Devin Booker - What is being said

overseascardfan

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Yeah. I am wrapping my mind around this. Booker was rated higher by almost everyone and yet I and most posters are unhappy about it.

Booker is a shooter, he is 6-5. He played pg in HS so he can pass. He also seems to be a better defender than I first thought. So, what's not to love.

Bledsoe, Knight, Booker looks alot more balanced than Bledsoe, Knight, Goodwin

The criticism comes from posters like me who were hoping for a stretch 4 who could rebound. Booker is a great shooter, no doubt about that, but scouting reports say that he doesn't look like he does anything else as well.

At this point whatever, they need to start somewhere might as well be a shooter. If PHX can't land some quality FA's or swing a big trade or two we'll be picking a lot higher next year.
 

sunsfan88

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The criticism comes from posters like me who were hoping for a stretch 4 who could rebound. Booker is a great shooter, no doubt about that, but scouting reports say that he doesn't look like he does anything else as well.

At this point whatever, they need to start somewhere might as well be a shooter. If PHX can't land some quality FA's or swing a big trade or two we'll be picking a lot higher next year.

That's not a bad thing, we need to pick higher than repeatedly drafting at #13 or #14.
 

JS22

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Happy with the pick. Wanted WCS to drop, but that didn't happen. I was mixed on Kaminsky and glad that the Suns didn't give up any future picks or assets to move to #9.

Everyone compares Booker to Thompson but I'd lean towards Bradley Beal. Pure shooter who is a pretty solid - but not spectacular - all around player. Would be thrilled if he could reach the level of Beal, and eventually, Thompson.

For you nerds, check out this shot chart:

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Covert Rain

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Bledsoe / Booker

Bledsoe is a better defender and penetrator, both of which should help Booker.

Knight is a better compliment for Archie.

I personally like Knight/Booker better. When I looked at shot selection for the last full season of Brandon Knight with the Bucks, it appears he penetrated just as much as Bledsoe. After he came here he took more outside shots. Knight and Bledsoe also had almost the identical defensive per (Knight slightly better). Really I think it's basically 1 and 1A when it comes to those two guys.

Also, it appears the Suns have been dangling Bledsoe for weeks including the draft.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nba/post/_/id/4979/report-adande-says-bledsoe-not-a-franchise-type-guy
 
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JCSunsfan

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As we watch summer league, I am really interested in Booker. Because he is 6-6 and is a shooter, he has more potential in today's NBA than Archie. He seems to be more of what this team needs than Archie. I am not rooting for him over Archie, I am fine with whichever of the two shines. I just think that Booker is more likely.

He also seems to be able to have a significant contribution without dominating the basketball. Whenever the ball touches his hands something happens--quickly--he shot goes up, there is a quick move to the hoop, or he is a willing passer.

The kid also has personality. He will be very marketable if he is any good.

This is an interesting scouting video. It is not just highlights but shows some errors and defensive lapses as well.

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Mainstreet

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As we watch summer league, I am really interested in Booker. Because he is 6-6 and is a shooter, he has more potential in today's NBA than Archie. He seems to be more of what this team needs than Archie. I am not rooting for him over Archie, I am fine with whichever of the two shines. I just think that Booker is more likely.

He also seems to be able to have a significant contribution without dominating the basketball. Whenever the ball touches his hands something happens--quickly--he shot goes up, there is a quick move to the hoop, or he is a willing passer.

The kid also has personality. He will be very marketable if he is any good.

This is an interesting scouting video. It is not just highlights but shows some errors and defensive lapses as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtEGhemEJ0I

I really like how Booker sets up quickly for his shot and with that quick release, he should be hard to stop. Of course he is only 18 but I like what I see.
 

JCSunsfan

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I really like how Booker sets up quickly for his shot and with that quick release, he should be hard to stop. Of course he is only 18 but I like what I see.

Funny thing is that most 18 year olds have athleticism, but they really need work on their shot. It is very rare to have an 18 year old that shoots like this and the muscle memory and instict that is developed in that 16-19 year old range makes a huge difference.
 

sunsfan88

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I'm not rooting for Booker or Goodwin to shine....I'm rooting for them both to shine.

Both have different skill sets. Goodwin is more about drawing fouls and driving to the rim while Booker is about shooting.
 

Chaplin

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I'm not rooting for Booker or Goodwin to shine....I'm rooting for them both to shine.

Both have different skill sets. Goodwin is more about drawing fouls and driving to the rim while Booker is about shooting.

Except Booker certainly has room to grow in other areas, I'm not sure Goodwin is capable of expanding beyond what he already is.

I guess I'm in the minority in not really seeing the upside of Goodwin. He's had some chances and not taken advantage of them.
 

Chaz

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Except Booker certainly has room to grow in other areas, I'm not sure Goodwin is capable of expanding beyond what he already is.

I guess I'm in the minority in not really seeing the upside of Goodwin. He's had some chances and not taken advantage of them.
I don't know, he seems like he has the work ethic and he is so young.

I think they will be a good compliment to each other.
 

Phrazbit

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If you're a guard who can neither shoot or pass I just don't see how you're going to make it in the NBA. Goodwin is terrible at both and has shown little improvement. His one move is "bowling ball to the rim and pray for a bail-out call".

If Goodwin is going to make it he absolutely has to learn to shoot from the outside, I don't see him every becoming serviceable point guard. His skill set is better suited for the 2.
 

sunsfan88

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Except Booker certainly has room to grow in other areas, I'm not sure Goodwin is capable of expanding beyond what he already is.

I guess I'm in the minority in not really seeing the upside of Goodwin. He's had some chances and not taken advantage of them.

Goodwin's 20 years old, and showed promise his rookie season. Every coach and FO staff on the Suns also talks very highly about his work ethic. I think it's foolish to think that he can't grow in other areas. I don't think he will ever become a great shooter but I think he can become serviceable enough at least from the mid range area like DeRozan. He just needs to work on his ball handling and defense more (while continuing to practice shooting), I still think he's capable of turning into a good 2 in the NBA eventually.
 
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leclerc

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Christ, can't you see Goodwin's potential? Kid is 21 or something. Remember Joe Johnson and Finley. Sign him to a nice semi-cheap multi-year contract. Not saying he will be a starter any time soon but he offers more than other rotation two guards we've had lately.

He also outplayed Green last season so that's kind of taking advantage of his chances. I did not agree with Horny reducing his pt towards the end.

I was impressed by Bookers shooting form coming of screens and pulling up mid-range.
 
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JCSunsfan

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Christ, can't you see Goodwin's potential? Kid is 21 or something. Remember Joe Johnson and Finley. Sign him to a nice semi-cheap multi-year contract. Not saying he will be a starter any time soon but he offers more than other rotation two guards we've had lately.

He also outplayed Green last season so that's kind of taking advantage of his chances. I did not agree with Horny reducing his pt towards the end.

I was impressed by Bookers shooting form coming of screens and pulling up mid-range.

Both Joe Johnson and Finley were better at this point. Finley only dropped in the draft because his shooting stats dropped his senior year due to increased defensive pressure on him.

The problem with Archie is that he is the same freaking player he was two summers ago. He is young, but that is the problem. A player as young as he is should make LOTS of progress.
 

SirStefan32

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Both Joe Johnson and Finley were better at this point. Finley only dropped in the draft because his shooting stats dropped his senior year due to increased defensive pressure on him.

The problem with Archie is that he is the same freaking player he was two summers ago. He is young, but that is the problem. A player as young as he is should make LOTS of progress.

Without having watched the game yesterday, and judging by last season, I have to agree with you. I am a big Archie fan, but he has got to add something to his arsenal. He can drive to the hoop and little else. He has to develop a jumper- doesn't have to shoot 45% from the three-point line, but he has got to make 35% of those. He has to stop looking lost on defense. He looks exactly like he looked when we drafted him, and that's not very promising.
 

Chaz

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Some people here gave up on Joe Johnson early too.

Archie may never be more than bench scoring and that would be OK. He has improved a lot I think. He looked like a baby deer when he got here. He is much bigger, stronger, and more in control of his body now. He isn't even 21 and yet people are losing patience with him. Two years from now he could be a very valuable utility player.
 

Chaplin

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Some people here gave up on Joe Johnson early too.

Archie may never be more than bench scoring and that would be OK. He has improved a lot I think. He looked like a baby deer when he got here. He is much bigger, stronger, and more in control of his body now. He isn't even 21 and yet people are losing patience with him. Two years from now he could be a very valuable utility player.

The difference is I don't think he's improved nearly as much as an 18 year old kid should have over the past 2 years. That doesn't bode well for his rate of improvement over the next season and beyond. Especially if everyone else is passing him up. Booker is the key. If he proves to be a better player by next summer, that's it for Goodwin. He'll be gone.
 

Chaz

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The difference is I don't think he's improved nearly as much as an 18 year old kid should have over the past 2 years. That doesn't bode well for his rate of improvement over the next season and beyond. Especially if everyone else is passing him up. Booker is the key. If he proves to be a better player by next summer, that's it for Goodwin. He'll be gone.
Even if Booker passes him so what?

They are going to just cut bait on a talented young player on a rookie contract? The decision on the team option doesn't even come up for two more seasons.

I love how people create their own expectations and then blame the player when he doesn't live up to them within a a relatively short period of time.

This isn't the NBA where players come in ready. Player development will determine future success for franchises.

There is a reason he lasted until 29 in the draft and Booker was a lottery pick.
 
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Mainstreet

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Some people here gave up on Joe Johnson early too.

Archie may never be more than bench scoring and that would be OK. He has improved a lot I think. He looked like a baby deer when he got here. He is much bigger, stronger, and more in control of his body now. He isn't even 21 and yet people are losing patience with him. Two years from now he could be a very valuable utility player.

I agree the Suns should not lose patience with Archie Goodwin because I think he will find his niche in the NBA. It's not like the Suns do not have room on their roster to carry a talented young player on a rookie contact.

However, I can't remember fans losing patience with Joe Johnson in Phoenix until he demanded to be traded. As I recall, it seems almost everyone on the forum wanted Joe Johnson to be extended the year before he became a RFA. It seemed Robert Sarver was one of the very few who wanted Joe Johnson to prove he was worth the money by playing another season before showing him the money.
 

Chaz

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I agree the Suns should not lose patience with Archie Goodwin because I think he will find his niche in the NBA. It's not like the Suns do not have room on their roster to carry a talented young player on a rookie contact.

However, I can't remember fans losing patience with Joe Johnson in Phoenix until he demanded to be traded. As I recall, it seems almost everyone on the forum wanted Joe Johnson to be extended the year before he became a RFA. It seemed Robert Sarver was one of the very few who wanted Joe Johnson to prove he was worth the money by playing another season before showing him the money.

In 2003 some people were lamenting the lack of progress and poor shooting performances from a 20 yr old Joe Johnson.

I am not saying that Archie will be great or even a good consistently contributing NBA player, just that it is way premature to talk about getting rid of him over a perceived lack of improvement in just 2 seasons.
The only way I see Archie not being on the team in two years is if he is involved in a trade to improve the team, he goes full meltdown locker room cancer over lack or playing time, or he gets in serious trouble with the law.

We all knew he was a long term project when they drafted him.
 

leclerc

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We got Joe from Boston because they gave up on him. It took him some time to get things right for the Suns. He probably was a little lost and without a perfect jumper at age 21. Green couldn't shoot until later, he used to be one dimensional.

Archie has handles, athleticism, size, work ethic, he handled the point as a sub and he's working on his shot. And some of you want him gone after two years and a summer league game. He's not a starter that must be upgraded. He's fighting for a spot in the rotation. I say let him keep trying. There's no need to replace him.

If Booker turns out better good for us. We need more than 2 guards on a winning team.
 

Catlover

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It was because Johnson was stuck behind Pierce and the Celtics wanted additional firepower (Rogers, Delk) for a playoff run.

Correct but I think there was a little more to it. Joe started out well and they had high expectations but he soon faltered. At that same time another of their rookies started playing very well so they thought Johnson was expendable. The other rookie sg/sf turned out to be a flash in the pan.
 

leclerc

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My point is that we can afford to wait and keep developing Goodwin if he continues to be patient and work hard. It's stupid to get rid of young talent too soon without good reason. He might yet turn out great.

I think we have a good two guard rotation with our two starting combo guards, Archie, Weems and Booker. Should replace McNeal and Ronnie Price with a small classic PG that can shoot open 3s and just bring the ball up.

One problem I have though is with his stance. His feet are too close together when he shoots so he does not get proper balance. They should square up with his shoulders. Jeff or jumpshot #8 should have pointed this out by now...
 

JCSunsfan

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Some people here gave up on Joe Johnson early too.

Archie may never be more than bench scoring and that would be OK. He has improved a lot I think. He looked like a baby deer when he got here. He is much bigger, stronger, and more in control of his body now. He isn't even 21 and yet people are losing patience with him. Two years from now he could be a very valuable utility player.

Joe Johnson was a rookie. Archie has been with this team two full years. Isn't this his third summer league? Can't see the comparison. Archie has had plenty of time. I am not advocating getting rid of him, but I do not have alot of high hopes for him based upon his absolute lack of improvement.
 
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