Booker injury

[Covert Rain]

They should under no circumstances rush him back. Any groin/leg injuries have the potential to haunt players for the rest of their careers. The area from the stomach down to the quads seems like things that always comeback to haunt players for some reason.

The team wasn't going anywhere this season and honestly I felt this was the time to give all the young guys extensive playing time to figure out what we have. I hate that Booker is injured and not playing to further develop. Worst case scenario he is out for an extended period of time and we get possibly another piece in the draft.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Getting high picks has not helped the Suns. Booker, Warren best players and lowest first round pick. Jackson, Len, Bender and Chriss Meh

Too early to say on jackson. Lens draft was a bad one. And it looks like bender and Chriss Draft wasn’t stellar either. So far this year’s crop looks amazing. Bagley, ayton, bamba all living up to freshman hype, doncic still impressive. Knock picking early all you want but show me where this team gets talent. They’ve shown an inability to add impactful talent via trade or free agent signing so draft remains primary avenue for talent acquisition.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yeah, that's where I am as well. I suspect most of us who get labeled "anti-tank" are on the same page.
I want my team to win, and will never root for them to lose. That said, I am not upset when they lose, as long as they compete.

I think you’re playing semantics. If you don’t get upset with a loss you are fine with losing which is really no different than wanting a loss. I am in the same boat with you as I want to see effort and development. I think I’m just a little more honest with myself in recognizing I’m okay with the short-term losses for the long-term gain.

 

[BC867]

Actually... no. Asking what it would take to turn people to the tank isn’t disrespectful. It’s curiosity. Ouchie never said HE HOPES he’s out for a while. You PROJECTED that on to him and thus made it a cheap shot, which again is a joke.

You polluted the board for DECADES about the team not doing what’s necessary to win a title. Now someone is doing the same.

So if you have ANY self-awareness, I’d expect you to Either apologize to everyone for bitching and moaning incessantly about the Colangelos and Centers or stop being such a hypocrite and giving others crap for doing exactly what you did... beat a dead horse until it’s a bloody pulp.

But I know you won’t do either because you obviously want to continue with flame wars. So keep at it. This thread was about basketball before you started bashing board members here. Congrats for elevating the discussion.

"Polluted the board"? "No self-awareness"? "Bitching and moaning"? "Hypocrite"? "Flame wars"? Wow! So personal!

All that because I reacted to a fellow poster citing the face of the franchise's injury as a plus to tanking. You can't understand how, when I read it so soon after losing Book, it sounded disrespectful?

As far as you repeating over and over about my dissatisfaction over the decades with the Sun's goal of making an appearance in the playoffs, I guess you didn't read my post a few weeks ago when I said that I can't believe I am now just rooting to see the Suns make the playoffs. So, you're not even the one who brought it up. I did.

The bottom line being that we have sunk from putting on a show to mediocrity and embarrassment, to the point of the Suns (management) being called the laughingstock of the NBA this season.

Since when is it a negative when a long time fan roots for his team to show progress every step of the way? Especially when the vantage point has been almost a half century? I am proud of my dedication to the Suns. And my hopes of seeing them become championship contenders. I am thirty-five years older than you, cheese. My posts reflect a different vantage point.

You'll notice that the only personal comment I've made about you ... is about your making a boatload of personal, derogatory remarks about me.

Y'know, cheese, I am not even primarily writing this post for you. I hope that the majority of our posters understand that it was uncomfortable reading a post making light of DBook's (possibly serious) injury to further the argument of tanking. Evidently you don't get it.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I was hoping that you or your tank commander friend wouldn't turn Booker's injury into your never ending obsession.

It's a cheap shot. As a Suns fan and an ASFN poster, I'm disappointed, Ouchie.

Wtf? I AMN asking a fact-based question. Nowhere did I try to argue any point in favor of tanking. I merely was curious if losing our best player changes anyone’s position on an ongoing discussion. Why do you guys have to always be on the friggin attack?!?

 

[pokerface]

"Polluted the board"? "No self-awareness"? "Bitching and moaning"? "Hypocrite"? "Flame wars"? Wow! So personal!

All that because I reacted to a fellow poster citing the face of the franchise's injury as a plus to tanking. You can't understand how, when I read it so soon after losing Book, it sounded disrespectful?

As far as you repeating over and over about my dissatisfaction over the decades with the Sun's goal of making an appearance in the playoffs, I guess you didn't read my post a few weeks ago when I said that I can't believe I am now just rooting to see the Suns make the playoffs. So, you're not even the one who brought it up. I did.

The bottom line being that we have sunk from putting on a show to mediocrity and embarrassment, to the point of the Suns (management) being called the laughingstock of the NBA this season.

Since when is it a negative when a long time fan roots for his team to show progress every step of the way? Especially when the vantage point has been almost a half century? I am proud of my dedication to the Suns. And my hopes of seeing them become championship contenders. I am thirty-five years older than you, cheese. My posts reflect a different vantage point.

You'll notice that the only personal comment I've made about you ... is about your making a boatload of personal, derogatory remarks about me.

Y'know, cheese, I am not even primarily writing this post for you. I hope that the majority of our posters understand that it was uncomfortable reading a post making light of DBook's (possibly serious) injury to further the argument of tanking. Evidently you don't get it.

Listen you are a decent poster but you like to judge...as do the other anti tankers. We "pro drafters" don't judge you guys. We don't tell you what to think or how to feel. We explain our point of view only be slammed anyway...and for what?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You don't think that Ouchie's comment, "Out of curiosity, how many weeks would Booker have had to be out for people here to have turned to the tank for the season?" as a reaction to DBook's groin injury was in bad taste? But my calling him was? C'mon.

You acknowledged that his comment was a cheap shot. That's what my post was about. Respect. Especially for our star player. Nothing more. Your tirade about opinion differences doesn't fit here.

What in the hell is disrepectful about my question?!? I mean, the spurs took HUGE advantage of injuries years ago to tank and snag Duncan. Was that disrespectful? Y’know what, I’m so friggin sick of the personal attacks because you cause don’t happen rb to share an opinion about how to get better. An opinion btw which has been shared by a number of professional sports GMs.

 

[pokerface]

Wtf? I AMN asking a fact-based question. Nowhere did I try to argue any point in favor of tanking. I merely was curious if losing our best player changes anyone’s position on an ongoing discussion. Why do you guys have to always be on the friggin attack?!?

That's my point. I feel like we're the scapegoats constantly. I wish they would understand we are just desperate for talent anyway we can get it. We are all suns fans on here... doesn't that count for something??

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

"Polluted the board"? "No self-awareness"? "Bitching and moaning"? "Hypocrite"? "Flame wars"? Wow! So personal!

All that because I reacted to a fellow poster citing the face of the franchise's injury as a plus to tanking. You can't understand how, when I read it so soon after losing Book, it sounded disrespectful?

As far as you repeating over and over about my dissatisfaction over the decades with the Sun's goal of making an appearance in the playoffs, I guess you didn't read my post a few weeks ago when I said that I can't believe I am now just rooting to see the Suns make the playoffs. So, you're not even the one who brought it up. I did.

The bottom line being that we have sunk from putting on a show to mediocrity and embarrassment, to the point of the Suns (management) being called the laughingstock of the NBA this season.

Since when is it a negative when a long time fan roots for his team to show progress every step of the way? Especially when the vantage point has been almost a half century? I am proud of my dedication to the Suns. And my hopes of seeing them become championship contenders. I am thirty-five years older than you, cheese. My posts reflect a different vantage point.

You'll notice that the only personal comment I've made about you ... is about your making a boatload of personal, derogatory remarks about me.

Y'know, cheese, I am not even primarily writing this post for you. I hope that the majority of our posters understand that it was uncomfortable reading a post making light of DBook's (possibly serious) injury to further the argument of tanking. Evidently you don't get it.

You know what? I may get banned for this, but SCREW YOU! You are putting AWFUL words in my mouth. I never argued, or even said, it was a “plus” for Booker to be injured. I never made light of Bookers injury. That’s on you jackass! That’s you projecting what you hoped I meant to somehow give you the false moral high ground to go on the attack. I am actually 100% offended by your words.

 

[pokerface]

These guys on here actually think they are "good guys"...lol.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Wtf? I AMN asking a fact-based question. Nowhere did I try to argue any point in favor of tanking. I merely was curious if losing our best player changes anyone’s position on an ongoing discussion. Why do you guys have to always be on the friggin attack?!?

Just one guy. The rest of us just answered the question.

 

[Phrazbit]

That's my point. I feel like we're the scapegoats constantly. I wish they would understand we are just desperate for talent anyway we can get it. We are all suns fans on here... doesn't that count for something??

You'd think so, Jack Merridew, but you seem to make each thread about drawing a line in the sand. I'm not tank or anti tank, but you seem to be obsessed with the idea.

You might not go off the rails like BC, but to pretend you're not deliberately devisive is a crock.

 

[pokerface]

You'd think so, Jack Merridew, but you seem to make each thread about drawing a line in the sand. I'm not tank or anti tank, but you seem to be obsessed with the idea.

You might not go off the rails like BC, but to pretend you're not deliberately devisive is a crock.

You've been nothing but a smart mouth troublemaker with me. And draw a line in the sand? Why... because I suggested the tank crew have thier own tank thread and not be hassled on it and we wouldn't spread our tank talk beyond it? I call it trying to be considerate...not drawing lines.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You'd think so, Jack Merridew, but you seem to make each thread about drawing a line in the sand. I'm not tank or anti tank, but you seem to be obsessed with the idea.

You might not go off the rails like BC, but to pretend you're not deliberately devisive is a crock.

@BC867 Here's one non-tank poster saying you went off the rails.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Just one guy. The rest of us just answered the question.

@BC867 here's another poster who agreed with Ouchie you attacked him.

Again, get some self-awareness. Coming out and attacking others then crying yourself the victim when others respond to your vitriol with your own is just weak.

 

[Chaplin]

Listen you are a decent poster but you like to judge...as do the other anti tankers. We "pro drafters" don't judge you guys. We don't tell you what to think or how to feel. We explain our point of view only be slammed anyway...and for what?

Your implication that we anti-tankers are also anti-draft is waaaay off base, poker.

 

[Phrazbit]

You've been nothing but a smart mouth troublemaker with me. And draw a line in the sand? Why... because I suggested the tank crew have thier own tank thread and not be hassled on it and we wouldn't spread our tank talk beyond it? I call it trying to be considerate...not drawing lines.

You're the one drawing lines... you have this stupid idea that we need to have a "tank crew and anti tank crew" and literally EVERY conversation you get involved in is "us vs them". You say stupid crap like "we pro drafters". You throw labels on everyone and rather than discuss and have discourse you want segregation, if people disagree with you, you immediately proclaim yourself the victim of some "anti draft" mob. BC goes off and you lump his words onto everyone else you disagree with.

It is embarrassing and it is killing the discourse of this board. For you to think you are NOT divisive when virtually every post you make is "us vs them" shows an astounding lack of self awareness.

I feel bad that a quality poster like Ouchie is getting lumped in with you.

 

[Carolinacacti]

It's helped the suns more than free agency....BY FAR.

The few players that are NBA ready on the Suns are Chandler, Monroe, Daniels and Dudley. I could put Knight in there if he was healthy. None where drafted by the Suns. Besides Booker and Warren the draft has not helped. Josh Jackson is not helping like you thought. Wait maybe your happy with Len, Chriss, Bender and J.J.
I'm not anti tank but I'm upset with the Players the Suns have drafted.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Your implication that we anti-tankers are also anti-draft is waaaay off base, poker.

So you want to win as many games as possible and get the highest pick possible. I understand the desire, but you can’t possibly deny that the two are kind of mutually exclusive, can you?

 

[Mainstreet]

So you want to win as many games as possible and get the highest pick possible. I understand the desire, but you can’t possibly deny that the two are kind of mutually exclusive, can you?

Ouchie, I don't think they are mutually exclusive.

My thoughts are the Suns should play their youngsters and let the draft take care of itself. The Suns are doing just fine losing on their own. I've never been against the Suns trading one or all of their centers (less Williams) for more assets or cap space. However, when the game starts I want to root for the Suns to win, not that I have any control over it.

The Suns are not good enough to tank.

 

[pokerface]

The few players that are NBA ready on the Suns are Chandler, Monroe, Daniels and Dudley. I could put Knight in there if he was healthy. None where drafted by the Suns. Besides Booker and Warren the draft has not helped. Josh Jackson is not helping like you thought. Wait maybe your happy with Len, Chriss, Bender and J.J.
I'm not anti tank but I'm upset with the Players the Suns have drafted.

Jeesh. The players we drafted are extremely young. I'm not disappointed with Bender or Jackson...they show potential. Warren and Booker rock.

The free agents you mentioned are ok but we aren't signing guys that are in their prime. They have short term futures.

 

[Chaplin]

So you want to win as many games as possible and get the highest pick possible. I understand the desire, but you can’t possibly deny that the two are kind of mutually exclusive, can you?

Absolutely wrong. Who wants us to win as many games as possible? I want us to be competitive. If we lose, so be it. The definition of tanking is to INTENTIONALLY lose games. I am against that, and ONLY that. I will not, now or ever, root for my team to lose. I just won't do it. I'm not sure why that makes me anti-draft.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Ouchie, I don't think they are mutually exclusive.

My thoughts are the Suns should play their youngsters and let the draft take care of itself. The Suns are doing just fine losing on their own. I've never been against the Suns trading one or all of their centers (less Williams) for more assets or cap space. However, when the game starts I want to root for the Suns to win, not that I have any control over it.

The Suns are not good enough to tank.

But you understand that the rules of the draft won’t allow you to win a lot of games and be rewarded with a high draft pick, right? I mean literally every game won, in some small incremental manner, decreases your percentage chance at a higher draft pick. Of course it seems dependent upon how those at the bottom are performing in relation to you, but the basic premise surely can any be disastrous ended. Right? So each game that you root them to win, if you’re rewarded with a win, places you some percentage of chance further away from being rewarded at years end with a higher draft pick.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Absolutely wrong. Who wants us to win as many games as possible? I want us to be competitive. If we lose, so be it. The definition of tanking is to INTENTIONALLY lose games. I am against that, and ONLY that. I will not, now or ever, root for my team to lose. I just won't do it. I'm not sure why that makes me anti-draft.

Again I think this is semantics. You are saying you are okay with losing. You can’t want to win and be okay with losing. If you’re okay with losing why win at all? THE wins only detract from the long term goal of bettering the team’s talent with higher draft picks.

I think the reality is (and I’m not saying you are saying this, Chap - this isn’t a more general comment) that many of you want the long term reward of a high draft pick (but can’t come to grips with the fact that it’s necessitated with a terrible team), but don’t know how that translates into short-term actions (accepting, and even being desirous of individual losses) because it’s counterintuitive for sports. THe irony is that it’s not counterintuitive to real life Strategies a like battle and business where you might be willing to sacrifice the battle or short-term opportunities to win the war or reap long-term dominance in your field of industry.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I ALSO think there’s an interesting misconception that many of you have about those of us that are what y’all call tankers . . . that we want the team to go out and INTENTIONALLY lose. I don’t think any of us has made that statement. I don’t think the players should be instructed to throw games. BUT what the front office didn’t last year, sit players, encourage the playing time of young guys, that increases the odds of losing, is fair game and a smart viable strategy. Yes we might appreciate, and a to some point even root for, the losses. But, ajd I could be wrong here, I don’t think any one of us has actually stated that the team should be directed to actually throw games.