Ayton's Development at the Quarter Mark of 2018-2019 Season

[SirStefan32]

I would still take Ayton over Amare. Ayton is smarter right now than Amare ever was. he is a better rebounder now than Amare ever was. He has better low-post moves than Amare ever had. His jumper right now is about as good as Amare's ever was. Amare had some serious nastiness, and he was better at facing up and driving to the hoop. Their defense is pretty similar, but I am talking about Ayton right now and Amare in his prime. I'll take Ayton over Amare every time.

Nasty dunks are a distraction. Awesome to watch, but two points is two points.

 

[Proximo]

I would still take Ayton over Amare. Ayton is smarter right now than Amare ever was. he is a better rebounder now than Amare ever was. He has better low-post moves than Amare ever had. His jumper right now is about as good as Amare's ever was. Amare had some serious nastiness, and he was better at facing up and driving to the hoop. Their defense is pretty similar, but I am talking about Ayton right now and Amare in his prime. I'll take Ayton over Amare every time.

Nasty dunks are a distraction. Awesome to watch, but two points is two points.

I would take Ayton over Amare also. Mainly because he is a 7 footer and I believe he will get more aggressive - but that may be wishful thinking.

If Ayton could just master the pick and roll like Amare did, 30 point nights would be the norm.

He really has to learn how to go from 15 feet to the basket on his own also, Not being able to do that is killing him.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Aytons game will not take its toll on his body like Amares did on his body. Ayton dominates without pushing his body to the limit.

 

[SactownSunsFan]

If Ayton could just master the pick and roll like Amare did, 30 point nights would be the norm.

It sure helps when you have one of the greatest distributing PG's in league history setting you up on those pick n' rolls. What I wouldn't give to have a prime Nash on this team right now.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I would still take Ayton over Amare. Ayton is smarter right now than Amare ever was. he is a better rebounder now than Amare ever was. He has better low-post moves than Amare ever had. His jumper right now is about as good as Amare's ever was. Amare had some serious nastiness, and he was better at facing up and driving to the hoop. Their defense is pretty similar, but I am talking about Ayton right now and Amare in his prime. I'll take Ayton over Amare every time.

Nasty dunks are a distraction. Awesome to watch, but two points is two points.

Agreed. Amare was flashier but Ayton makes it seem so easy when he gets the ball in the right place. We don't get the ball there often enough but he's still putting up incredible numbers.

 

[BC867]

Sure but that is rare and happens to all players, so I’m not sure what your point is . . . ?

In response to gimpy, you posted, "I have yet to read a single poster that has said “Ayton is fouling too much.” Not calling you out, I just haven’t seen a single example of what you’re claiming."

Gimpy had said, "Ayton picks up two fouls in the first quarter and then has to sit." And that happened often. A rookie first round pick is hardly comparable to "all players". There is a lot of attention focused on him.

At the time, some posters tried to make blocks the most important stat to judge Ayton by. Some of us attributed his lack of blocks to being gun shy due to foul calls.

I remember posting that a rookie trying for two or three blocks per game, and the ensuing foul calls, isn't worth his 20-10 potential by being benched for contact on a few block attempts.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

In response to gimpy, you posted, "I have yet to read a single poster that has said “Ayton is fouling too much.” Not calling you out, I just haven’t seen a single example of what you’re claiming."

Gimpy had said, "Ayton picks up two fouls in the first quarter and then has to sit." And that happened often. A rookie first round pick is hardly comparable to "all players". There is a lot of attention focused on him.

At the time, some posters tried to make blocks the most important stat to judge Ayton by. Some of us attributed his lack of blocks to being gun shy due to foul calls.

I remember posting that a rookie trying for two or three blocks per game, and the ensuing foul calls, isn't worth his 20-10 potential by being benched for contact on a few block attempts.

And I still say you’re wrong. It’s establishing the wrong message with Ayton, to be passive or afraid defensively. And it’s establishing the wrong reputation with the refs, that he soft, a bad defender and not a rim protector. Unfortunately those things can stick.

 

[slinslin]

I think a better question than towns would be this:

Would you rather have Ayton now or Amare about this same time in his rookie year?

For me..... It's still Amare. I love what I am seeing from DA...... But I was flipping amazed at what I saw our future being when Amare hit the end of December. FYI..... He scored 38 on KG in Minny on 12/30/2002.

I literally couldn't believe what I was witnessing in 2002.

.........

Amare averaged like 13/8 as a rookie. Amare was not even close to as good as Ayton as a rookie.

 

[taz02]

I'd take Ayton too but Amare was more fun to watch.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'd take Ayton too but Amare was more fun to watch.

The early years were indeed fun. Too bad Amare had knee problems.

I still like Ayton long term.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I'd take Ayton too but Amare was more fun to watch.

That he was.

 

[slinslin]

Marbury and Nash were a lot better at directing Amare than any of the playmakers on our time right now to be fair.

 

[Chaplin]

Marbury and Nash were a lot better at directing Amare than any of the playmakers on our time right now to be fair.

There's a good question to ask - what would Ayton be like with Nash as his point guard? OMG

 

[AzStevenCal]

There's a good question to ask - what would Ayton be like with Nash as his point guard? OMG

Not to mention something like Booker, Warren and Bridges to spread the court for them.

 

[JCSunsfan]

There's a good question to ask - what would Ayton be like with Nash as his point guard? OMG

Here is another question. What point guard in this league right now is the closest thing to Steve Nash?

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Here is another question. What point guard in this league right now is the closest thing to Steve Nash?

Oddly for me it's a guy that shoots a lot more in Curry. Curry has a lot of Nash to his game, but just shoots a lot more like what Nash probably should have done. As for someone that actually plays anything like him, I don't know of anyone.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Oddly for me it's a guy that shoots a lot more in Curry. Curry has a lot of Nash to his game, but just shoots a lot more like what Nash probably should have done. As for someone that actually plays anything like him, I don't know of anyone.

He's the only one I can think of today with the skills to play Nash ball.

 

[GatorAZ]

Here is another question. What point guard in this league right now is the closest thing to Steve Nash?

CP3

 

[JCSunsfan]

To play Nash ball you have to be highly efficient, and a fantastic floor general and passer. I don’t really see a good example except Curry.

 

[BC867]

And I still say you’re wrong. It’s establishing the wrong message with Ayton, to be passive or afraid defensively. And it’s establishing the wrong reputation with the refs, that he soft, a bad defender and not a rim protector. Unfortunately those things can stick.

I agree with you. That is the direction for Ayton to go in. But I do believe that it was better for him to start cautiously, not start out in the refs' headlights. Then take more chances as his stats became solid, which they have. I think it was the right move because this is his first experience playing Center in post-high school basketball. He did not come here with that inherent experience.

Lately, we can see Ayton being more assertive on defense and blocking as well as rebounds. I believe it was proper to have him start out more in control, just as we hope Jackson will be (although their traits and roles are certainly not comparable).

If we disagree on that, so be it. But I believe that Ayton has reached the second plateau of his development a quarter into the season. And that is helped by him having a more talented team around him at this time than from the start of the season. But a distributor who can feed him properly on offense would help.

In our eyes, Ayton is the second or third most talented player on the team and has been since the start of the season. In the eyes of the refs, he is just a rookie who has to pay his dues. And, as the #1 pick, probably more than most.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

In the eyes of the refs, he is just a rookie who has to pay his dues. And, as the #1 pick, probably more than most.

See I think this is indicative of the suns fan persecution complex. I’ve seen no signs of Ayton getting poor treatment from the refs. Is he getting superstar calls? No. But I also don’t think he’s been aggressive consistently enough to draw the calls. I can’t recall any #1 pick ever having to go above and beyond with the refs either. In fact it’s usually the opposite because refs know they are the next gen of superstars.

 

[JCSunsfan]

See I think this is indicative of the suns fan persecution complex. I’ve seen no signs of Ayton getting poor treatment from the refs. Is he getting superstar calls? No. But I also don’t think he’s been aggressive consistently enough to draw the calls. I can’t recall any #1 pick ever having to go above and beyond with the refs either. In fact it’s usually the opposite because refs know they are the next gen of superstars.

I have, especially early in the year and especially in that game against Embiid. I chalk it up to tentativeness. If you play like you meant it, the refs don't seem to call it. If you act almost apologetic, they call it every time.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I have, especially early in the year and especially in that game against Embiid. I chalk it up to tentativeness. If you play like you meant it, the refs don't seem to call it. If you act almost apologetic, they call it every time.

Yeah again I think that’s a product of suns persecution complex. I don’t think the refs are out to get Ayton. Nor have I heard any of the players or the staff or front office even hint at that.

 

[BC867]

Yeah again I think that’s a product of suns persecution complex. I don’t think the refs are out to get Ayton. Nor have I heard any of the players or the staff or front office even hint at that.

Don't forget that this discussion was about Ayton backing off from trying for blocks early on, because contact is more difficult to avoid on attempts to block or steal.

In response to those posters who seemed to be making blocks the primary evaluator of the rookie. Hardly, when he is averaging double digits in scoring and rebounding.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Don't forget that this discussion was about Ayton backing off from trying for blocks early on, because contact is more difficult to avoid on attempts to block or steal.

In response to those posters who seemed to be making blocks the primary evaluator of the rookie. Hardly, when he is averaging double digits in scoring and rebounding.

See BC I think these comments are what gets you in trouble and results in arguments. Not a single poster has made 0blocks the primary evaluator of the rookie.” It’s this kind of hyperbole that stirs up the board, and not in a good way because youre essentially negating any other comment anyone has made if they offered some criticism of ayton’s rim protection. And frankly I don’t think that’s fair to anyone and I think it’s a disingenuous manner of argumentation.