Big Red Huddle: Dansby

devilfan02

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joeshmo said:
I think everyone needs to take note here. Hardy Brown is calling this kid out. And he doesnt sound like the type of guy who will do something like that unless it is validated IMO. Since when has he said a single negative thing about this team so far. Even if a guy isnt playing so well in practice he will always point out a positive to go along with it.

I had real serious concerns about this a month ago and even mentioned them. Now that Hardy is calling him out my concerns are not only validated in my mind he has raised my concerns even more to include possible money issues and even more character concerns then I originally thought in the first place, and all with good reason.

Agree 100%, Hardy always tries to find the positives so this is concerning. I started worrying about Dansby when reading before camp that the coaches were upset with him for a "horrible offseason." The way he was acting at the scrimmage cemented mine and everyone elses worries. Sure it was just a lousy walk through but he wanted nothing to do with anything
 

joeshmo

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devilfan02 said:
I said he plays hard and there are leadership qualities in that.

OK then I will change my stance to Leadership qualities/Leadership skills is what seperates great from good players.
 

az1965

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This has David Boston written all over it... Great talent wasted due to loose nuts.
 

RugbyMuffin

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CardinalChris said:
I even heard him on Siruis a couple of days ago and he seemed excited about participating and being part of Arizona's team. It could be a case of the player feeling he is injured worse than the coaches believe.

If that was the case I would be soooooo happy. I would drive down to Arizona and let the guy kick me right in the mommy, daddy box for ripping him apart.

But from what is getting thrown around the guys seems to be a space cadet.

If you remember he was labeled a head case when he dropped to the 2nd round of the draft.

This is such a frustrating situation. It could be mis-informed good, or a very very very bad situation.
 

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devilfan02 said:
Hopefully steroids and blow aren't invloved in this one too :eek:

Alleged steroid use! :D

As I commented on Totally_Red's poll (I'm not sure I like the sound of that):

When a player won't work (stationary bike or anything else that is within his physical ability) while the rest of his team does, he ceases to be a team mate. I'm backing Denny & Co. 100% on this one. It doesn't matter what's bothering Karlos, he has effectively taken himself off of the team. Here's hoping he decides to join the team again soon.
 

BACH

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Twist18 said:
I may be dreaming but I thought the Poston's were KD's agents. Sounds like a move they would endorse.
But, if this was a "Poston"-move, wouldn't they have used the media to talk their case and spin the situation their way?

There has been no report or indication in the media about why Dansby isn't participating in practices.

That is what makes this thing weird. Apperently, this isn't a money issue, since there's been nothing in the media about it.
 
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AZ Shocker

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One things for sure...Denny's the man!
You don't wanna get on board with this team...your gone.
Pete Kendall? :shrug:
 

Redsz

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I fully support Green's decision to demote Dansby and send him back to the valley. But I would love to know what is going on the guys head before casting any stones (if you will).
 

JeffGollin

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1. I sense that part of this story isn't being made public yet. Otherwise, it just doesn't square (i.e. Kid can play. Kid's thumb is hurt. Rumors of dissatisfaction with the Kid. Kid claims there's no problem. Coach claims there's no problem. Later on Coach expresses frustration with Kid's non-presence. Former DE promoted to starter ahead of Kid. Kid heads down the hill). Something is missing here.

2, Rumor fills an information vacuum. (It's very dangerous to speculate about all the possible more onerous reasons Karlos headed back to the Valley).

3. I'd rather take the Kool-Aid view - i.e. Pace played his way into a starting role. When Karlos is back, we'll have a dynamite WILL backer.

4. Perhaps DG's expressions of frustration is more a general pattern having to do with guys not being available to perform - within the past few days he's mutttered about Leinart, he's grumbled about King (i.e. "he's only had two weeks worth of snaps over the past 3 years") and now he's bitching a little about Dansby.

5. Suggest we keep our panties dry for now.
 

Pariah

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I'd like to remind everyone how EVERYTHING--good and bad--seems to get blown out of proportion in TC. We're all starving for football, and finally we have some football-related stuff to talk about but we latch on to it and talk it into the stratosphere.

Dansby will play for us this season. Dansby will most likely start for us somewhere (WILL or SAM). Dansby will likely be an excellent playmaker for us.

That said, if this problem is legit...maybe he's not with us next year? I hope we can get value for him if that's the case.
 

abomb

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What's not to say that he is having some big personal issue? Keep in mind, a player can fail multiple substance abuse tests before it becomes public. Maybe there is something deeper going on with Dansby. Either way, it is disappointing.
 

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Devilfan.....Update when possible please.
 

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RugbyMuffin said:
If you remember he was labeled a head case when he dropped to the 2nd round of the draft.

I don't know why you keep repeating this like it's true. The knock on Dansby was his consistency when he dropped into the 2nd round. I looked back at all the old draft sites, and there wasn't a "character" flag on any of them.
 

kerouac9

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JeffGollin said:

3. I'd rather take the Kool-Aid view - i.e. Pace played his way into a starting role. When Karlos is back, we'll have a dynamite WILL backer.

Keep in mind that in his rookie camp, and into the preseason, Calvin Pace was one of the supposed front-runners for defensive rookie of the year. He was drawing comparisons to Simeon Rice.

How many sacks did Calvin Pace have his second preseason?

Calvin Pace is a great player in August. The problem is that when the calendar flips over to September or October, the cat totally disappears.
 

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kerouac9 said:
I don't know why you keep repeating this like it's true. The knock on Dansby was his consistency when he dropped into the 2nd round. I looked back at all the old draft sites, and there wasn't a "character" flag on any of them.
Found this...

LB AUBURN – Rank Dansby among those who helped themselves the least at the combine. Karlos weighed in at 251, a good 15 pounds over his playing weight and declined to participate in any of the drills. Then there were the interviews, where Karlos spent much of the time blaming teammates and coaches for Auburn's dissapointing 2003 season. What would he be like if the Chargers happen to draft him??? Before that, Dansby was actually getting some decent pre-draft run as the latest of a line of athletic, sideline-to-sideline backers (Takeo Spikes among others) in the Tiger program – Dansby came to Auburn with designs on being a wide receiver, but was quickly moved to safety, and eventually outside backer. His athleticism was most on display in the 2001 Peach Bowl v. North Carolina where Dansby made an interception, then while falling out of bounds showed off his basketball talents by tipping the ball off to teammate Dontarrious Thomas. Dansby also made three TFL’s in that contest. The following year Dansby tipped a pass while making a pass rush, and was able to make the INT as well. In 2002 Dansby recorded 14 TFL’s along with nine QB hurries and three INT’s. Both Dansby and Thomas project to being first round picks this year, and the two fed off of each other for much of the 2003 season. Speed runs in the 4.5’s, and his receiver experience helps in defending the pass. Along with his leaping ability, Dansby has a huge wingspan. Although he should be able to play at either OLB position, some feel that Dansby is a much better fit in a 3-4 than a 4-3. His frame is also somewhat lanky, and can use some more bulk to better fend off blockers. Dansby also does well gambling and guessing right in college, but will need to tone that down at the next level. Before the combine Dansby was projected late first-round, but now he could end up as one of the bigger slides on draft day.
 

RugbyMuffin

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kerouac9 said:
I don't know why you keep repeating this like it's true. The knock on Dansby was his consistency when he dropped into the 2nd round. I looked back at all the old draft sites, and there wasn't a "character" flag on any of them.


http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=76214&page=9

Check Bach's post half way down the page.

Kiper said the same thing.

I wasn't at the combine that year so I had to take their word for it :D
 

joeshmo

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JeffGollin said:

5. Suggest we keep our panties dry for now.

But this is not something new.

Jurecki talked about this morning. Pretty much he stated -

1. This is a Denny Draft pick and a Denny player. For him to call him out like he has, there is something wrong and has been wrong for some time.

2. He play on Sundays has never been an issue.

3. What has been an issue since he has been here (this is not new to the coaches) is his ability to be with the team and practicing from Monday to Saturday during the season and the same for the whole offseason. He always has some sort of nagging injury, excuse, what ever to not practice. Nagging injuries that most other football players will play through the normal nagging injuries that all football players have and practice through are the same injuries that Dansby wont practice through.

4. They are also tired of his nonchalant attitude when ever they talk to him about it. His nonchalant attitude when it comes to practicing, especially in the offseason.

Jurecki and Bickley were taking Dansby to task and heavily praising Pace. Which was odd for those guys.
 

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devilfan02 said:
Hopefully steroids and blow aren't invloved in this one too :eek:

Dansby was one of the guys pre draft that several teams had steroid concerns about, whether or not he really uses them who knows.But when you arrive in college as a WR at 205 pounds and leave as a 250 pound(he was listed at 251 as a senior at the combine don't know if he was really that big never believed he was) LB, people get suspicious, especially when you have a history of injuries in college.

He certainly hasn't had the career to date that makes you think steroid user, doesn't seem to have a temper problem, has had some injuries but not the chronic injuries that seem to follow steroid users.

I have no idea what's wrong now, I just hope Green can nip it in the bud, I'm not a Green fan but based on what we know of the situation I think he's doing the right thing with Karlos. My guess would be given Karlos' knees, he might be trying to force a new deal on the Cards now while he's still healthy?
 
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kerouac9

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RugbyMuffin said:
I wasn't at the combine that year so I had to take their word for it :D

But does that really make him a "headcase"? Darnell Dockett had real character issues. That LB from Florida State in the 2006 draft had character issues. Ernie Sims had character issues. There's a problem with accountability here, but you're making the problem much worse than it was.

I don't know in what world you live in where "bad interview" = headcase.
 
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I reserve my right to comment on the "Dansby situation" while I have no freakin' clue what is really going on!!!

Except to say, it doesn't look good, not good at all!
 

NEZCardsfan

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CardLogic said:
I reserve my right to comment on the "Dansby situation" while I have no freakin' clue what is really going on!!!

Except to say, it doesn't look good, not good at all!

No kidding.

I'm going to get flamed again.....but maybe DG's BPA available isn't going to work out so great after all. Maybe character does matter, then.
 
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Hardy Brown

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Nez,

Anybody who says character doesn't matter never played with the likes of Terrel Ownes. Character matters and it always will. Taking the best-player-available does not preclude character, it's figured in as criterion in scouting reports.

I can tell you from a player's/coach's perspective it matters. Based on your post, it may be starting to matter to you, as it should to all fans.
 
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Hardy Brown

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Further insight into the "Dansby Debacle." Interesting read by Mr. Somers.

Kent Somers
The Arizona Republic
Aug. 9, 2006 12:00 AM

FLAGSTAFF

For evidence of the fickle nature of professional sports, look no further than the Cardinals' strong outside linebacker position.

Karlos Dansby, the starter the past two years, has taken up residence in coach Dennis Green's doghouse. While there, it would be nice if he would forward the mail of a former resident, Calvin Pace.



For those scoring at home, that's Dansby replacing Pace in the doghouse, and Pace replacing Dansby in the starting lineup.

Ironic, don't you think?

"You know, man, anything can happen out here," Pace said. "Never get too complacent because before you know it, you'll be in the doghouse quick with somebody."

Dansby earned admittance by not yet practicing in this training camp after undergoing surgery on a thumb this summer. But even before that, Green was not pleased with Dansby's commitment this off-season.

Meanwhile, Green has praised Pace at every turn. Coaches moved Pace to linebacker from defensive end this spring, and he's drawn rave reviews there. In fact, whenever Dansby does start practicing, he might be moving to the weak side, where he'll compete with the current starter,
Orlando Huff.

"I think we'll look at all our possibilities, including Karlos playing 'Will' (weak-side) backer," Green said. "We like Calvin at 'Sam' (strong side). We think he brings us a little more size. I think that might be the way we're going to go."

Green then cautioned, "Right now, we don't have a clue on when Karlos will be back."

Karlos' tumble


Dansby's fall from grace has been precipitous. Green often has referred to Dansby as part of the team's core of talented young players, and the team was interested in extending his contract some time this year. That hasn't been talked about for some time, however.

While Dansby has missed just two games in two years, he has been nicked with a handful of injuries and missed practice time.

Coaches think Dansby, like many young players, must learn to practice through some injuries and discomfort. That's why Green has been disappointed in Dansby not practicing in camp.

But Dansby's absence has been Pace's opportunity. He's been running with the first team all camp, and coaches are excited about his progress.

Pace has traveled a rough road since his selection in the first round of the 2003 draft. The team passed on a chance to take
Arizona State's Terrell Suggs in that draft, choosing to trade down. The Cardinals ended up with receiver Bryant Johnson and Pace, who some draft experts thought was a reach.

When Green took the Cardinals job in 2004, one of his first moves was to sign free agent Bertrand Berry to replace Pace at right defensive end. And last year, Pace's season ended after five games when he suffered a severe laceration while roughhousing with a friend during the off week.

When coaches approached him this spring about moving to linebacker, he wondered whether they were shoving him out the door.

"I'll tell people, I don't want anything from this organization except an opportunity," Pace said. "You have to stay positive. I could have been like, 'No, I don't want to play here, release me. Or put me back at end.' But it's a new challenge and it's fun, so I'm trying to make the most of it."

By making the move, Pace has not only solidified his place on the roster, but it appears he'll be an integral part of the defense. In some nickel packages, he'll return to his roots and rush the passer as a defensive end.

His versatility gives defensive coordinator Clancy Pendergast more options when devising game plans.

Moving Pace to linebacker wasn't a snap decision. Frank Bush, the assistant head coach who works with the linebackers, said "it's always been in the back of my mind" that Pace could be a linebacker.

"You hate to see a guy with talent go to waste," Bush said. "I think with the way coach Green approached it and the way Clancy and myself were able to tell him, 'This is what it is. Here's the way we see you,' I think he finally bought into it and said these guys are legitimately trying to give me a chance to be on the football field."

Which almost any player will tell you, is preferable to the doghouse.
 

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