Darnold to the Panthers

[Stout]

lol


You realize Russell Wilson plays the most valuable position in football by light years, right? I think anyone that realize it’s the year 2021 & not 1991 would make that trade(would replace Burns with another player though).




How you gonna throw the HOF label on McCaffrey this early? Have you not learned with Todd Gurley? David Johnson? Ezekiel Elliot? C’mon now.


It’s actually scary how you & others are still holding RB to such a high regard of value in this day & age.

It's actually sad how absolutely certain you are that the RB position has zero value in the league. Not lessened value, not "the position has changed and it's less of a factor" value. The way you and others on here talk, RBs are no more valuable than punters.

Plus, you're trying to move the goal posts. I didn't throw the HOF label on McCaffrey; you implied it. I said a few HOFers off the top of my head; McCaffrey is a great modern RB, but who knows if he becomes a HOFer?

Also, I'm not holding the RB position in "high regard;" I simply don't think you can plug chopped liver in at the position and go to the playoffs. I mean, you scoff at the idea of it being difficult to find a starting RB late in the draft. So, then, like, why don't all teams have good starting RBs? They're there to be had late in the draft, in every draft, right? So even our worthless draft talent evaluator, Keim, should be able to poach one. Right?

Otherwise, if you don't maintain that stance, you're completely bullish that our current stable of RBs can take us to the playoffs, right? I mean, do tell, DVontel.

The RB position is no longer one of the most important positions on offense. That is true. Having no starting RBs is a recipe for missing the playoffs. Also true.

 

[Krangodnzr]

It's actually sad how absolutely certain you are that the RB position has zero value in the league. Not lessened value, not "the position has changed and it's less of a factor" value. The way you and others on here talk, RBs are no more valuable than punters.

Plus, you're trying to move the goal posts. I didn't throw the HOF label on McCaffrey; you implied it. I said a few HOFers off the top of my head; McCaffrey is a great modern RB, but who knows if he becomes a HOFer?

Also, I'm not holding the RB position in "high regard;" I simply don't think you can plug chopped liver in at the position and go to the playoffs. I mean, you scoff at the idea of it being difficult to find a starting RB late in the draft. So, then, like, why don't all teams have good starting RBs? They're there to be had late in the draft, in every draft, right? So even our worthless draft talent evaluator, Keim, should be able to poach one. Right?

Otherwise, if you don't maintain that stance, you're completely bullish that our current stable of RBs can take us to the playoffs, right? I mean, do tell, DVontel.

The RB position is no longer one of the most important positions on offense. That is true. Having no starting RBs is a recipe for missing the playoffs. Also true.

Not that I disagree with you, but the Chiefs RB room the year they won the big game was pretty poopy. I'd take Chase over any of their backs.

It's not impossible at all for the Cardinals to get to the playoffs with Chase. Who knows, maybe he takes off with more reps?

 

[Krangodnzr]

So you'd trade a top RB as ONE PIECE, with several other big pieces, just to land Russel Wilson? You're out your damn mind. But then, you and several others on here have lost touch and think a pee wee player can be plugged in at RB.

You know I just grabbed a few HOF RB names off the top of my head. I could just as easily have said, ya know, CHRISTIAN MCCAFFREY.

Anyone wanting to trade Christian McCaffrey, a top-10 pick, ANOTHER first rounder, and, and...for Russel Wilson, is out of touch with reality.

Brother....I'd say the same thing about you for saying that Russell ISN'T worth that package.

Russell is easily worth that package. RBs don't win championships anymore.

 

[GatorAZ]

Sam Darnold
Christian McCaffery
#8
1st next year
Maybe Brian Burns or Gross-Matos as well.

That is trade rape by Carolina. We can only hope Seattle feels that strongly about Darnold and a RB that just got paid as add-ins on the #8 pick and a DE.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Don't be shocked if Sam Darnold is part of a massive trade package to Seattle for Russell Wilson.

Don't be shocked when he doesn't get traded there.

He's got a list of 4 teams.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...-preferred-teams-will-make-a-move-to-get-him/

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Stout]

Brother....I'd say the same thing about you for saying that Russell ISN'T worth that package.

Russell is easily worth that package. RBs don't win championships anymore.

If this were 25-year old Wilson, absolutely. Granted that QBs play well into their 30s now, he relies a lot on his mobility. How long's that going to last? If this were McCaffrey and a 1st, I'd also do it. The current suggested deal? Nope.

 

[PACardsFan]

Complete disagreement here.

With McCaffrey the Panthers have never won more than 7 games. RB is one of the easiest position groups to replace.

Darnold is a gamble more than anything else.

#8 is worth less than normal because of the lack of top end players available.

A first next year is worth less because you are trading for Russ to get you competitive.

Burns and Gross-Matos are replaceable even if I would prefer to move Gross-Matos.

they have a ton of cap space in 2022 for free agents.

Brady is old. Brees is retired. Ryan is getting another new coach. Carolina would go from irrelevant to having the best QB in the division in one move.

You're entitled to your opinion. but IMO, it would be horrendous for Carolina if they gave up all that you proposed for a QB that appears to have lost a step & looked pretty average the 2nd half of last season. Brady may be old, but the TB defense would make Wilson look just as futile and maybe even more futile than the Rams D did last year. Just my opinion.

 

[Chopper0080]

Can I ask what you like about Darnold? Other than measurables? After watching him a few times he left me with the feeling that he isn’t a lot to be desired at all....

I think he came out of college to a poor organization lacking talent similar to Kyler but he doesn't have Kyler's legs to make up for it. Darnold was raw coming out but has very good measurable traits. He is dedicated to the game. He has flashes where, IMO, he shows he can be an NFL QB. He is still very young. I still think his floor can be a top 16 NFL QB. He may end up being a guy like Goff who is limited but a legit NFL QB, but that has value IMO.

 

[Chopper0080]

LOL I swear, some of you would say to trade Barry Sanders or Jim Brown in their prime, because "RB is one of the easiest position groups to replace." Cutting off your nose to spite your face.

I included McCaffrey because the Panthers specified that he would be available in a trade for Watson.

 

[Chopper0080]

Don't be shocked when he doesn't get traded there.

He's got a list of 4 teams.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...-preferred-teams-will-make-a-move-to-get-him/

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

He sure did but it was a terrible list that is no longer relevant. He has to decide if he wants to be in Settle when his issue is with Carroll and Carroll rules supreme up there.

 

[Solar7]

Brother....I'd say the same thing about you for saying that Russell ISN'T worth that package.

Russell is easily worth that package. RBs don't win championships anymore.

And Russell didn't win a championship or get to another without... a top RB.

 

[WisconsinCard]

I included McCaffrey because the Panthers specified that he would be available in a trade for Watson.

What is the cap hit for trading McCaffrey? Just a guess it would be huge since they just re-signed him to a big contract.

 

[Chopper0080]

And Russell didn't win a championship or get to another without... a top RB.

You have to make the playoffs before you can win a chip. Zeke didn't make the playoffs. Neither did Josh Jacobs. Neither did Saquan Barkley. Fournette was cut by the team that drafted him. CMC, nope. I am not even going to bring up Sony Michel and Rashaad Penny.

Todd Gurley and Melvin Gordon were first rounders in the 2015 draft and both are on different teams after being cut. Before them it was in 2012 with Doug Martin, Trent Richardson and David Wilson...yeesh.

Since 2012, 11 RBs have been drafted in the first round.

32 - Clyde Edwards-Helaire
24 - Josh Jacobs
2 - Saquon Barkley
27 - Rashaad Penny
31 - Sony Michel
4 - Leonard Fournette
8 - Christian McCaffrey
4 - Ezekiel Elliott
10 - Todd Gurley
15 - Melvin Gordon
3 - Trent Richardson
31 - Doug Martin
32 - David Wilson

Let's quick acting like we are missing out by not selecting one in round 1.

You can argue that it is important to get production from the RB position. However, there is no evidence that shows taking one in the first round does anything to ensure you of getting that production.

 

[Chopper0080]

What is the cap hit for trading McCaffrey? Just a guess it would be huge since they just re-signed him to a big contract.

It is big but they don't seem to care.

 

[WisconsinCard]

I think he came out of college to a poor organization lacking talent similar to Kyler but he doesn't have Kyler's legs to make up for it. Darnold was raw coming out but has very good measurable traits. He is dedicated to the game. He has flashes where, IMO, he shows he can be an NFL QB. He is still very young. I still think his floor can be a top 16 NFL QB. He may end up being a guy like Goff who is limited but a legit NFL QB, but that has value IMO.

Was it you that said you would have traded 3 number one's to move up in the draft to get him? Do you still believe he would have been worth that?

 

[Chopper0080]

Was it you that said you would have traded 3 number one's to move up in the draft to get him? Do you still believe he would have been worth that?

Probably was me. lol. I thought he was the best QB in that class. I believe that Adam Gase hurts players and especially ones that need to develop. I did believe Darnold would be able to overcome a poor roster. I wasn't confident that he could overcome a bad roster an terrible coaching.

EDIT: I believe that QB is pretty much all that matters in the sense that if you have the right one, everyone in a organization has a chance to be their best. Obviously QBs need help which is why I think you need stability in an offensive system and a OL to ensure the QB is able to develop good habits and maximize his talent.

 

[DVontel]

And Russell didn't win a championship or get to another without... a top RB.

Or maybe without one of the greatest defenses of all time.

RBs have produced since Marshawn left.


Their defense, well, hasn’t.

 

[Solar7]

You have to make the playoffs before you can win a chip. Zeke didn't make the playoffs. Neither did Josh Jacobs. Neither did Saquan Barkley. Fournette was cut by the team that drafted him. CMC, nope. I am not even going to bring up Sony Michel and Rashaad Penny.

Todd Gurley and Melvin Gordon were first rounders in the 2015 draft and both are on different teams after being cut. Before them it was in 2012 with Doug Martin, Trent Richardson and David Wilson...yeesh.

Since 2012, 11 RBs have been drafted in the first round.

32 - Clyde Edwards-Helaire
24 - Josh Jacobs
2 - Saquon Barkley
27 - Rashaad Penny
31 - Sony Michel
4 - Leonard Fournette
8 - Christian McCaffrey
4 - Ezekiel Elliott
10 - Todd Gurley
15 - Melvin Gordon
3 - Trent Richardson
31 - Doug Martin
32 - David Wilson

Let's quick acting like we are missing out by not selecting one in round 1.

You can argue that it is important to get production from the RB position. However, there is no evidence that shows taking one in the first round does anything to ensure you of getting that production.

For the umpteenth time, like we discussed in the other thread, I'm only saying RB in round 1 because the right guys won't be there in the 2nd. It's go in the first or accept Edmonds as the unquestioned #1 RB for a 17 game season.

 

[Solar7]

Or maybe without one of the greatest defenses of all time.

RBs have produced since Marshawn left.


Their defense, well, hasn’t.

Good RB + good defense, whatever. Still enough that the Panthers shouldn't give up CMC and the smorgasboard of other assets proposed in this thread for Wilson. He's not worth it.

 

[DVontel]

Good RB + good defense, whatever. Still enough that the Panthers shouldn't give up CMC and the smorgasboard of other assets proposed in this thread for Wilson. He's not worth it.

Good QB + Elite defense then good RB.

They absolutely should, but yea.

 

[Solar7]

Good QB + Elite defense then good RB.

They absolutely should, but yea.

Ridiculous. If Wilson is good enough to take a gutted team to the Super Bowl, why hasn't he gotten the Seahawks out of the divisional round in 6 years? What's going to be different in Carolina with no running game and a bottom-half defense?

 

[DVontel]

Ridiculous. If Wilson is good enough to take a gutted team to the Super Bowl, why hasn't he gotten the Seahawks out of the divisional round in 6 years? What's going to be different in Carolina with no running game and a bottom-half defense?

I think the Saints are prone to fall off for obvious reasons & Atlanta is missing a lot of pieces. Carolina also have some very young promising pieces on defense. Seattle has talent on defense, but in the least valuable positions for the most part. Take out Burns & put a draft pick there, I’m making that trade in a heart beat if I’m Carolina.

 

[Solar7]

I think the Saints are prone to fall off for obvious reasons & Atlanta is missing a lot of pieces. Carolina also have some very young promising pieces on defense. Seattle has talent on defense, but in the least valuable positions for the most part. Take out Burns & put a draft pick there, I’m making that trade in a heart beat if I’m Carolina.

Beating the Saints and Atlanta does not equal winning a championship though. That's the question. Does that team contend for a Super Bowl in the years Russell Wilson has left as a top QB while shedding assets and their best offensive weapon?

 

[DVontel]

Beating the Saints and Atlanta does not equal winning a championship though. That's the question. Does that team contend for a Super Bowl in the years Russell Wilson has left as a top QB while shedding assets and their best offensive weapon?

I’d probably switch out that #8 pick for a second & third, but yea.

They still got weapons with DJ Moore, Robby Anderson, & possibly Kyle Pitts. Also think Joe Brady will continue to get better.

 

[gimpy]

Good RB + good defense, whatever. Still enough that the Panthers shouldn't give up CMC and the smorgasboard of other assets proposed in this thread for Wilson. He's not worth it.

Wait, wait, wait. What is this? Is this you, Thesmel?