Cards Trade Request Will Be Met

Krangodnzr

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I disagree on Alt a bit. He has to get stronger if he is going to stick. There are some Matt Kalil and Nate Solder issues he will have to avoid.
I think Alt is Solder a few years into his career, not Solder coming out.

He actually cleaned up some technique issues he had early in the year by the end of the season, so you know he was taking coaching.
 

Krangodnzr

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Remember that Fuaga is the more physical of the two players, and actually plays RT which is where the Chargers have the opening.
Which is why a trade down is appealing to the Chargers.

I know @Solar7 was saying Harbaugh was throwing a smokescreen, but he could very well be putting out the message that "Hey we want a tackle, so start preparing bids."
 

Krangodnzr

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Disagree. Actually think he is one of the safer QBs. His game translates very well.
I was watching Alex Rollins film breakdown of McCarthy and it was shocking how often he misread the play design. That was his biggest takeaway from film study on him.

For a guy who supposed to be cerebral that was pretty shocking.

Rollins' film study on Pennix showed how much he just yolo'ed the ball to Odunze and Odunze bailed him. That tape actually demonstrated how good Odunze was last year.
 

Chopper0080

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Disagree. You can get low-end game managers a dime a dozen. They don't win anything or spark an offense, but hey, those three and outs will look better than INTs.
Here is where I differ.

McCarthy knows HOW to win football games. His best passer rating by down is 4th down. 10.3 yard avg on this throws, 87.5% completion rate, and 0 ints. When does McCarthy run most? 3rd down. 0 ints on 3rd down. 1 int on the road. So he knows when you are on the road you can't contribute to the struggle. His 3rd best QB rating by month? January. When the games mean the most.

The game manager when facing Alabama and needed a TD to tie the game with 4:41 left. 3/4 60 yards, 16 yards rushing. Generated every 1st down either via pass or running. TD. You don't do that if you haven't prepared throughout the year to be able to execute in that moment.

McCarthy isn't that far off of a prospect than Bryce Young IMO, and when comparing what he lacks in throwing attempts, he makes up in size. You just have to get past the lack of gaudy stats IMO and look at the skill set.
 

Chopper0080

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Fashanu? Did something happen with him that he’s fallen out of The Discourse?
He did not have the year of growth that people hoped he would have. And his demeanor is a little less aggressive than some of these other guys. Still a good prospect.
 

Stout

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Here is where I differ.

McCarthy knows HOW to win football games. His best passer rating by down is 4th down. 10.3 yard avg on this throws, 87.5% completion rate, and 0 ints. When does McCarthy run most? 3rd down. 0 ints on 3rd down. 1 int on the road. So he knows when you are on the road you can't contribute to the struggle. His 3rd best QB rating by month? January. When the games mean the most.

The game manager when facing Alabama and needed a TD to tie the game with 4:41 left. 3/4 60 yards, 16 yards rushing. Generated every 1st down either via pass or running. TD. You don't do that if you haven't prepared throughout the year to be able to execute in that moment.

McCarthy isn't that far off of a prospect than Bryce Young IMO, and when comparing what he lacks in throwing attempts, he makes up in size. You just have to get past the lack of gaudy stats IMO and look at the skill set.
In college. Plenty of guys can do that in college and not at all be ready to do that in the pros. He was a nonentity in the QB discussion and suddenly shot up draft boards because...hmm, I wonder why? If Tom Brady didn't exist JJ would be a mid-round QB, let's face it.
 

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There’s no way you wait until 2026 to collect on one of those 1st round picks, so Denver is out. I would take Minnesota’s 3 first round picks AND a 3rd rounder this year. With that load, you trade back with LAC, as Harbaugh definitely wants to trade back, and still get MHJ. If LAC decides to pick, they may very well take an OL, as Harbaugh wants to build a nasty OL. Then trade back with either NYG or ATL & grab one of the remaining stud WR’s.
Not bad. Not bad at all PA.....
 

phillycard

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Yes, but Quentin Johnston was embarrassingly bad. Michael Wilson massively outperformed him in less games. If you guys think we need to be concerned with Wilson as our #2... QJ is even more alarming.

And Josh Palmer is a #3.
I'm gonna zip my mouth with the Quentin observation. I reaaaaally wanted that guy.
 

Solar7

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This is misstating the theory a bit. The argument is that there is less value and return drafting RBs in round 1, and paying them a huge 2nd contract. That is the argument. There is also less value investing higher draft picks or spending large contracts at RB if you are going to use a committee of players. You can find specialists all over.

Plenty of examples of quality teams using this strategy. Chiefs 1st round RB busted...later round RB very good. Ravens have a low investment into the RB position. The Bills are another example. There are more but that is the gist.

RB isn't without value, but you no longer have to invest premium picks or long term dollars to get that value.
Ehhh, agree to disagree here. I've read a lot of comments from people (and I don't have the time to dig and say exactly who at the moment) who have made it pretty clear they feel like they can make it work with late rounders and that they're prevalent in the league. I agree with you on that second contract being a pretty scary thing, though.

But even in a "committee," most teams have a lead back or intend to have one. Pacheco isn't part of a committee, and as you mentioned, the Chiefs tried to invest more into the position, the guy just busted. But Pacheco is one of the few major outliers of a successful late pick. The Ravens are very invested, so I'm not sure where you're coming from... they have Derrick Henry. And even before that, Dobbins, a 2nd round pick, was supposed to be their guy if it weren't for injury. Similar for the Bills... they're running a 2nd round pick out there in James Cook as their starter, who is getting the majority of the carries and doesn't have a true competitor for snaps.

The 1st or 2nd round RB is becoming more en vogue as of late.
 

Chopper0080

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I was watching Alex Rollins film breakdown of McCarthy and it was shocking how often he misread the play design. That was his biggest takeaway from film study on him.

For a guy who supposed to be cerebral that was pretty shocking.

Rollins' film study on Pennix showed how much he just yolo'ed the ball to Odunze and Odunze bailed him. That tape actually demonstrated how good Odunze was last year.
For me, Alex Rollins is less reliable diagnosing the intentions of football plays / reads than PFF.
 

Chopper0080

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In college. Plenty of guys can do that in college and not at all be ready to do that in the pros. He was a nonentity in the QB discussion and suddenly shot up draft boards because...hmm, I wonder why? If Tom Brady didn't exist JJ would be a mid-round QB, let's face it.
Kyler Murray didn't. Disagree on the Tom Brady reasoning as well. No one is putting their NFL scouting or Front Office career on the line trying to connect a dot from Tom Brady to JJ McCarthy.
 

ASUCHRIS

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I rarely agree with Jonny Venerable and Bo Brak, but in this case I do. Just draft MHJ and move on. Don’t overthink this
Yeah - it would be one thing if we had a legit #1 WR and a deficit of draft capital. We have the opposite, so why not get what we need while still having plenty of draft capital?
 

Chopper0080

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Ehhh, agree to disagree here. I've read a lot of comments from people (and I don't have the time to dig and say exactly who at the moment) who have made it pretty clear they feel like they can make it work with late rounders and that they're prevalent in the league. I agree with you on that second contract being a pretty scary thing, though.

But even in a "committee," most teams have a lead back or intend to have one. Pacheco isn't part of a committee, and as you mentioned, the Chiefs tried to invest more into the position, the guy just busted. But Pacheco is one of the few major outliers of a successful late pick. The Ravens are very invested, so I'm not sure where you're coming from... they have Derrick Henry. And even before that, Dobbins, a 2nd round pick, was supposed to be their guy if it weren't for injury. Similar for the Bills... they're running a 2nd round pick out there in James Cook as their starter, who is getting the majority of the carries and doesn't have a true competitor for snaps.

The 1st or 2nd round RB is becoming more en vogue as of late.
Derrick Henry is a 2 year deal totaling 16 mil. Not a heavy investment.

In terms of "en vogue", 6 RBs total have been drafted in round 1 since 2019. There will likely not be a RB drafted in round 1 this year. So I don't feel like that constitutes a trend. Of the two RBs whom were drafted in round 1 in 2019 and 2020, none received a 2nd contract from the team that drafted them. The trend that is playing out is a majority of RBs being drafted in rounds 2-6 which is not a revelation but just highlights teams generally aren't drafting RBs in the first or last round of the draft.
 

kerouac9

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Lumping starting RBs into "the first three rounds" doesn't make a lot of sense to me. As @Chopper0080 notes above, very few RBs are going in the first round of late, and fewer still meet or exceed expectations there.

There's probably a market inefficiency at veteran running back where you can get players who will outperform their contracts, but you have a risk of recycling those guys every two or three years.
 

Krangodnzr

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For me, Alex Rollins is less reliable diagnosing the intentions of football plays / reads than PFF.
Disagree.

When you see simple passing concepts that are used to attack specific coverages and McCarthy is throwing to receivers that aren't open and the obvious targets are, it's not too hard to diagnose that this is an issue.

I don't have the time to go through tape like he does, but it's pretty apparent he's right about McCarthy when you see him discuss it.
 

football karma

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If Tom Brady didn't exist JJ would be a mid-round QB, let's face it.
i think JJ is overrated, but i disagree here

i think the fact that rookie contracts are pre-negotiated at a reasonable level, and even "B" level vet QBs are insanely expensive (see Kirk Cousins) -- it makes teams more willing to take a shot at a rookie QB in the draft.

so if you need a QB, you can overdraft one because if he works -- you have what you critically need, but if he doesnt, its just a burned 1st rounder --

as an example: the Josh Rosen miss by itself didnt really set the Cardinals back materially.
 

Solar7

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Lumping starting RBs into "the first three rounds" doesn't make a lot of sense to me. As @Chopper0080 notes above, very few RBs are going in the first round of late, and fewer still meet or exceed expectations there.

There's probably a market inefficiency at veteran running back where you can get players who will outperform their contracts, but you have a risk of recycling those guys every two or three years.
I think the issue in my book has been that for the past say, 5 years, there's a lot of vocal people who said starting RBs can be had outside of day 2 "commonly." Or that they're everywhere.

I know the era of the true bellcow RB is mostly dead, but most teams still have a main guy who dominates in snap share. And those guys come in the first two days of picks.

Derrick Henry is a 2 year deal totaling 16 mil. Not a heavy investment.

In terms of "en vogue", 6 RBs total have been drafted in round 1 since 2019. There will likely not be a RB drafted in round 1 this year. So I don't feel like that constitutes a trend. Of the two RBs whom were drafted in round 1 in 2019 and 2020, none received a 2nd contract from the team that drafted them. The trend that is playing out is a majority of RBs being drafted in rounds 2-6 which is not a revelation but just highlights teams generally aren't drafting RBs in the first or last round of the draft.
It could go up to $20 million, so no, not breaking the bank, but still counting on one guy to be the primary back.

And we primarily agree on the 2nd contract thing - but if you want a guy who is going to be your #1, you're pretty much going to need to use a day 1-2 pick or pay up. Hell, look at RB contracts this year, things picked up across the board.
 

Chopper0080

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I feel it is reasonable to believe you can address the RB position with some combination of 6-9 mil short-term vet contract and/or using 2nd-6th round draft picks. How the Cardinals have addressed the RB position is an easy example.

How that falls into the convo over the past 5 years, I don't know or really care.
 

Chopper0080

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Ugh. Sometimes I look for info and find gross surprises.

"Fun" Fact. Cardinals are 4th in the NFL this year in positional spending on RB. 16.1 mil. 49ers are 3rd at 17.2 mil.

Thanks Monti. (For context Monti is spending 5.1 mil on DeeJay Dallas and Michael Carter. The Austin Eckler cap hits for his 2 year deal are 3.3 and 5.1 mil.)
 

Mulli

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Ugh. Sometimes I look for info and find gross surprises.

"Fun" Fact. Cardinals are 4th in the NFL this year in positional spending on RB. 16.1 mil. 49ers are 3rd at 17.2 mil.

Thanks Monti. (For context Monti is spending 5.1 mil on DeeJay Dallas and Michael Carter. The Austin Eckler cap hits for his 2 year deal are 3.3 and 5.1 mil.)
Huh?
 

DVontel

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They would draft Alt, move Slater inside or Pipkins inside. Pipkins is only OK.
You can replace Slater & Pipkins with Paris & Jonah here & it would still be accurate. Actually, probably not considering Slater is better than Paris & Pipkins is better than Jonah.

The Chargers & us are literally mirror-images of each other with having the same holes.
 

Krangodnzr

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You can replace Slater & Pipkins with Paris & Jonah here & it would still be accurate. Actually, probably not considering Slater is better than Paris & Pipkins is better than Jonah.

The Chargers & us are literally mirror-images of each other with having the same holes.
The entire Chargers OL was all really bad run blocking last year. None of them graded positively, not even Slater.

Harbaugh wants to run the football and play good defense. That's what he always wants to do every where he's coached. He just won the Natty that way and he's going to do the same thing with the Chargers.
 
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