Comparing our last playoff team (1998) to our current team (2005). Who's better?

[Lomax to Green 84]

Its awful easy to say that our current team is better than the 1998 Cards, but lets take a moment to actually compare the two clubs. I am one who loved the 1998 Cardinals. For one year they could be the old Cardinals and actually be pretty good. I taped the playoff win against Dallas (watched it so many times its going bad), went to the game at St. Louis (win 20-17), went to the huge win against San Diego (Plummer's miraculous 58 second drive to win on a last second field goal), went to training camp that year. It was truly a great year for me as a Cards fan.

Now lets actually compare the 1998 club versus the 2005 club on the field.

Offense
Left Tackle-Lomas Brown vs. Leonard Davis (slight edge to Davis)

Left Guard-Chris Dishman vs. Reggie Wells (I give the edge to Dishman. He got fat after that but he was a bull in 1998)

Center-Aaron Graham vs. Alex Stepanovich-(edge to Step)

Right Guard-Lester Holmes vs. Jeremy Bridges/Elton Brown-(even)

Right Tackle-James Dexter vs. Oliver Ross (slight edge to Ross, but Dexter was alot better than given credit for).

TE-Johnny McWilliams vs. Eric Edwards- (slight edge to McWilliams until Edwards proves something as a starter)

WR-Rob Moore vs. Larry Fitzgerald- (even-Moore was pretty darn good in 98 and I think Fitzgerald will be excellent in 05)

WR-Frank Sanders vs. Anquan Boldin- (slight edge to Boldin but very slight. Sanders led the league in 3rd down receptions for first downs, led the league in receptions overall, and was bigtime in the clutch)

Quarterback-Jake Plummer vs. Kurt Warner/Josh McCown- (edge to Plummer. Say what you want about the snake, but he was magical in 98 especially those last 7 games of the season-465 yards against Dallas/392 versus San Diego)

Fullback-Larry Centers vs. Obefemi (slight edge to Centers but very slight)

Running Back-Adrian Murrell vs. Marcel Shipp/JJ Arrington (slight edge to Shipp/Arrington because of better line play in 05)

Defense
Right Defenseive End-Simeon Rice vs. Bert Berry (edge Berry)

Right D-Tackle-Mark Smith vs. Darnell Dockett (even-Smith had 9.5 sacks in 98 and was dominant before the contract and the knee injury)

Left D-Tackle-Eric Swann/Rashod Swinger vs. Russell Davis/Wendell Bryant-edge to Swann/Swinger. Swann was dominant when healthy and Swinger was also a load against the run.

Left Defensive End-Andre Wadsworth vs. Chike Okeafor (Slight edge to Okeafor)

Strong side Linebacker-Jamir Miller vs. Karlos Dansby (even-Miller was darn good in 98 and Dansby is excellent)

Middle Linebacker-Ron McKinnon vs. Gerald Hayes (slight edge to McKinnon because McKinnon was a turnover machine in his early days)

Weakside backer-James Darling vs. Patrick Sapp (edge Darling)

Left Corner-Aeneas Williams vs. David Macklin (Williams is a hall of famer-big edge to Williams)

Right Corner-Corey Chavous/Tom Knight vs. Antrel Rolle (even-Chavous was dynamite the last few games of the season but I think Rolle will be really good)

Strong Safety-Tommy Bennett vs. Adrian Wilson (big edge to Wilson)

Free Safety-Pat Tillman/Kwamie Lassiter vs. Robert Griffith/Ohelete (slight edge to Tillman/Lassiter for turnover capability)

Coaching-Vince Tobin vs. Dennis Green (Big edge to Green and his staff over Tobin's group)

Final score-2005 Cards 24/1998 Cards 21 (Close game but the 2005 club wins)

 

[Pariah]

I think our current squad has the potential to be MUCH better, but look how many times you had to project good things for the club.

Until proven otherwise on the field, the 98 club was better.

 

[Russ Smith]

I think our current squad has the potential to be MUCH better, but look how many times you had to project good things for the club.

Until proven otherwise on the field, the 98 club was better.

The big similarity is the division. in 98 we SHOULD have won the NFC east, it was a very down year even Dallas wasn't that good we could have quite easily taken that if we hadn't started so slowly waiting on the offense to get it together. When you consider how banged up the defense was by the end of the year it was amazing we held on but the offense turned it on at just the right time.

I think our division this year is potentially similar. Rams figure to be worse, 49ers are still too iffy, Seattle I thought given their cap situation had a pretty good offseason but they're still not all that great and I think they have a severe depth problem when injuries occur now.

The key in 98 is the defense forced a TON of turnovers, if we can do that again we'll take the division easily.

 

[kerouac9]

Quarterback-Jake Plummer vs. Kurt Warner/Josh McCown- (edge to Plummer. Say what you want about the snake, but he was magical in 98 especially those last 7 games of the season-465 yards against Dallas/392 versus San Diego)

Dude, get off the pipe. Plummer's "magical" 1998 season consisted of 17 TDs, 20 INTs and a passer rating of 75.0. Josh McCown last season put up 11 TDs, 10 INTs, and a rating of 74.1. Are you kidding me?

Miller was a Pro Bowl-caliber player that season. What has Karlos Dansby really done so far?

It's one thing to compare the 1998 team to the one that just finished the season. To compare the '98 team to one that hasn't even put on the pads? That's ridiculous.

 

[wilycoyote24]

It's one thing to compare the 1998 team to the one that just finished the season. To compare the '98 team to one that hasn't even put on the pads? That's ridiculous.

And that is what makes it fun to argue about it.

 

[Shane]

Its awful easy to say that our current team is better than the 1998 Cards, but lets take a moment to actually compare the two clubs. I am one who loved the 1998 Cardinals. For one year they could be the old Cardinals and actually be pretty good. I taped the playoff win against Dallas (watched it so many times its going bad), went to the game at St. Louis (win 20-17), went to the huge win against San Diego (Plummer's miraculous 58 second drive to win on a last second field goal), went to training camp that year. It was truly a great year for me as a Cards fan.

Now lets actually compare the 1998 club versus the 2005 club on the field.

Offense
Left Tackle-Lomas Brown vs. Leonard Davis (slight edge to Davis)

Left Guard-Chris Dishman vs. Reggie Wells (I give the edge to Dishman. He got fat after that but he was a bull in 1998)

Center-Aaron Graham vs. Alex Stepanovich-(edge to Step)

Right Guard-Lester Holmes vs. Jeremy Bridges/Elton Brown-(even)

Right Tackle-James Dexter vs. Oliver Ross (slight edge to Ross, but Dexter was alot better than given credit for).

TE-Johnny McWilliams vs. Eric Edwards- (slight edge to McWilliams until Edwards proves something as a starter)

WR-Rob Moore vs. Larry Fitzgerald- (even-Moore was pretty darn good in 98 and I think Fitzgerald will be excellent in 05)

WR-Frank Sanders vs. Anquan Boldin- (slight edge to Boldin but very slight. Sanders led the league in 3rd down receptions for first downs, led the league in receptions overall, and was bigtime in the clutch)

Quarterback-Jake Plummer vs. Kurt Warner/Josh McCown- (edge to Plummer. Say what you want about the snake, but he was magical in 98 especially those last 7 games of the season-465 yards against Dallas/392 versus San Diego)

Fullback-Larry Centers vs. Obefemi (slight edge to Centers but very slight)

Running Back-Adrian Murrell vs. Marcel Shipp/JJ Arrington (slight edge to Shipp/Arrington because of better line play in 05)

Defense
Right Defenseive End-Simeon Rice vs. Bert Berry (edge Berry)

Right D-Tackle-Mark Smith vs. Darnell Dockett (even-Smith had 9.5 sacks in 98 and was dominant before the contract and the knee injury)

Left D-Tackle-Eric Swann/Rashod Swinger vs. Russell Davis/Wendell Bryant-edge to Swann/Swinger. Swann was dominant when healthy and Swinger was also a load against the run.

Left Defensive End-Andre Wadsworth vs. Chike Okeafor (Slight edge to Okeafor)

Strong side Linebacker-Jamir Miller vs. Karlos Dansby (even-Miller was darn good in 98 and Dansby is excellent)

Middle Linebacker-Ron McKinnon vs. Gerald Hayes (slight edge to McKinnon because McKinnon was a turnover machine in his early days)

Weakside backer-James Darling vs. Patrick Sapp (edge Darling)

Left Corner-Aeneas Williams vs. David Macklin (Williams is a hall of famer-big edge to Williams)

Right Corner-Corey Chavous/Tom Knight vs. Antrel Rolle (even-Chavous was dynamite the last few games of the season but I think Rolle will be really good)

Strong Safety-Tommy Bennett vs. Adrian Wilson (big edge to Wilson)

Free Safety-Pat Tillman/Kwamie Lassiter vs. Robert Griffith/Ohelete (slight edge to Tillman/Lassiter for turnover capability)

Coaching-Vince Tobin vs. Dennis Green (Big edge to Green and his staff over Tobin's group)

Final score-2005 Cards 24/1998 Cards 21 (Close game but the 2005 club wins)

Sorry but You are smoking something big time in relation to the ones I bolded.

Fitz is nothing but potential to this point who had a mediocre 700 yard year last season. To say right now he will ever have the solid career or 1998 Moore had is just speculation and cant be compared. EDGE: MOORE

Sanders while clutch is and never will be the player on the field that Anquan has showed already and I am a HUGE Sanders fan. MORE THAN SLIGHT: BOLDIN

Exactly how does Centers only get a slightly better than Ayanbadejo? Im curious?

MArk SMith was a downright stud in 1998. Dockett has only shown flashes. Until he gets more consistent you have to give a huge edge to: SMITH

Jamir Miller was a Pro Bowl LB who disrupted the entire offense. Dansby also has shown flashes but was nowhere near the dominateing level Miller was at in 98. Once again big advantage to: Miller

Pariah pretty much stated it perfectly.

 

[slanidrac16]

A more interesting comparison would have been the team that STARTED the 1998 season. Nobody in their right minds would have predicted that team to make the playoffs. In 1997 we went 4-12.

I think this team matches up favorably to the 98 team.

 

[CardinalChris]

Sorry but You are smoking something big time in relation to the ones I bolded.

Fitz is nothing but potential to this point who had a mediocre 700 yard year last season. To say right now he will ever have the solid career or 1998 Moore had is just speculation and cant be compared. EDGE: MOORE

Sanders while clutch is and never will be the player on the field that Anquan has showed already and I am a HUGE Sanders fan. MORE THAN SLIGHT: BOLDIN

Here's an interesting thought... would you give Boldin the nod over Moore and Fitz the edge over sanders? I think I would. Could just be who we are matching the players up against.

 

[Russ Smith]

A more interesting comparison would have been the team that STARTED the 1998 season. Nobody in their right minds would have predicted that team to make the playoffs. In 1997 we went 4-12.

I think this team matches up favorably to the 98 team.

Nah it was actually fairly obvious in fact I pegged us to win the division that year and put money on it in Reno.

People forget in 96 we were 7-9 and highly competitive in all but about 3 games where we just got waxed. We did that starting Esiason and Graham. The reason the 97 team was so bad is Graham was the QB and was awful, and then Jake took over and was just so raw that while exciting, and better than Graham, he was still pretty bad and we won only 4 games.

That 96 team was actually a fairly impressive coaching job by Tobin, the defense was I think 25th and the offense in the 20's yet we were in most games while starting Graham and Esiason, with LeShon Johnson at RB. It was obvious with better QB and RB play the team was on the rise because the defense was getting better as the young players matured.

Even the 97 team lost 4 games by a FG or less and something like 6 by a TD or less, we just didn't have a big playmaker to win those close games.

In 98 in those close games either the defense forced a big TO, or Jake made a drive late and we won a lot of close games we'd lost the prior 2 years.

 

[Shuesters2]

Interesting idea but your comparisons are waaaay off.

Shuesters

 

[Cheesebeef]

A more interesting comparison would have been the team that STARTED the 1998 season. Nobody in their right minds would have predicted that team to make the playoffs. In 1997 we went 4-12.

I think this team matches up favorably to the 98 team.

wow do I think you're WAYYYYY off base with the "nobody in their right mind" comment. Anyone that watched that 1997 team KNEW there was an abundance of talent on it as they watched agonizing loss after loss after loss - always in the last minute of the game the first 8 weeks - we then watched a young QB display actual flashes of brilliance, then drafted what was assumed to be the next Bruce Smith AND traded for a 1000 yard rusher - this was also on the heels of Vince 1st year when we went 7-9. I was pretty confident that 98 team was gonna make a push for the playoffs, and most people looked at us as a team on the rise after the offseason that wehad and with Plummer breaking rookie records.

that being said - I think this team has more POTENTIAL to be good than that team did before the season but it all hinges on the O-line and Warner.

 

[Jetstream Green]

On Plummer in '98

In '98 he did one thing- WIN. That is a QB's main job so I don't really care about his stats our why we had to win the way we did... that guy willed that team to win more than once that season. Yes, I would give Plummer '98 an edge over McCown and Warner.

Frank Sanders was one of the most reliable WRs that year and seemed to always find a way to get open... also made some fantastic catches...that grab away from his body against Dallas in the playoffs was great...edge Sanders over Boldin or Fitz at this point. I would put Fitz even with Moore. I would rate only Sanders above Boldin. Some must have forgot how well Sanders played that year. Sanders was always there in the clutch when the team needed him the most. Plummer and Sanders where one hell of a duo.

Lomas Brown over Davis. Lomas was the heart of that line and without him players like Dexter or Dishman would have really looked like crap. It is Brown's leadership skill that gives him the edge.

And Eric Swann, when healthy was better than Dockett, Berry... doesn't matter. I think that Dockett will be a Pro-Bowl player and Berry still doesn't get enough credit with the player he has become but Swann was a freak of nature and he could control an offense at times by himself.

 

[BigDavis75]

I would take Lomas Brown over Davis as much as I hate to say it, but the rest of our current O-Line I would take. Davis has the potential to be a top-5 tackle, and showed it for a while last year. I really hope he comes into his own this year.

I would give Centers a huge edge over Femi/ Hodgy.

Like others have said Jamir was our best LB that year and I would take him over any current LB this year.

Recievers Fitz vs. Sanders is even, but Boldin over Moore.

 

[BigRedFan]

LOL. I'll give him a break though, our only "glory days" were 9-7 in 1998 and way back in 1984. But I'll give the edge to Warner on QB.

Dude, get off the pipe. Plummer's "magical" 1998 season consisted of 17 TDs, 20 INTs and a passer rating of 75.0. Josh McCown last season put up 11 TDs, 10 INTs, and a rating of 74.1. Are you kidding me?

Miller was a Pro Bowl-caliber player that season. What has Karlos Dansby really done so far?

It's one thing to compare the 1998 team to the one that just finished the season. To compare the '98 team to one that hasn't even put on the pads? That's ridiculous.

 

[Lomax to Green 84]

Dude, get off the pipe. Plummer's "magical" 1998 season consisted of 17 TDs, 20 INTs and a passer rating of 75.0. Josh McCown last season put up 11 TDs, 10 INTs, and a rating of 74.1. Are you kidding me?

Miller was a Pro Bowl-caliber player that season. What has Karlos Dansby really done so far?

It's one thing to compare the 1998 team to the one that just finished the season. To compare the '98 team to one that hasn't even put on the pads? That's ridiculous.

Hey Kerouac, I was wondering how many games you actually saw in 1998? And was curious if you actually read my post. I never mentioned that Plummer was any good the first half of the season, in fact he sucked. However, he was dynamite the last seven games of the season (465 yards against Dallas/ 3 rushing touchdowns against Washington/ 392 yards against New Orleans/250+ yards against a top 5 defense in San Diego).

Also I hate being called dude.

 

[kerouac9]

Hey Kerouac, I was wondering how many games you actually saw in 1998? And was curious if you actually read my post. I never mentioned that Plummer was any good the first half of the season, in fact he sucked. However, he was dynamite the last seven games of the season (465 yards against Dallas/ 3 rushing touchdowns against Washington/ 392 yards against New Orleans/250+ yards against a top 5 defense in San Diego).

Also I hate being called dude.

I read exactly what you said in your first post, and what you said was that he was "magical" in all of 1998, "especially in the last seven games." Maybe you should read your own words. How many picks did he throw in the last seven games of that season? To go along with those 20 picks, he had 12 fumbles (so much for that monster O-line). You didn't just say that he was "good," dude, you said that he was "magical." Read your post.

 

[Jersey Girl]

Also I hate being called dude.

Dude.

I enjoyed reading your assessment and, like wiley said, it's fun to debate it.

Until Fitz plays more, I have to give a larger edge to Rob Moore. And I definitely think Larry Centers deserves a larger edge as well.

I agree with your Plummer assessment and reserve the right to change my mind on that one once Warner takes the field.

 

[Lomax to Green 84]

I read exactly what you said in your first post, and what you said was that he was "magical" in all of 1998, "especially in the last seven games." Maybe you should read your own words. How many picks did he throw in the last seven games of that season? To go along with those 20 picks, he had 12 fumbles (so much for that monster O-line). You didn't just say that he was "good," dude, you said that he was "magical." Read your post.

You are correct. I should not have used magical, instead I should have used "winner". Plummer is the whipping boy of alltime on this board, but even those who hate the guy have to appreciate those 7 comebacks in 98. Rip away as you wish.

 

[Duckjake]

You are correct. I should not have used magical, instead I should have used "winner". Plummer is the whipping boy of alltime on this board, but even those who hate the guy have to appreciate those 7 comebacks in 98. Rip away as you wish.

Having witnessed the rapid dispersal of the players on those teams with little success for most of them with other teams I'd have to say you are right on in your take on Jake. He did rather well imo considering the lack of talent and poor coaching.

Interestingly the 1998 team is the only one whose offense finished in the top 15 in points scored the last 10 years. The defense on the other hand did not fare much better than those of recent years, still ranking in the bottom 10 (24th) in points allowed. They gave up 38,33,35,and 34 twice and allowed the skins to come back from a 31-6 halftime deficit before the Cards won 45-42. In one 4 game stretch in mid season Cards opponents scored 138 points! Yet the defense gets most of the props in the look backs.

Question: Was it the New Orleans or San Diego game where the Cards D allowed a late 4th quarter TD pass on 3rd and forever? I believe it was SD but am not sure.

 

[football karma]

I think it was 4th and forever that Craig Welihan of San Diego threw a TD pass

I also beleive they gave up a late score against New Orleans the week before that required some late game heroics to overcome

 

[john h]

I think our current squad has the potential to be MUCH better, but look how many times you had to project good things for the club.

Until proven otherwise on the field, the 98 club was better.

We have a lot of "young maybes" on this club. Only time will tell just how good or bad they will be. Different coaches, different philosophies, different times. A real reach to try and make such a comparison.

 

[john h]

Sorry but You are smoking something big time in relation to the ones I bolded.

Fitz is nothing but potential to this point who had a mediocre 700 yard year last season. To say right now he will ever have the solid career or 1998 Moore had is just speculation and cant be compared. EDGE: MOORE

Sanders while clutch is and never will be the player on the field that Anquan has showed already and I am a HUGE Sanders fan. MORE THAN SLIGHT: BOLDIN

Exactly how does Centers only get a slightly better than Ayanbadejo? Im curious?

MArk SMith was a downright stud in 1998. Dockett has only shown flashes. Until he gets more consistent you have to give a huge edge to: SMITH

Jamir Miller was a Pro Bowl LB who disrupted the entire offense. Dansby also has shown flashes but was nowhere near the dominateing level Miller was at in 98. Once again big advantage to: Miller

Pariah pretty much stated it perfectly.

One could say Boldin had one great year and that is all you can say. Sanders proved over time he was a steadfast receiver who would catch it in a pack. Much to early to declare Boldin a better lifetime player than a very good Frank Sanders who proved it for years.

 

[Mr.Dibbs]

Until this team wins at least 9 games, the 1998 team was better. This question should be posted at the end of the season.