Best Duo Under 25?

Discussion in 'Phoenix Suns' started by devilalum, Jul 21, 2019.

  1. devilalum

    devilalum Heavily Redacted

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    I like our duo best and they are definitely the most similar to Kobe/Shaq.

    Every time I see these comparisons I am shocked by the fact that Booker is still so young. I guess that's what happens when a player plays for 4 REALLY long seasons.
     
  2. cheesebeef

    cheesebeef Registered User Contributor

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    two of those duos went to Game 7 of the Conference Semi-Finals, one of the duos hasn't played together yet and ours just led us to the worst season in franchise history.

    Give me Embiid and Simmons over all of them every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2019
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  3. devilalum

    devilalum Heavily Redacted

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    You're probably right but they didn't play with the cast of misfits the Suns had last year.

    And the coach

    and owner..........
     
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  4. BC867

    BC867 Long time Phoenician! Contributor

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    That could explain why our guys are not at the top of the list.
    Being part of success is part of the equation.

    I'm rooting for Ayton to succeed, but it remains to be seen
    if he could be half of a group to be better than Embiid/Simmons.
     
  5. JCSunsfan

    JCSunsfan Registered User

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    Simmons is a flawed player. He is not the player that Booker is. Ayton was a rookie. We will see. Ayton has flashed plenty of potential and does not have Embiid’s injury issues. The Sixers were in the EC and had a better cast around. Good grief—they had Jimmie Butler on that team.
     
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  6. Ronin

    Ronin Registered

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    None of those duo’s made it to the conference finals.
    Semifinals, yes. Conference finals, no.
     
  7. GatorAZ

    GatorAZ Formerly known as GatorHater

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    Jokic and Murray by far.
     
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  8. cwamjn

    cwamjn Registered

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    I'd go with the Nuggets duo, today. Ask me again in a few years and I'm sure it will change. Can Ayton toughen up? Can Simmons shoot? Can Porzingis stay healthy? For what it's worth I probably like the Kings best with Fox and Bagley.
     
  9. cheesebeef

    cheesebeef Registered User Contributor

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    Wait... Booker's not flawed? Booker has literally made NO IMPACT on the team winning games and he's a negative on D. That's HALF of the game. He's a great scorer at this point. That's about it. Simmons is a mismatch nightmare, who controls entire games without even scoring at this point... still scores 17 ppg, plays very good D and can guard anyone 2-5. The idea that Booker is somehow better than Simmons yet hasn't been able to lift the Suns out of complete joke-dom is a joke unto itself. Can Booker get better as a distributor and hopefully on D. Yes. But guess what, Simmons can also get better and even with his flaws, he's STILL making an impact while being only a couple months older than Booker.

    That's nice... but Ayton has NEVER shown Embiid's actual production. You can talk "potential" all you want, but until he even starts to sniff Embiid's actual play, dominance on both ends of the court, he's not in the same league, zip code or universe.

    Good grief... they made the playoffs and second round BEFORE they had Butler the previous year too. In fact, the moment Embiid and Simmons took the court for the first time, at the ages of 20 and 23, they led the team to the playoffs and 50 wins. I don't care if that's in the East or not, it shows MAJOR progression from a team that was atrocious forever, as opposed to us, who's record somehow got worse once Booker got Ayton on the court with him.

    The reality is that once the Sixers duo stepped on the court, they immediately turned that team around, going from 28 wins to 52 and getting to the second round of the playoffs. Both of them effect the game at both ends of the floor. Again, they don't show "the potential" to do this... they ARE doing it. And they're still only going into their 5th and 3rd seasons in the league and can get better.

    Give me that production AND youth over our "potential" every day of the week. Arguing otherwise really strains credulity.
     
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  10. cheesebeef

    cheesebeef Registered User Contributor

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    that's what I meant.
     
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  11. Raze

    Raze Suns fan since '89

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    Oh, this is going to make me vomit...

    Kobe was one of the greatest two way players of all time. 15 times he made an All NBA team. 12 times he made an All D team.
    Shaq was arguably the most dominant force in the paint of all time and made an All NBA team 14 times and D 3 times.

    They are without question the most formidable SG/C combo of all time.

    Kobe/Shaq 2.0? Ugh. Part of me wants to fight off the discussion because it's ridiculous to compare any of those options to Kobe or Shaq. But it's July so why not? Here's how I'd rank them.

    Kobe:

    1. The closest to Kobe is Jamal. Jamal shows some life on D and is a threat to score anywhere at any time. Sneaky athletic as well.
    2. Devin only resembles Kobe on O, but with a small fraction of his athleticism. And he is horrific on D.
    3. Luka has the killer instinct of Kobe but he also isn't in the same stratosphere of athleticism and D.
    4. Ben Simmons in his entire career won't hit as many game winners as Kobe did in his worst season. And he'll hit about as many three's in his career as well. On D he's fine, but on the perimeter on O he's the WORST in the NBA.

    Shaq:

    1. I give the edge to Embiid for the Cs. He dominates in the paint on both ends. Already has 2 ALL D team awards.
    2. Jokic plays nothing like Shaq, but dominates in his own way. In the MVP conversation for a reason. But not a great defender.
    3. Ayton could sleep his way to a double double. Based on potential he could equal Embiid.
    4. The unicorn was hurt last year but at least showed dominance when he last played. I still don't think we'll see the same out of him again.

    Based on my completely unflawed and lock tight rankings above that gives Jamal/Jokic the win. (subject to change)
     
  12. CardsSunsDbacks

    CardsSunsDbacks ASFN Contributor Contributor

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    I might agree if Murray wasn't overrated like I believe him to be. Ultimately I think the 3 non Suns duos shown are all pretty even. I think the Suns have the potential to be the best, but Ayton is going to have to make a big jump for them to get there.
     
  13. elindholm

    elindholm edited for content

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    It would be Embiid/Simmons in the #1 spot if not for Embiid's constant injuries. Jokic is never going to have the "Wow" factor because of his style, but he projects to a better career.

    Porzingis is damaged goods and was already leveling off before he got hurt. At this point Ayton is the better gamble.
     
  14. BC867

    BC867 Long time Phoenician! Contributor

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    What about the opinions posted that Ayton might have a more meaningful career
    as a Power Forward alongside a role playing Center?

    Despite his easy double-doubles, we've yet to see him as a power in the paint,
    either in college or the pro's.

    Of course, with that limited experience behind him, who knows what he could
    develop into.
     
  15. Phrazbit

    Phrazbit Registered

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    We've already seen him as a power in the paint, he just had one of the best "in the paint" seasons by a rookie in ages, and that was without anyone knowing how to get him the ball in decent spots. Arizona was dumb as hell to play him at PF, they only did so out of loyalty to a Senior center who was a statue and couldn't function away from the hoop. Ayton has already shown high level post play on offense and projects to be an elite rebounder. Putting him as a PF who is going to spend half his time chasing perimeter players around is a huge waste or his strenghts.
     
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