a trade down with Minny doesnt take us out of the running for anyone....it only adds to the firepower we have to improve the team over the next 2 years.
 

GimmedaBall

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FYI as a board we all agreed to discuss Kyler Murray in the Kyler Murray threads (there are a few). You have essentially hijacked a thread and attempted to change the topic of the thread.
The thread title presented the question of ‘what to do at pick 4?’ My suggestion was to either go with MHJ or a QB if the staff evaluates that QB as a better match for the Cards. My response fits within the thread title—that’s what I would like to do. As someone who labels himself as ‘Captain of Team Murray’ I can see why that suggestion would upset you. Get over it and beam yourself down, Captain. It is not about you. It is about getting the right player at pick #4. My choice just happens to be a new QB with that high pick. I didn’t hijack the thread—I answered the question.

You have also added nothing new; we essentially had this conversation all last off-season and it became a slightly poisonous, but also circular argument.
How did you possibly have a conversation last off-season about what to do with pick #4 this draft period? How did you know we would be at pick four? I have not seen any other comment about taking a QB at #4---pretty rude of you to label my suggestion as adding nothing new/original. I did see a proposal off this forum that the Cards trade KM to the Vikes and use pick #4 on JJ McCarthy---something similar to my suggestion.

QB is the single most single player in all of sports. It is bound to happen that conversations will cross over. Conversations veer off on every single thread topic as people free-associate and throw in various opinions. I looked over the ‘rules’ and didn’t see any formalized requirement that KM was off-limits on any thread that is not specifically about him. If you look over the forum rules, I think you will see that you are the one in violation with your scolding and condescending tone and attempt to censor me because my opinion is not to your liking. I am not on Team Murray while you have assigned yourself the title of Captain of Team Murray. If there is an unwritten requirement, it supports one of my comments that this forum is a closed system for the ‘old-timer poster click.’ If I get banned for this response, it will only go to reinforce that assertion.

As to being ‘rude’ I wonder what KM thinks of your avatar photo with his head pasted over some animal—is that a doe or a greyhound in that photo? Is that your headshot pasted over the person posed with the KM-animal hybrid? That photo is not just rude, it is bizarre. How did that avatar get past the monitors---a beheaded KM pasted onto the body of an animal? What are you getting at with that photo???
 
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