Another look at what we're doing in FA

[Lex]

I'm starting to look at our efforts in free agency differently. I'm NOT surprised that players would take less than we offer to play somewhere else. This is the status quo here. It is in stark contrast to all of our other pro franchises, where players have jumped at the chance to come here for obvious reasons. We have GOT to be the capitol of retirement for pro ball players. So, if they all love it here, why won't they play for our football team?

Perception.

Perception may be incorrect, but it doesn't matter. The perception still exists, and becomes reality. The only way I can see for us to change the negative perception of our team is to be unconventional.

That could be what Graves is up to.

Overpay to get a "name" player? WRONG! They use our negative perception against us, to get stupid money, and any player that does that, is not the type of player we NEED.

We need hungry players. Players looking for a chance. Players happy to be here. Players that were perhaps stuck playing behind a local fan favorite, and are just as good, or better than the starter. Salary cap casualties.

I don't care about "names," I want players that can make a "name" for themselves HERE. They're out there.

If we can just pick up some good talent, regardless of pedigree, and start to win some games, I think the whole thing can turn around. A little winning, a new venue, more butts in seats, and WE could become the team players take less money to play for. Until that happens, the rest of the league has an unfair advantage on us, and that coupled with our negative perception, is too much to overcome.

I'm now willing to let this process play out, wait till training camp to evaluate this offseason, and HOPE it all works. After all...Do we have any other choice?

 

[RedStorm]

We need hungry players. Players looking for a chance. Players happy to be here. Players that were perhaps stuck playing behind a local fan favorite, and are just as good, or better than the starter. Salary cap casualties.

So, they are with us. We make them into a star and they are an UFA. What is it that is going to keep them here? What has to change? (something has to since the last umpteen years have been a loser). What has to change?

 

[Lex]

What has to change?

We need to pick hungry young players that can eventually win. The ability to pick talent is always going to be an issue, but the way we've started signing some of our young guy's is a step in the direction we need to go.

Putting the franchise tag on players that don't want to be here has got to stop, and did this year, no matter if we lose the player or not. Lassiter is a prime example. We franchise him, give him 3.3 million for one year, he's pissed, and seems to tank the season, while he bad mouths us to other players. NOW he learns how good a deal he had here, when it's too late! How can he save face now? Let our free agents test the market if they need to, if they're gone, so be it. If they come back and sign with us, they CAN.

 

[Ed B]

Originally posted by Lex



We need hungry players. Players looking for a chance. Players happy to be here. Players that were perhaps stuck playing behind a local fan favorite, and are just as good, or better than the starter. Salary cap casualties.

We have a ton of "try-hard" guys like this already on the team and it doesn't get us anywhere. The kind of guys like KVB and Renaldo Hill who play balls-out on every play are usually doing so to make up for a lack of talent.

All the fire, intensity, and pep talking in the world isn't going to make Wakefield, Tanner, or KVB into great pass rushers because they just don't have enough physical skill.

So these kinds of try-hard players you're talking about are important to have, but it's also important to have some real marquee talent, some difference makers.

And if your argument is that we should sign some "hungry" players and just hope they turn into stars once they get here, i think that's wishful thinking.

 

[RedStorm]

Re: What has to change?

Originally posted by Lex
We need to pick hungry young players that can eventually win. The ability to pick talent is always going to be an issue, but the way we've started signing some of our young guy's is a step in the direction we need to go.

Putting the franchise tag on players that don't want to be here has got to stop, and did this year, no matter if we lose the player or not. Lassiter is a prime example. We franchise him, give him 3.3 million for one year, he's pissed, and seems to tank the season, while he bad mouths us to other players. NOW he learns how good a deal he had here, when it's too late! How can he save face now? Let our free agents test the market if they need to, if they're gone, so be it. If they come back and sign with us, they CAN.

Would you keep the same business practices? No bonuses for workouts? No slotted insurance for draft picks? How about signing our drafts picks every year on time?

I agree with good drafting. But we need to change the business practices if this ship is ever going to turn. I am starting to wonder if '98 was a fluke.

 

[Lex]

All marquee players are "try hard" players. Marquee players were ALL no names at some point. (Jerry Rice - Terrell Davis) I agree that since Mac took over, we have increased our hungry players by 500 %, but that only brought us up to about half of our team. Now we need the other half to be the same. I believe that if this happens, we will see that guy's like KVB don't really have to work harder because of a lack of their own talent, they will be more successful, because there will be more players like them on the roster.

We do need to get in line with what every other franchise does regarding contracts. Till we do, the perception of us won't change.

 

[Ed B]

Originally posted by Lex
All marquee players are "try hard" players.

Randy Moss? Simeon Rice? Keyshawn Johnson?


Try again.

 

[Lex]

Point taken. I guess it would depend on your definition of "marquee." Another word would be "overrated." Moss, Rice, and Key, fit the latter in my book. I guess a player can be an overrated marquee player. Imagine how good an overrated marquee player could be if they were also try hard players.

Randy Moss is a perfect example. Chris Carter and Robert Smith leave, and Randy looks like dead cap money.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Lex
Point taken. I guess it would depend on your definition of "marquee." Another word would be "overrated." Moss, Rice, and Key, fit the latter in my book. I guess a player can be an overrated marquee player. Imagine how good an overrated marquee player could be if they were also try hard players.

Randy Moss is a perfect example. Chris Carter and Robert Smith leave, and Randy looks like dead cap money.

Moss may be a complete jerk, strike that Moss IS a complete jerk, but he's still a great player, one that would hardly qualify as dead cap money.

106 catches, 7 TD's on a team with a lousy OL. The TD figure is the lowest of his career, as is the YPC figure but on a lousy team one would expect some of his stats to fall off as teams key on him.

Take Moss off Minnesota and you have a significantly worse team.

 

[Lex]

Russ stat

How many games did Randy cost the queens by "taking some plays off." How many games did the "Randy quota" cost them. How many yards would their running back have, if Randy would block downfield? When you have to overpay a guy like Randy, your going to lose other good players that MADE him look good.

If they go 3-13 again next year, and Randy decides he wants out...he's dead cap money.

 

[Russ Smith]

Re: Russ stat

Originally posted by Lex
How many games did Randy cost the queens by "taking some plays off." How many games did the "Randy quota" cost them. How many yards would their running back have, if Randy would block downfield? When you have to overpay a guy like Randy, your going to lose other good players that MADE him look good.

If they go 3-13 again next year, and Randy decides he wants out...he's dead cap money.

Moss' bad year was almost as good as Boston's best year here.

Bennett averaged over 5 YPC, led the NFL in it, had more long runs than most RB's, so while Moss is not a complete player, he didn't hurt the team as much as is made out.

Yes he takes plays off and I wish he didn't but that team sucks for a lot of reasons that have nothing to do with moss, theOL, injuries, decimated defense, etc.

FYI the Randy Quota was his coaches' idea not his, most NFL people thought it was a great idea when Tice announced it, now that they had a lousy year suddenly that was the reason?

I'm not advocating trading for Moss mind you, I just dispute the notion he's dead cap money.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Lex, I must say, your initial post had some interesting points.

Maybe we should all remember New England two years ago. They stocked their roster with basically a bunch of "no names" and look what it got them.

You don't always have to have an entire lineup of all pro's to win.
Getting Colvin would have been nice indeed, but We (the Cards) took a hit, we're still standing. Maybe a little shaky at the moment, but we are still standing.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
Lex, I must say, your initial post had some interesting points.

Maybe we should all remember New England two years ago. They stocked their roster with basically a bunch of "no names" and look what it got them.

You don't always have to have an entire lineup of all pro's to win.
Getting Colvin would have been nice indeed, but We (the Cards) took a hit, we're still standing. Maybe a little shaky at the moment, but we are still standing.

What exactly does still standing mean? Does it mean We are still allowed to be part of the NFL? Man, Tango - how thick are those rose colored galsses and do they have night vision?

 

[RedStorm]

but We (the Cards) took a hit, we're still standing. Maybe a little shaky at the moment, but we are still standing.

Maybe we are dead on our feet??? Weekend at Bernie's. (or should I say Billy's)

 

[john h]

Originally posted by RedStorm
So, they are with us. We make them into a star and they are an UFA. What is it that is going to keep them here? What has to change? (something has to since the last umpteen years have been a loser). What has to change?

At the NFL level you need to be more than hungary. You need to be very good also.

 

[Lex]

Hungry players have a much better chance to be very good.

It's like life. You're young, trying to figure out what to do with your life, and decide you want to be rich. So you go to school to learn how to be a lawyer. You become a lawyer, but hate your job so much, you suck, and get disbarred.

Or...you decide you love to play golf, and since you love it so much, you become really good, and turn out to be Tiger Woods.

The moral of the story is: do what you love, and work hard enough at it to be the best, and the money will be there.

All we need to do, is find those players.

 

[john h]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
Moss may be a complete jerk, strike that Moss IS a complete jerk, but he's still a great player, one that would hardly qualify as dead cap money.

106 catches, 7 TD's on a team with a lousy OL. The TD figure is the lowest of his career, as is the YPC figure but on a lousy team one would expect some of his stats to fall off as teams key on him.

Take Moss off Minnesota and you have a significantly worse team.

Moss is dead cap money?? He is an ass but an all pro ass who is one of the top 3 receivers in the NFL.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

lex, if you love something and work hard at it the money is NOT guaranteed. that's a stupid statement. i guarantee no one on this board could play pro ball with the love and work ethic minus the talent. get a grip.

WHEEEEEEE - I'm gonna work hard!
WHEEEEEEEEEE - I love football!
WHEEEEEEEEEEE - the cards should sign me to a $5 million contract!

by george! i've found it! i've found fantasy land!