Cardinals at Browns gameday thread 11-5-23

[bankybruce]

On Tune:

No designed runs today for Clayton Tune. Very surprising. And not really a fair chance in this situation, but both those interceptions were bad.

Would Dobbs have done better than Tune? Hmmm... probably. Astro looks like he might be a little better runner which was desperately needed vs. CLE.

I was watching Dobbs run today and while he makes guys miss, like a lot, he looks slow. It's so odd to watch, but he gets it done.

 

[kerouac9]

I don't think you can evaluate him without Kyler. QB play just been so bad, and he has been trying to protect the defense (imo). Dude also has very liitle experience so the expectation was a work in progress.

Correct. Petzing wasn’t hired to coach up Clayton Tune. He was hired to orchestrate an offense for Kyler Murray. We have to see if they can work together before deciding anything.

@DVontel is right that he’s wrung a lot of quality from this offense while waiting for Kyler to be ready.

I was watching Dobbs run today and while he makes guys miss, like a lot, he looks slow. It's so odd to watch, but he gets it done.

Speed isn’t everything. It’s really about finding space and working angles. The Falcons weren’t really prepared for Josh Dobbs; it’ll be interesting to see what happens next week.

 

[TJ]

I watched maybe 5 min of the game in the second quarter. That was near Seahawks 58-0 bad

 

[Dayman]

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[AZCrazy]

Well, this was the first game this year that they just had no chance. Outgunned from the start.
The D did the best it could.
The O line couldn't hold against a ferocious Browns D Line, and Tune had no idea where to turn. Tough spot for a first game.

 

[Russ Smith]

Correct. Petzing wasn’t hired to coach up Clayton Tune. He was hired to orchestrate an offense for Kyler Murray. We have to see if they can work together before deciding anything.

@DVontel is right that he’s wrung a lot of quality from this offense while waiting for Kyler to be ready.

Speed isn’t everything. It’s really about finding space and working angles. The Falcons weren’t really prepared for Josh Dobbs; it’ll be interesting to see what happens next week.

Yep our run game has been effective even after Conner went down. Losing DeMercado and Dobbs before the Browns game pretty much guaranteed that wouldn't be the case yesterday. Take away 28 yards from Tune and we had 16 carries for 13 yards!

There was just no way a rookie in his debut game was going to do anything against that pass rush with they level of talent we put on the field around him.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Yep our run game has been effective even after Conner went down. Losing DeMercado and Dobbs before the Browns game pretty much guaranteed that wouldn't be the case yesterday. Take away 28 yards from Tune and we had 16 carries for 13 yards!

There was just no way a rookie in his debut game was going to do anything against that pass rush with they level of talent we put on the field around him.

Tune also didn't help himself. Granted I understand that even greats like Brady started to buckle under relentless pass rushes, but Tune made some comically bad throws that if he completed, he could have slowed down the rush a little bit.

 

[BritCard]

Yes. Those guys get help against JJ Watt and Bosa and Garrett. That’s how it works.

BS. They might rarely get help on 3rd and long but Hump needed help on every down yesterday. He got whooped. Time to move on.

Plus they gave him help from the LG a number of time.

 

[football karma]

it was pretty clear that the Browns defense took the POV that until the Tune / Cards could take a longer pass drop and throw down the field, it was crashing the run game and the short stuff -- they dared the outside WRs to beat their corners and for Tune to find them (which never happened).

 

[Garthshort]

At last, some good news for Cardinals' fans.

"College basketball season starts tonight."

 

[Krangodnzr]

BS. They might rarely get help on 3rd and long but Hump needed help on every down yesterday. He got whooped. Time to move on.

Plus they gave him help from the LG a number of time.

Bro, Garrett is beating everyone like that right now.

 

[Krangodnzr]

it was pretty clear that the Browns defense took the POV that until the Tune / Cards could take a longer pass drop and throw down the field, it was crashing the run game and the short stuff -- they dared the outside WRs to beat their corners and for Tune to find them (which never happened).

The best way to beat a pass rush is to beat people down field. Make them push the coverage focus to intermediate and deep routes. Granted, Petzing didn't give Tune many opportunities for those looks, but when he did it was a disaster.

 

[juza76]

Tune also didn't help himself. Granted I understand that even greats like Brady started to buckle under relentless pass rushes, but Tune made some comically bad throws that if he completed, he could have slowed down the rush a little bit.

I think his game would have been a little bit different without the questionable penalty on his pass to Moore on the sideline
I'm not judging his skillset but the guy to me looked mentally weak,totally confused reading plays, probably the long pass could have given more confidence on his abilities

 

[football karma]

my oddball question:

Do you think Keontay Ingram does something to telegraph runs?

I have never seen a back where the moment he comes in, he is met 3 yards deep in the backfield on his runs.

I get yesterday was bad for everyone -- but this has been true even in good rushing days for the Cards

 

[Chopper0080]

my oddball question:

Do you think Keontay Ingram does something to telegraph runs?

I have never seen a back where the moment he comes in, he is met 3 yards deep in the backfield on his runs.

I get yesterday was bad for everyone -- but this has been true even in good rushing days for the Cards

Yes, he enters the game.

 

[BirdGangThing]

Yes, he enters the game.

lol ur wrong for that man - jokes aside - could be a formation thing being recognized or the fact Ingram can't pass protect

 

[BritCard]

Bro, Garrett is beating everyone like that right now.

Let's see when the stats are out on Wednesday but he isn't beating everyone like that.

Vs Trent Williams he had 0 sacks and 1 pressure.

And let's not pretend it's just against Garrett. He's been pretty poor all season. Especially for a guy they were looking to to lead the line.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Let's see when the stats are out on Wednesday but he isn't beating everyone like that.

Vs Trent Williams he had 0 sacks and 1 pressure.

And let's not pretend it's just against Garrett. He's been pretty poor all season. Especially for a guy they were looking to to lead the line.

Stats are weird because I saw a pressure rate when Garrett played against Trent Williams that stated he had a 33% pass rush win rate which is astronomical.

 

[Dayman]

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[elindholm]

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So the solution is to throw to receivers who are behind the line of scrimmage?

 

[kerouac9]

I don't really know what more Petzing could've done to protect or support Tune. 20 passing attempts in a game where we were down by 2 scores at halftime is about a simplifying as it gets.

We might as well have punted on 3rd down.

 

[Chopper0080]

lol ur wrong for that man - jokes aside - could be a formation thing being recognized or the fact Ingram can't pass protect

Ingram had 9 carries and 10 routes run on 20 snaps with zero targets.

Tony Jones had 3 carries and 15 routes run on 22 snaps with 3 targets.

So I joke, but it is telegraphed by the player in at RB to a degree.

 

[Chopper0080]

I don't really know what more Petzing could've done to protect or support Tune. 20 passing attempts in a game where we were down by 2 scores at halftime is about a simplifying as it gets.

We might as well have punted on 3rd down.

Again, I am not going to drop a ton of blame on Petzing, the O line or the WRs when you have a QB who performed like Tune did in that game.

 

[Garthshort]

If Clayton Tune reads this Board he might have been overconfident, knowing all he had to do was to walk out on the field and he'd be better than Dobbs.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Tune also didn't help himself. Granted I understand that even greats like Brady started to buckle under relentless pass rushes, but Tune made some comically bad throws that if he completed, he could have slowed down the rush a little bit.

Was just about to make a similar comment. If Tune could/would have completed a few passes beyond the LOS early, the pass rush would have at least slowed a bit.