Chiefs at Cardinals PS 2 gameday thread 8-20-2021

[slanidrac16]

So far Dortch as done everything you hoped to see in rookie Isabella. Can return on special teams and makes some tough catches when needed. And all with the 3rd team offense.

He's got to be pushing Isabella for his spot. At this stage the only reason they keep Andy is if 1) He balls out in PS game 3 but more likely 2) They can't bring themselves to cut a 2nd round pick so soon.

I'd like Dortch on the roster though. Even if it's just for ST's.

Is be shocked if Dortch bumps Isabella off the roster.

 

[Krangodnzr]

So far Dortch as done everything you hoped to see in rookie Isabella. Can return on special teams and makes some tough catches when needed. And all with the 3rd team offense.

He's got to be pushing Isabella for his spot. At this stage the only reason they keep Andy is if 1) He balls out in PS game 3 but more likely 2) They can't bring themselves to cut a 2nd round pick so soon.

I'd like Dortch on the roster though. Even if it's just for ST's.

According to all observers, Isabella has been really good at camp. But is that enough to overcome his weak body of work?

 

[slanidrac16]

I also really like Greg Dortch. If I were in charge, I'd cut Isabella and keep Dortch. Or cut K Johnson.

Cutting Johnson would be a mistake. The light seems to have gone on.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Yes they were. But what happen the last 4 games? Lots of yards between the 20’s. Stats can be misleading. A team can get a lot of yards when they’re behind by 17 PTs. In the 4th quarter.
I’m so sick of seeing 2 yards passes behind the line of scrimmage praying for yac.
we can’t run the ball when we NEED to run the ball. Our play calling has us consistently playing behind the sticks.
The no huddle hurry up doesn’t scare anybody anymore and when the offense is sputtering it puts the defense back on the field in two minutes.
We see miscommunication between Qb and Wr. We see miscommunication on the o-line. I think ALWAYS playing fast hurts us. You are crazy if you don’t think no huddle doesn’t tire out your offensive players. Fatigue leads to mistakes, pre snap penalties and miscommunication.
And we have seen a lot of that.

But the point is, the offense HAS performed decently despite all of what you are saying.

An offense is really hamstrung when your QB can't consistently hit the bread and butter 11-20 yard passes. And when you rely on YAC and there isn't a guy who can consistently get YAC.

For all of the criticism of Kingsbury, he hasn't had the players to run his offense. That excuse goes away this year with Moore and Kirk in the slot.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Cutting Johnson would be a mistake. The light seems to have gone on.

It's a numbers game. Dortch will be able to consistently contribute on special teams. Will Johnson?

For all of Isabellas faults, he still brings elite speed to the table. Kirk can also play on the outside as well, so that means you don't have to keep Johnson just because you need an outside receiver.

 

[BritCard]

Is be shocked if Dortch bumps Isabella off the roster.

Me too, but he should in my opinion. I don't think Isabella will ever be good. He just doesn't pass the eye test.

And I'm not one of these "Just cut him coz he sucks" guys, I've been happy to see him given the chance to develop and he still think he makes the roster.

But he shouldn't. All things being equal Dortch has shown more, but most importantly he's good on ST's and Andy isn't.

 

[BritCard]

But the point is, the offense HAS performed decently despite all of what you are saying.

An offense is really hamstrung when your QB can't consistently hit the bread and butter 11-20 yard passes. And when you rely on YAC and there isn't a guy who can consistently get YAC.

For all of the criticism of Kingsbury, he hasn't had the players to run his offense. That excuse goes away this year with Moore and Kirk in the slot.

I good coach changes his offense to suit his players, not vice versa.

 

[Chopper0080]

The tough part about it is that in preseason games, you don't need to look great but you don't want to look terrible. We looked terrible on offense. I do agree with those that say the team's play reflected Kyler's attitude towards pre-season. They looked disinterested and unfocused. I don't know that it is an issue but I also don't know that it isn't. My concern is that Kyler speaks and acts like he can turn it on when he needs to, and I think he probably can, but a lot of players on the roster can't and they look to him for leadership and as an example. We will see.

Things I took away from the game.
1-Dorstch - Looked like a player who can push for a roster spot which is nice to see. You want competition in camp and he is showing that he needs to be considered.

2-Sean Harlow showed pretty well at LG. For a low cost pick up and with Justin Murray MIA to this point, it is nice to have some decent depth.

3-I agree with those who think Simmons and Collins looked good inside. What people forget is that it was never the player's talent that folks resisted when they were drafted. They were both talented athletes. I am still not certain Simmons will stay at ILB but we will see how the season progresses.

4-Obviously our talent in the front 5 without Golden, Watt, Phillips, CJones, Gardeck, RLawrence and Peters is not great.

5-Dogbe looks like a decent rotational player.

6-Christian Kirk looks like he may not be long for the Cardinals. Again, he looks like a guy who thinks he can just turn it on like Murray and I don't believe he is talented enough to do so. When is that last time he did something positive? Vs Cowboys?

7-Secondary does not look terrible. Have to think Gowan and Whittaker are battling for the 5th CB spot.

8-Speaking of, James Wiggins may not make the roster and it irks me a bit. Shaun Williams and Charles Washington being kept over him is a roster fail.

9-I actually am not worried about the offensive line looking off. This is where lack of padded reps is apparent. They will get there.

10-I liked the two INTs on defense. Making the plays that you should make is more important in preseason than making spectacular plays.

That is all I have.

 

[DVontel]

It's a numbers game. Dortch will be able to consistently contribute on special teams. Will Johnson?

For all of Isabellas faults, he still brings elite speed to the table. Kirk can also play on the outside as well, so that means you don't have to keep Johnson just because you need an outside receiver.

Does Isabella honestly bring elite speed or just good speed? Only thing Isabella has over Dortch is draft status.

 

[BritCard]

6-Christian Kirk looks like he may not be long for the Cardinals. Again, he looks like a guy who thinks he can just turn it on like Murray and I don't believe he is talented enough to do so. When is that last time he did something positive? Vs Cowboys?

Kirk had 1 target in 9 snaps only 4 of which were passing attempts for a 1st team offense that went 3 and out 3 times. Harsh to really judge him on that

 

[Jetstream Green]

It's a numbers game. Dortch will be able to consistently contribute on special teams. Will Johnson?

For all of Isabellas faults, he still brings elite speed to the table. Kirk can also play on the outside as well, so that means you don't have to keep Johnson just because you need an outside receiver.

I have watched Isabella enough to say he does not have 'elite' speed. He is fast compared to most but he does not have game changing speed or rather he sure the hell does not have that in pads playing football... his speed is a myth since he's been in the league and could care less about his combine times now

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[SoonerLou]

So far Dortch as done everything you hoped to see in rookie Isabella. Can return on special teams and makes some tough catches when needed. And all with the 3rd team offense.

He's got to be pushing Isabella for his spot. At this stage the only reason they keep Andy is if 1) He balls out in PS game 3 but more likely 2) They can't bring themselves to cut a 2nd round pick so soon.

I'd like Dortch on the roster though. Even if it's just for ST's.

Does Isabella honestly bring elite speed or just good speed? Only thing Isabella has over Dortch is draft status.

I'd argue that in terms of long speed he's someone who can consistently run by people. In camp it was reported that he's been the best he's ever looked now that he's got some really good coaching.

So in terms of the deep ball he'd fit very well with Kyler. I really like Dortch but he's
more in the Kirk type role imo.

 

[BritCard]

I have watched Isabella enough to say he does not have 'elite' speed. He is fast compared to most but he does not have game changing speed or rather he sure the hell does not have that in pads playing football... his speed is a myth since he's been in the league and could care less about his combine times now

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Yup Andy might have decent long speed (I'm still not convinced) but his 10 yard split at the combine was slower than DK who has about 45 lbs on him.

Isabella's split was 1.58.

For comparison Henry Ruggs was 1.43. DK was 145.

Brian Burns, Chase Winovich and Montez Sweat at Edge had the same 10 yard split as Isabella. In fact Burns and Winivich were 0.01 faster.

Sadly, for all the talk of Rondale Moore's speed his 10 yard split was also 1.58.

Also I appreciate punters more after watching this video. That looks hard.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Yup Andy might have decent long speed (I'm still not convinced) but his 10 yard split at the combine was slower than DK who has about 45 lbs on him.

Isabella's split was 1.58.

For comparison Henry Ruggs was 1.43. DK was 145.

Brian Burns, Chase Winovich and Montez Sweat at Edge had the same 10 yard split as Isabella. In fact Burns and Winivich were 0.01 faster.

Sadly, for all the talk of Rondale Moore's speed his 10 yard split was also 1.58.

Also I appreciate punters more after watching this video. That looks hard.

Granted, Turk just might be a really good athlete and not the norm for the position and is pretty damn fast himself. Isabella just does not look fluid when I see him play, cannot really change direction (Moore can) to compliment his long speed and tends to body catch the ball. I will never get why a guy like Dortch gets signed or what it must be like to be him. Franchises get loyal to early round picks out of pride when the main pride should be winning games. I really do not know what else a guy like Dortch has to do to say he belongs on the roster while what I am privy to as a fan says what has Isabella done to belong. I have been a fan of Johnson but either he or Isabella have to go because at least for me I see value in Dortch 'the torch' lol

 

[Jetstream Green]

Kirk had 1 target in 9 snaps only 4 of which were passing attempts for a 1st team offense that went 3 and out 3 times. Harsh to really judge him on that

I thought he had two, one where he quit on the route and other where he was unable to hold on to the ball even though beating the defender to the initial spot... that has to be play on a QB's trust one would think

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Well, I stayed the whole game because it was only mildly interesting in the 4th qtr.

The team, overall, looked tired and disinterested in actually playing the Chiefs. You would think they get jacked to play a team like KC, even in preseason. But you would be wrong.

These first two games we got thoroughly beat up in the trenches. I can't decide if the DL or OL play has been worse in these two preseason games. 9 sacks on our QBs and zero on theirs. They have run the ball down our throats, we haven't done squat on the ground unless it has been garbage time with Streveler running the offense.

Yes guys not playing... preseason.... I get it. But if this team doesn't find some heart and pride, the Titans will wax us.

The starting oline play is concerning to me.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

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Right? It pisses off kliff? Could’ve fooled me.

 

[DVontel]

The starting oline play is concerning to me.

There were two starters missing weren’t they?

 

[Arz101]

this is not said enough in this thread. Zaven Collins has vision with speed. Very excited to watch how he does in regular season.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yup Andy might have decent long speed (I'm still not convinced) but his 10 yard split at the combine was slower than DK who has about 45 lbs on him.

Isabella's split was 1.58.

For comparison Henry Ruggs was 1.43. DK was 145.

Brian Burns, Chase Winovich and Montez Sweat at Edge had the same 10 yard split as Isabella. In fact Burns and Winivich were 0.01 faster.

Sadly, for all the talk of Rondale Moore's speed his 10 yard split was also 1.58.

Also I appreciate punters more after watching this video. That looks hard.

Agreed. The variations are gay Turk uses for different effect was pretty interesting.

 

[Arz101]

There were two starters missing weren’t they?

Nice way of saying the line has issues but your wish is the sum will be greater than it's parts.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

There were two starters missing weren’t they?

Well I think the right guard is open to interpretation. Is there a legitimate starter at that position? And last week it was four starters and josh jones and frankly was subpar. And dj got beat badly yesterday. Not to mention, how many olines remain intact for a full season? If the plug-ins are that bad now doesn’t bode well for midseason when we likely have to lean on them again.

 

[DVontel]

Well I think the right guard is open to interpretation. Is there a legitimate starter at that position? And last week it was four starters and josh jones and frankly was subpar. And dj got beat badly yesterday. Not to mention, how many olines remain intact for a full season? If the plug-ins are that bad now doesn’t bode well for midseason when we likely have to lean on them again.

I don’t remember anything from last week outside of Rondale & that Zaven TFL tbh.

Pugh definitely was missed & Chris Jones abusing DJ like that was, but not surprising considering who Chris Jones is.

Hopefully at least Hudson-Pugh-Hump all stay intact for the full season.

 

[BritCard]

I thought he had two, one where he quit on the route and other where he was unable to hold on to the ball even though beating the defender to the initial spot... that has to be play on a QB's trust one would think

Box score says 1 so no idea

 

[BritCard]

Could be worse. We could be the Bears.