Cardinals Head Coaching Candidates 2023

[Chopper0080]

This is what I don't get about the Flores hire. As if he's just going to do the same thing that didn't work for him before because this time it will surely work.

Do people think Flores isn't fully aware the big issue for him was getting the offense right? And is just going to do the same thing again?

I assume you will make the same argument for Kyler coming off his worst season and his GM and HC being fired.

 

[Russ Smith]

This is what I don't get about the Flores hire. As if he's just going to do the same thing that didn't work for him before because this time it will surely work.

Do people think Flores isn't fully aware the big issue for him was getting the offense right? And is just going to do the same thing again?

not to mention he didn't exactly have Dan Marino at QB when he was the coach there.

 

[BritCard]

I assume you will make the same argument for Kyler coming off his worst season and his GM and HC being fired.

Would I make the argument that people can learn from their mistakes and improve? Including Kyler? Of course I would.

Not sure why you keep using Kyler takes you yourself have argued. You said just recently you doubt Kyler can change his spots.

 

[QuebecCard]

I believe the net may have a hole in it.

All nets do.

 

[slanidrac16]

Solid defense and a solid running game would cure a lot of ills on this team. It would make our passing game better along taking the weight off of Kylers shoulders.
I’m really going to be dumbfounded if Kafka is our guy. It goes against everything Bidwill and MO stated.

 

[Chopper0080]

Would I make the argument that people can learn from their mistakes and improve? Including Kyler? Of course I would.

Not sure why you keep using Kyler takes you yourself have argued. You said just recently you doubt Kyler can change his spots.

Because I consistently argue that you can't count on people changing who they are after a certain age. I am not arguing that one year after Flores was fired he is going to be significantly different. I am not arguing that after his worst season and his HC and GM getting fired Kyler is going to be a different QB. Others are and I disagree with them.

My issue is that you are not consistent in how you apply your belief. You argue Kyler won't change on his own but for some reason Flores will.

 

[Chopper0080]

Solid defense and a solid running game would cure a lot of ills on this team. It would make our passing game better along taking the weight off of Kylers shoulders.
I’m really going to be dumbfounded if Kafka is our guy. It goes against everything Bidwill and MO stated.

Again, I think this is a bit of revisionist history with Flores. His run game was never better than 22nd in total rush yards and 29th in yards per carry in his three years at Miami. Also, only one season was in the top 15 in points allowed by his defense (oddly enough his second year).

 

[slanidrac16]

Again, I think this is a bit of revisionist history with Flores. His run game was never better than 22nd in total rush yards and 29th in yards per carry in his three years at Miami. Also, only one season was in the top 15 in points allowed by his defense (oddly enough his second year).

I’m not saying it will be successful but I would see this team TRYING to turn into Steelers West. Pound the ball then go over the top.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

I'm coming out and saying no to Flores

1 - I don't like the lawsuit hanging out there
2 - I don't think he has the ability to bring out the best in the offense and KM
3 - His track record is not that impressive despite the late season win streak by the Dolphins. We've had experience in how that can be deceiving if not done over a long period of time

I agree with a lot of what @Chopper0080 had brought up

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Because I consistently argue that you can't count on people changing who they are after a certain age. I am not arguing that one year after Flores was fired he is going to be significantly different. I am not arguing that after his worst season and his HC and GM getting fired Kyler is going to be a different QB. Others are and I disagree with them.

My issue is that you are not consistent in how you apply your belief. You argue Kyler won't change on his own but for some reason Flores will.

I understand where you're coming from...I just hate dealing in all things being absolute. The NY Football Giants wouldn't have had their 2 most recent Super Bowls if their HC hadn't completely flipped the script on his own, long time way of coaching. I mean, he became a new person and it had immediate results...in his 60's.

 

[Chopper0080]

I’m not saying it will be successful but I would see this team TRYING to turn into Steelers West. Pound the ball then go over the top.

You said a solid running game would cure a lot of ills. My point is that Flores has never produced a solid running game.

 

[Chopper0080]

I understand where you're coming from...I just hate dealing in all things being absolute. The NY Football Giants wouldn't have had their 2 most recent Super Bowls if their HC hadn't completely flipped the script on his own, long time way of coaching. I mean, he became a new person and it had immediate results...in his 60's.

You are correct that it can happen. I do agree with that. I just don't think you can count on it. If you want to hire Flores, hire Flores based upon what he did in Miami. Not based upon what you hope he will do differently now.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Flores would be a wild choice for a team that is basically dependent on Kyler turning the corner to have any chance of competing in the short term.

He better have a damn good plan in place to fix Kyler if Flores is the move.

 

[BritCard]

Because I consistently argue that you can't count on people changing who they are after a certain age. I am not arguing that one year after Flores was fired he is going to be significantly different. I am not arguing that after his worst season and his HC and GM getting fired Kyler is going to be a different QB. Others are and I disagree with them.

My issue is that you are not consistent in how you apply your belief. You argue Kyler won't change on his own but for some reason Flores will.

Man I feel like I'm explaining how the Sky is Blue. There is no inconsistency.

Learning from your mistakes is not "changing who you are". I'm 46 years old and continually learning from my mistakes. We saw Kliff grow as a head coach and fix issues from previous seasons in his first 3 years in the league. There's no reason to believe that Flores won't learn from the mistakes he made in Miami that led to him getting fired. It would be low IQ not to. In fact he tried to learn and fix then at the time by cycling through OC's. Maybe he won't, but there's no reason to believe he can't.

Kyler can also do this, I just don't believe he will. The reason I don't believe he will is that he hasn't been fired or punished in any way for his poor choices. Just the opposite, he got paid. He has no incentive to change outside of personal ambition but his behaviour over the past 4 years has shown a tendency to think his failures are not his own fault because he doesn't seem to have changed how he operates. He's still largely making the same mistakes and having the same issues as he had when he came into the league. He still has the same mechanic issues, still poor under C, still throws off his back foot, still poor throwing on the run despite being mobile, still struggles reading defenses, hasn't took coaching in the offseason like most great QB's etc etc

He's had the opportunity to show he can change already and hasn't, so I have no reason to believe he will in the future.

 

[FB94]

Solid defense and a solid running game would cure a lot of ills on this team. It would make our passing game better along taking the weight off of Kylers shoulders.
I’m really going to be dumbfounded if Kafka is our guy. It goes against everything Bidwill and MO stated.

Yes please retool this team into a tough physical group on both sides with a strong run game that doesn’t put the world on KM’s shoulders all the time

 

[mobyhammy]

Not happy with the way this coaching search has been conducted, but I feel good about Flores and Anarumo. I realize that this job is not the most desirable given the current roster and QB situation. Whoever takes this job will have to be given some time to do the job. It isn't going to be turned around overnight. Kyle Shanahan had a 4-12 season and two seasons of 6-10 before the 49ers became who they are.

I'm not that worried about Flores and the offense. He'll have to get a good OC. In Miami, he took over a team with a terrible roster and iffy QB situation. He had seasons of 10-6 and 9-8 with barely competent RBs and an offensive line that was ranked last in the NFL. After Flores was fired, Tua admitted that as a rookie he didn't study as hard as he should have (sound familiar?) and didn't understand the playbook.

 

[BritCard]

Again, I think this is a bit of revisionist history with Flores. His run game was never better than 22nd in total rush yards and 29th in yards per carry in his three years at Miami. Also, only one season was in the top 15 in points allowed by his defense (oddly enough his second year).

He had absolutely trash rosters. Both sides.

RB's were trash.

WR's outside Waddle in his last year. Trash.

O line. Trash.

For 2 years his edge rush was Van Noy and Van Ginkle and the 3rd swapped Van Noy for rookie Philips.

The offense especially was garbage.

Yet, he still had 2 winning seasons that in any other year, including this one, would have made the playoffs.

I'm not sure how much input you think the guy that wanted Herbert and who they tried to pay to tank had in roster construction.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Flores as HC and Wilks as DC . What lawsuit???

 

[ASUCHRIS]

We saw Kliff grow as a head coach and fix issues from previous seasons in his first 3 years in the league.

"I definitely felt like we were on the right path," Baker said. "You know in training camp it was definitely startling to not see a lot of the starters practicing and stuff like that. Cause I knew, you know especially with the preseason games none of us played in the preseason, it's kinda just going through training camp, which was not a lot of people, and then we get to Week 1, it showed who was prepared. I don't think we were as prepared in the beginning of when it all started than what we could've been."

Many of us saw this coming a mile away - obviously you still haven't figured it out.

 

[MadCardDisease]

You are correct that it can happen. I do agree with that. I just don't think you can count on it. If you want to hire Flores, hire Flores based upon what he did in Miami. Not based upon what you hope he will do differently now.

Exactly!

Flores created a competitive team really quickly all while having to manage a meddlesome owner. Not just meddlesome but an owner who asked Flores to break the rules and look the other way. To his credit Flores never compromised his integrity and probably got fired for protecting the NFL shield. There is a reason why there are only 31 first round picks this year and only 31 second round picks in the 2024 NFL Draft.

One thing is for sure Flores never had his team quit on him like we saw here in Arizona.

 

[Chopper0080]

He had absolutely trash rosters. Both sides.

RB's were trash.

WR's outside Waddle in his last year. Trash.

O line. Trash.

For 2 years his edge rush was Van Noy and Van Ginkle and the 3rd swapped Van Noy for rookie Philips.

The offense especially was garbage.

Yet, he still had 2 winning seasons that in any other year, including this one, would have made the playoffs.

I'm not sure how much input you think the guy that wanted Herbert and who they tried to pay to tank had in roster construction.

Having a legitimate conversation with you is so difficult because it is tough to determine when excuses are excuses and when they are reasons. When stats matter and when they don't. When winning % matters and when it doesn't. When a person can change and when they can't change.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

"I definitely felt like we were on the right path," Baker said. "You know in training camp it was definitely startling to not see a lot of the starters practicing and stuff like that. Cause I knew, you know especially with the preseason games none of us played in the preseason, it's kinda just going through training camp, which was not a lot of people, and then we get to Week 1, it showed who was prepared. I don't think we were as prepared in the beginning of when it all started than what we could've been."

Many of us saw this coming a mile away - obviously you still haven't figured it out.

I can't believe I'm defending Brit, but isn't what Budda is saying kinda correlate? He thought they were on a good path, and then TC and PreSeason made them unprepared? You can read that as Budda thought until this year they were on a good path, just as Brit wrote Kliff actually grew his 1st 3 years...Then this year, it all went to crap.

 

[Chopper0080]

Exactly!

Flores created a competitive team really quickly all while having to manage a meddlesome owner. Not just meddlesome but an owner who asked Flores to break the rules and look the other way. To his credit Flores never compromised his integrity and probably got fired for protecting the NFL shield. There is a reason why there are only 31 first round picks this year and only 31 second round picks in the 2024 NFL Draft.

One thing is for sure Flores never had his team quit on him like we saw here in Arizona.

I can understand this argument even if I don't agree with it. Thank you.

 

[Chopper0080]

Man I feel like I'm explaining how the Sky is Blue. There is no inconsistency.

Learning from your mistakes is not "changing who you are". I'm 46 years old and continually learning from my mistakes. We saw Kliff grow as a head coach and fix issues from previous seasons in his first 3 years in the league. There's no reason to believe that Flores won't learn from the mistakes he made in Miami that led to him getting fired. It would be low IQ not to. In fact he tried to learn and fix then at the time by cycling through OC's. Maybe he won't, but there's no reason to believe he can't.

Kyler can also do this, I just don't believe he will. The reason I don't believe he will is that he hasn't been fired or punished in any way for his poor choices. Just the opposite, he got paid. He has no incentive to change outside of personal ambition but his behaviour over the past 4 years has shown a tendency to think his failures are not his own fault because he doesn't seem to have changed how he operates. He's still largely making the same mistakes and having the same issues as he had when he came into the league. He still has the same mechanic issues, still poor under C, still throws off his back foot, still poor throwing on the run despite being mobile, still struggles reading defenses, hasn't took coaching in the offseason like most great QB's etc etc

He's had the opportunity to show he can change already and hasn't, so I have no reason to believe he will in the future.

Yeah...we aren't speaking the same language if you feel this postt is not inconsistent.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I can't believe I'm defending Brit, but isn't what Budda is saying kinda correlate?

No. There is a narrative that everything was on the right track, which was obliterated by the 2nd half of the season/playoff game. (Which JJ rightly called a failure) Instead, MB was handing out extensions like candy, and the team was satisfied.

There was no momentum heading into the offseason, and the 2023 season was a reflection of all the problems that Kyler no longer was cleaning up. He did it in the Raiders game, but that was about it.

He thought they were on a good path, and then TC and PreSeason made them unprepared?

Camp cupcake was roundly criticized here, along with starters basically taking off the preseason. The saddest thing was that the 2022 season was celebrated as some sort of accomplishment of a goal, instead of a rude awakening that this team needed to be a hell of a lot more disciplined and prepared if they wanted to take the next step.