Arizona Cardinals GM Steve Keim cited for DUI on July 4

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Hollywood

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A DUI is not simply a "mistake." It is a conscious decision to go out, drink, and then get behind the wheel.
I think you are confusing accident with mistake. Just because it wasn't an accident doesn't mean it wasn't a mistake. I have made lots of mistakes on purpose. Then I learn and move on...hopefully I don't make the same mistake again. Sometimes I do. But it is still a mistake.

He made a mistake. He will have to deal with the consequences of his mistake and move on. Weather it is being fired or jail time or a slap on the wrist. I personally don't like to see someones life and career destroyed for a mistake that, in the end, didn't hurt anyone but himself if they are willing to learn from it.

But again, we still don't have any information on what really happened. It is all just assumption on our part. All we know is that he was cited for DUI which doesn't even mean he any alcohol in his system. Not that it matters much but for all we know he took some pain medication and went to the store to buy a bible for his wife...or inhaled some paint fumes (probably not but the truth is we don't know for sure)
 

bankybruce

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But by and large the limit is set with some evidence-based design. It’s not a random threshold. It’s when the impairment is typically enough to create a dangerous level. Body weight doesn’t change anything other than the ability to have more drinks until reaching the threshold. And “tolerance” is waaaay to subjective a measure to rely upon from a legal perspective. We live in a society. As such we create laws for the betterment of all people. You live in the society you agree to abide by the laws. You don’t and you pay the consequences.

And Keim isn’t below 21 so the zero tolerance policy has no relevance to this conversation.

End of the day, particularly with the scrutiny of football, Keim should really know better. This is inexcusable.


Fiest, I want to say I have zero tolerance for a DUI and agree its inexcusable.

With that being said, here in Oregon the DUI laws allow an officer to give one if you are well under the limit, but show signs of impairment. I know someone who blew a .02, but showed signs of impairment and was given one. They said his reaction time was slower than what is considered normal. He went to court and fought it and lost. I am not sure is Arizona has a similar law, but here in Oregon the measure of .08 really means nothing unless you blow a big fat zero, which is the only way SK should have been driving.
 
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Chainthroer

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There has not yet been a clear disclosure of the facts in the case. No indication of BA reading. Until we find out what really happened, we're all just blowing in the wind. Let's get the facts from the police report!
 

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So DUIs and the military don't mix. That's another job where you are gonzo.

- As an officer with 22 years I'd be done, almost immediately, due to even the accusation of a DUI. All arrests get reported (arrests not convictions) and the reports get forwarded up the chain. Even if you are innocent the reputation sticks to you and you can probably kiss good bye certain assignments and well-deserved/earned opportunities (see "alcohol incidents" below).
- I have lived on at least 2 installations where they stopped serving booze at the O-clubs AND one of them had a policy where there is a zero tolerance for driving after drinking. No blood alcohol limit - if there is alcohol in your blood (any at all) you lose on base privileges (period). And the cool thing about being in uniform is you aren't going to be able to successfully fight to overturn that decision.
- And an "alcohol incident" does not have to be in a car. A fight, a public disturbance, public intoxication, etc. all get "reported" as an "alcohol incident". In very rare circumstances you could be promoted with an alcohol incident, but it is very, very rare. I have sit on promotion boards and when you are looking for reasons to "down-select" the first ones that go into the trash pile are failed physical readiness tests and alcohol incidents. Totally not fair but totally the way the system works.
 

AZCB34

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Maybe Keim should place himself on administrative leave effective immediately and ending once the NFL mandated suspension ends after week 4. This accomplishes a couple things:

1. It sets the proper expectation for every person in the organization for the ramifications of making such a poor decision. It allows Steve to be part of future decisions when a player gets into this same situation.

2. It forces Steve to reconcile what he did and forces him to understand what a horrible decision he made. His time away from football will be a reminder of his error and hopefully will remind him of what he may be giving up if he keeps making stupid choices

And spare me with the we don't know the whole story nonsense. He was cited for DUI. Level of intoxication is irrelevant no matter how badly some of you want it to be.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Honestly, tell me where I have free volition to leave. The vast majority of open land in the US is privately or BLM owned - and were I to find a suitable spot, I'd need keen survival skills, and an income of some kind. Any idea that in the US that we have freedom from the government is pure illusion. Don't get me wrong, I mostly agree with our laws and could certainly have been born into a worse place. But to pretend I could pack up and leave - even to another country - is laughable.

Our society's drinking laws around kids that are old enough to die in war but not old enough to have a beer are laughable too. Maybe we wouldn't have a bunch of binge drinking unsupervised teens if we did something about teaching responsibility instead of abstinence.

Again though, sorry for getting us off track.


That's fine and dandy, but in that case, call it what it is - you'd prefer that we institute laws or a system where bars/individuals cannot serve alcohol to anyone without a verified ride home. I'm perfectly accepting of that stance, but if that's your stance, own it. This doesn't come down to personal responsibility at this point - any bar is overserving past handing a person one drink to ensure they stay under the legal limit.

I don't know you well enough to know if you drink or not, so no judgement here, but it sounds more like you're advocating for a zero tolerance policy.

Edit: Eh, just wanna be clear again - I'm not advocating for more leniency in how much we can drink or anything, just that I don't want to demonize people who make smaller mistakes. In all honesty, I would have no problem with installing every single vehicle with an interlock device to get it started.
But you CAN leave the country. You DO possess that volition. You can find a country whose laws, or the enforcement thereof are so lenient so as to meet your desire. Or to take yourself so far off the grid that you really have no need for compliance because you’re not a member of society. And why is it laughable that you could pack up and leave? People do it all the time. Many with little to no means find ways to travel the globe or move to other nations. You don’t because either (a) you’re too lazy to do so . . . in other words you enjoy the conveniences of living in a society, in which case you have to accept the consensus agreed upon rules or maybe (b) you have loved ones that won’t leave, in which case again you desire to be a part of a society (those loved ones) and they decided to be a part of the larger society, and thus in order for you to get what you desire (being close to yiur loved ones) you have to agree to live within the societal rules. But no ones making you. That’s YOUR decision. I’m sure there are nations, or wildnerness where either there aren’t drinking laws, or no enforcement mechanism. You just choose not to go there.

Finally, I agree wholeheartedly with the devices installed in cars. I see no reason not to do so. People want to cry “your taking my freedom!” But the truth is, if you blow something dangerous the device is only limiting yiur freedom to danger others and break a law. So is it really limiting yiur freedom or is it just another mechanism for implementing societal agreed upon rules (like traffic lights)?
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I'm a heavy drinker - simple as that. I honestly don't get how "don't drink" is an option in a lot of social situations that literally revolve around drinking. It's a character flaw. But when I have an important after-work client meeting, I need to drink or be the uncomfortable guy not interacting. When everyone is going to sit at the bar for three hours to watch the game, it's either I drink or don't go, because you can't just take up a barstool drinking diet soda when you're costing the bartender money.

Two caveats - I live in Las Vegas, where things are always dialed up to 11, and I also get "reliable" transportation, although that may sometimes be in the form of someone that had 2-3 drinks instead of someone stone cold sober.
we’ve had a good conversation up until now. But the idea that you “have to” drink is a total cop out. I used to be a pretty good social drinker. I still have an occasional drink in social situations. But I also regularly go out with friends to bars, sports bars for games, dinners and/or drinks with coworkers and have zero alcohol. It’s not necessary. It’s a choice. And I’m not “costing the bartender money” because If I didn’t go to that bar neither would my 2-15 friends. Worst argument you’ve made.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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. I consider it that point isn't time where you're not exhibiting any real signs of intoxication (slurred speech, readily apparent lack of motor function, etc.) but are not under the legal limit.
.


I’m sorry I want to clarify something before I respond - are you saying you should be allowed to drink and drive right up to the point before the bolded language above becomes evident?
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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A sincere congratulations on yours and your family's recovery, but AA isn't for everyone. I know I've tried it, and it didn't take, unfortunately.
Very true. I had an ex for whom AA didn’t work. She just destroyed her life. It was incredibly horrific to witness.

Unfortunately the places that do seem to work (I believe there’s a place called promises in Malibu that has an incredible track record of long-term permanent success) are incredibly expensive and essentially out of reach for most.
 

Southpaw

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I want to know how he just got cited for DUI and not booked? WTF
Maybe used the "do you know who I am" free pass. I was so looking forward to his booking mug shot. Those pics speak volumes.
 

ARZCardinals

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There are no civil penalties...this is a class 1 criminal misdemeanor. Unless he hit someone or something.

Oh, and NO ONE in America gets fired after they're forced to go into their bosses office and tell him they need to miss 3 days of work because he caught a dewey? Some of you fanboys are delusional.

Here's what Kime will get to experience:
1. Night in Chandler jail with the other drunks
2. Car is impounded for 30 days
3. License suspended for 90 days
4. Spend a **** ton of money on an attorney
5. Get to have an interlock device installed on every car he owns...including any family members for at least a half year
6. Couple of days in the 4th Avenue jail
7. probable home detention
8. Mandatory Alcohol classes
9. Probation for at least a half decade
10. Have to stand in open court with a ton of reporters around and listen to him allocute in front of the judge.

But he can rise above it. He can consult his other pro athlete friends who got busted: Barkley, Mark Grace, Khabibulin, McKnob and others.
By far the most intelligent post on this mess of a thread
 

TJ

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It would show that it truly is a serious issue and not just something to gloss over and move on from. The team used the words "unacceptable" and "inexcusable" in their statement, but then will accept and excuse the actions. Kind of nullifies their entire statement right there. "This is a very serious matter which we hope to sweep right under a rug. Move along." SMH.

Who’s saying it’s going to be “swept under the rug?” You’re intimating that the only solution is for Keim to lose his job. He’s going to be punished by the league and by the court. Keim will also have to face the humiliation stemming from this incident, and based on some of the reactions from people here, that’s going to be harsh. In short, It’s not going away.

In fact, you’d actually be doing Keim a favor by firing him. He keeps the money from his brand new contract and can either get another job, or take a break from working. Where’s the justice in that?
 

gimpy

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Well, that's kinda the point of being "under the influence". People begin to lose their ability to think and act normally and have good judgement, then do the things that you normally would not do, i.e., drink and drive, lose that one extra second of response time that might mean the difference between a crash or not?
 

oaken1

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Or don’t drink.

I always tell people that if you don’t have safe and reliable transportation planned for afterwards then don’t drink.

Simple.

thats my method. I have the server bring me a coke, in a tall glass...with a cherry...everyone thinks I am drinking anyway
 

daves

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Maybe Keim should place himself on administrative leave effective immediately and ending once the NFL mandated suspension ends after week 4.
In not familiar with the NFL's policy for disciplining front office employees for drug & alcohol incidents, or whether they even have a defined policy.(after all, there's no CBA for team employees and owners). But if you're implying that Keim should face the same discipline as players... doesn't a first offense result in being admitted to the substance abuse program increased testing, and NO suspension? I thought the 4-game suspension was for 2nd offenses of players who were already in the program.

Regardless, I don't believe players automatically get suspended immediately - usually the league doesn't hand down discipline until the legal process is complete. Though I do seem to recall exceptions in egregious cases.

And spare me with the we don't know the whole story nonsense. He was cited for DUI. Level of intoxication is irrelevant no matter how badly some of you want it to be.
Cited is a long way from convicted. It's usually a good idea to know the whole story before coming to conclusions regarding courses of action.

...dbs
 

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Who’s saying it’s going to be “swept under the rug?” You’re intimating that the only solution is for Keim to lose his job. He’s going to be punished by the league and by the court. Keim will also have to face the humiliation stemming from this incident, and based on some of the reactions from people here, that’s going to be harsh. In short, It’s not going away.

In fact, you’d actually be doing Keim a favor by firing him. He keeps the money from his brand new contract and can either get another job, or take a break from working. Where’s the justice in that?

Really... have you read his contract or any personal services agreement?
 

Gandhi

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I'm a heavy drinker - simple as that. I honestly don't get how "don't drink" is an option in a lot of social situations that literally revolve around drinking. It's a character flaw.

I most certainly respect your opinion, as well as your honesty. I reacted to the statement above, though.

I am from Denmark in Europe. I don’t know the newest statistics but in the near past Denmark was among the top of countries in the World with most drinking in society. In other words, most social situations revolve around drinking. About five or six years ago I made the choice not to drink alcohol anymore. It wasn’t something religious or anything that led to the decision. I just didn’t want to do it anymore. Now, I can’t say that it has not excluded me from some groups or social gatherings simple because I obviously don’t know, but I can say that I have never been told anything negative about it to my face, and I have never been in situations where I felt pressured to drink alcohol.

I don’t think you are right. I think you can be in most social environments without drinking alcohol. I also think it is very sad if kids got the impression that they had to drink to sort of, for a lack of better words, be accepted in many social environments.

---------------------

When it comes to Steve Keim, I must say that I was stunned to read the news. My first reaction was that he would get fired, because Michael Bidwill has shown to have a very short leash in these situations. After thinking some more about it, I don’t think that anymore, but I do think he should and will be disciplined in some ways. In my opinion, there are two problems here. One is the drunk driving in itself. The other is his action in relations to his job. Multiple posters are right that we can’t and shouldn’t try to judge anything about the first matter, because we just don’t know the facts. The second part I think we can judge on, because I don’t think it makes any difference how drunk he was or how you feel about the action, as long as you think he should not have done it, which we can probably all agree on.

I will say, however, about the drunk driving part in itself that I feel very strongly about it. One of my best friends lost a girlfriend to a drunk driver, and to see him go through the sorrow made a very strong impression. I doubt people would be forgiving if Keim had actually killed someone. Yes, I know it might be taking my argument a bit too far, and since I am not American and don’t live in America I can’t relate fully to some of the elements to the situation. For example, some in this thread has stated that the police don’t always follow the laws when handing out DUI, and I can’t comment on that because I simply have no idea. That said, any driver can kill someone in an accident. If there is also too much alcohol in said drivers blood, whatever the limit might be, then that accident becomes even worse, at least to me. To me, driving drunk is inexcusable.

About the situation as it relates to Keim’s job, my personal opinion, without considering what I think will actually happen, is that he knew the law, and if he did indeed break it, then I think it says something about him in a very bad way. Maybe even in a way where Michael Bidwill, in my opinion, should consider Keim’s future with the team. No, I am not saying Keim should get fired. I am saying that his actions should at the very least make his employer think about it. He should think about it because Keim is the general manager of an NFL organization. He is a role model and sets examples for a lot of young people, both on the roster, in the community and places all around the country and really in the World. If he was in fact driving after having too much to drink, and if he keeps his job, then both Keim and Bidwill will have shown a lot of people, including youngsters, that driving drunk won’t cause more problems for you then maybe a night in jail, a fine, a short break from work and a public apology. For right or wrong, that is the signal it sends out. That is not what you want your organization to be associated with.

I don’t really understand the posters in this thread who says that this shows that anyone can make mistakes, and that it should almost benefit the organization because it proves that anyone is human. First of all, Keim is not anyone. He is held to much higher standards, in multiple ways, than most other people, and he is being paid as such. Second, what if he had killed someone? Is that “being humanly”? Third, what?! Him being late to a meeting would send that message. Him being caught smoking in the lounges at the stadium at game day would send that message. Driving drunk does not send that message at all! Among other things it sends the message that you should just drive your own car home after you had something to drink but are not sure if you have had too much, because nothing bad will happen since you think you can easily control your driving and most likely nobody will find out anyway.

I want to be perfectly clear that I am not judging Keim on the DUI since I simply don’t know the specifics in this case. I am, however, judging Keim in his position as general manager. To me, his actions were inexcusable if he did in fact drive after having too much to drink. I am not saying I won’t still be happy to have him as the general manager of my favorite team, but I would not be able to forget about this. It would always linger in the back of my head and put a shadow over whatever I think of him. Always.

Also, I should add that I don’t put much stock into those press releases. I think both Keim and Michael Bidwill knows all to well what I have wrote about, and definitely many other things, that almost forces them to say what they did in those statements. Even if Keim only had half a beer more than he was supposed to, then both of them still absolutely has to say things like “the seriousness of the situation”, “incredibly poor judgement” and “I will take the steps to ensure that I never put myself or the Cardinals in this type of situation again”. They have to show to everyone that what Keim did was extremely wrong, no matter if they think it actually was or to what extent he broke the law, so I wouldn’t read too much into it.
 
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TJ

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Really... have you read his contract or any personal services agreement?

No, but I highly doubt the Cards would get a clean break from the contract. At worst, there'd be a buyout of some sort.
 

AZCB34

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No, but I highly doubt the Cards would get a clean break from the contract. At worst, there'd be a buyout of some sort.

There is probably some standard contact language when he comes to behavior that is a negative reflection on the organization.
 

ARZCardinals

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There is probably some standard contact language when he comes to behavior that is a negative reflection on the organization.
Bet the house on it's in his contract
He's gonna pay big time personally, financially, family, work wise and socially ...I think he's going to suffer enough.
There's no need to beat him down...right now he's his own worse enemy.
We've ALL made mistakes, but we didn't have our names plastered all over every news and sports internet sites. It was all over google, yahoo, espn, NFL and more....
I feel bad for the guy....but he's a big boy and he will recover...I hope
I have seen guys change big time after a DUI and not for the better....they went to beat down personally....and one never came out of it. He quit being himself because of the one mistake and while drinking and driving is bad...it doesn't mean you gotta stop being yourself or stop drinking...it means if you're gonna drink KNOW the second you order it or grab one KNOW you aren't going to ever ever drive.
 
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