2023 Phoenix Suns Offseason

[ASUCHRIS]

It still doesn't feel right to me for the Suns to trade Cam Payne in what amounted to a salary dump.

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Love Cam as a person, but he wasn't reliable enough to keep around.

 

[Superbone]

Love Cam as a person, but he wasn't reliable enough to keep around.

Yep, maybe not his fault but the best ability is availability. Can't help us if he's not playing. And intermittent playing is even worse. Can't develop a rhythm.

 

[Mainstreet]

Love Cam as a person, but he wasn't reliable enough to keep around.

As I see it, Cam Payne was more valuable on the roster than Ish Wainright.

A team shouldn't give away a player that averaged 10.3 points and 4.5 assists in 48 regular season games last season.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

As I see it, Cam Payne was more valuable on the roster than Ish Wainright.

A team shouldn't give away a player that averaged 10.3 points and 4.5 assists in 48 regular season games last season.

Because of the extremes in the luxury tax, getting rid of Payne's $6.5 million salary in exchange for Bol on the minimum saves Phoenix $26.4 million on the tax

On top of that they get a 6.5m trade exception, which is very important for a team that lacks flexibility. Neither of those benefits are realized by swapping Ish out for Payne.

 

[Mainstreet]

Because of the extremes in the luxury tax, getting rid of Payne's $6.5 million salary in exchange for Bol on the minimum saves Phoenix $26.4 million on the tax

On top of that they get a 6.5m trade exception, which is very important for a team that lacks flexibility. Neither of those benefits are realized by swapping Ish out for Payne.

I mentioned trading Cam Payne amounted to a salary dump. I think the comparison should be between Cam Payne vs Ish Wainright.

The test is will the Suns add a player better than Cam Payne with the trade exception.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Love Cam as a person, but he wasn't reliable enough to keep around.

Eh… our depth is unquestionably worse without him. Would have loved to see him and Gordon manning the second unit and not crazy about the cost cutting move while trying to do everything possible to win that chip.

 

[Adrian]

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[ASUCHRIS]

Eh… our depth is unquestionably worse without him. Would have loved to see him and Gordon manning the second unit and not crazy about the cost cutting move while trying to do everything possible to win that chip.

While we lost Payne we added both Beal and Gordon who can handle the ball. Let's see what they end up doing with the trade exception.

Cam Payne at his best is a contributor on a championship. Unfortunately, he's been incredibly unreliable the past 2 seasons. I'm willing to role the dice on our other ball handlers and think we'll probably add more at the position if it appears a need.

 

[JCSunsfan]

As I see it, Cam Payne was more valuable on the roster than Ish Wainright.

A team shouldn't give away a player that averaged 10.3 points and 4.5 assists in 48 regular season games last season.

He was going to move from the third guard to the fifth, behind Book, Beale, Gordon, and Goodwin (who has value as a defensive stopper). Even billionaires can't justify an extra $26.4 million for a fifth guard (and that includes the signing of Bol Bol).

Cam Payne trade highlights Suns' creativity with new NBA rules

The Phoenix Suns' creativity in getting better with restrictions in place has already brought benefits this offseason.

arizonasports.com

Cam's career would have taken a dive as well. He would have sat on the bench most of the time. This was the correct move for everyone.

A $26.4 million savings is much more than a salary dump. In fact, trading Payne for Bol straight up might make sense just from a basketball perspective given the make up of the team. They did that and save a boatload of money as well.

 

[Mainstreet]

He was going to move from the third guard to the fifth, behind Book, Beale, Gordon, and Goodwin (who has value as a defensive stopper). Even billionaires can't justify an extra $26.4 million for a fifth guard (and that includes the signing of Bol Bol).

Cam Payne trade highlights Suns' creativity with new NBA rules

The Phoenix Suns' creativity in getting better with restrictions in place has already brought benefits this offseason.

arizonasports.com

Cam's career would have taken a dive as well. He would have sat on the bench most of the time. This was the correct move for everyone.

A $26.4 million savings is much more than a salary dump. In fact, trading Payne for Bol straight up might make sense just from a basketball perspective given the make up of the team. They did that and save a boatload of money as well.

Actually, there are/were rumors the Suns may want TJ McConnell. So the Suns still might be interested in another point guard.

Wainright's salary is not guaranteed, so the Suns didn't have to only choose between Payne and Bol Bol.

I understand dumping salary but I hope the move was made for different reasons like possibly acquiring another player with the trade exception later on.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Suns play the Warriors on opening night, Tuesday, October 2023 on TNT.

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[AzStevenCal]

Wainright's salary is not guaranteed, so the Suns didn't have to only choose between Payne and Bol Bol.

I understand dumping salary but I hope the move was made for different reasons like possibly acquiring another player with the trade exception later on.

I'm not sure why you keep bringing Ish into a conversation about Payne? It really wasn't a one or the other situation. CP is a legit rotation player when he's on top of his game, Wainright is a cheerleader. And even if you ignore money, I can't see Payne content with the role Ish will likely play this year.

Last year, even with injuries and an incredibly short bench, Wainright still logged fewer than 1000 minutes - and if he gets that many again this season it probably means we're blowing out teams or we're overworking our medical staff again. Payne is the much better player but for someone at the butt end of the roster, Wainright is the better fit for us.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm not sure why you keep bringing Ish into a conversation about Payne? It really wasn't a one or the other situation. CP is a legit rotation player when he's on top of his game, Wainright is a cheerleader. And even if you ignore money, I can't see Payne content with the role Ish will likely play this year.

Last year, even with injuries and an incredibly short bench, Wainright still logged fewer than 1000 minutes - and if he gets that many again this season it probably means we're blowing out teams or we're overworking our medical staff again. Payne is the much better player but for someone at the butt end of the roster, Wainright is the better fit for us.

Actually, this is my whole point. Given a choice, I would have kept Cam Payne over Ish Wainright. Cam is the better player.

If you reread my posts, this was the point I was making. As I interpreted it, some perceived it as a choice between Payne and Bol Bol.

Wainright's salary is not guaranteed as yet.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Actually, this is my whole point. Given a choice, I would have kept Cam Payne over Ish Wainright. He is the better player.

If you reread my posts, this was the point I was making. As I read it, some perceived it as a choice between Payne and Bol Bol.

Do you not accept that there are starters, rotation players and end of bench guys? Payne is a rotation player, even a borderline starter. You're just asking for morale problems putting someone like Payne in the 15th man role that Ish is being paid to occupy. And if you're paying someone 6.5 million a year to be a cheerleader, you're also going to kill your cap situation.

 

[Mainstreet]

Do you not accept that there are starters, rotation players and end of bench guys? Payne is a rotation player, even a borderline starter. You're just asking for morale problems putting someone like Payne in the 15th man role that Ish is being paid to occupy. And if you're paying someone 6.5 million a year to be a cheerleader, you're also going to kill your cap situation.

The Suns haven't even gone to training camp and unfortunately there is such a thing as injuries. I hadn't eliminated Payne as a rotation player.

I don't believe in giving away talent unless the Suns plan to use the trade exception.

Now, if Cam Payne wanted out like Jae Crowder, that's another story.

Also, the Suns might be pursuing another player with the trade exception, which makes it more understandable.

 

[Mainstreet]

@AzStevenCal

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[Yuma]

Cam was a trade piece because of his salary. We saved money for sure. There's no benefit for a trade exception for Ish since his salary is basically the Vet minimum.

 

[Hoop Head]

While having the trade exception is nice that won't score any points or make any plays for us. Payne could do those things. As an expiring contract I believe he was just as moveable as the exception, and for salary purposes would account for the same amount in a deal. I would have preferred hanging onto Payne longer before dumping him for essentially nothing. Until, or rather unless, that exception is used then it doesn't help us in game. We still haven't used the Saric trade exception so I don't see the real upside in acquiring another, albeit slightly larger exception.

Payne has proven to be a good soldier. He's never caused any rifts where he's been about playing time. The Suns gave him a second chance and kept him from going to China when they signed him initially. I really doubt he'd make waves if he wasn't used heavily. Look at his recent comments, he wanted to be here. He chose us over more money a couple years ago as well. Phoenix became his home. Sucks to lose him for nothing.

 

[clyde2tw]

The offseason has been a great success for the Suns. This is most evident in a current interview when Landale said he and Craig were both disappointed that they only got offered the minimum. Now, we know the Suns had better options at their respective positions in Eubanks and KBD already lined up for the min, to justify paying more for lesser talent. And Metu, Bol Bol, Watanabe, and even Camara with a little experience, may play more than either of them. Similarly, with Beal, Gordon, Goodwin and even Saben Lee, we really don't need Payne's streaky scoring ability any more, at over 30mil costs with the luxury tax. And better yet, they don't have much to complain as both Landale and Craig got more than decent contracts due to their association with the Suns, and Suns guaranteed Payne's contract along with better rotation situation on the Spurs. It's a perfect win-win.

 

[Mainstreet]

While having the trade exception is nice that won't score any points or make any plays for us. Payne could do those things. As an expiring contract I believe he was just as moveable as the exception, and for salary purposes would account for the same amount in a deal. I would have preferred hanging onto Payne longer before dumping him for essentially nothing. Until, or rather unless, that exception is used then it doesn't help us in game. We still haven't used the Saric trade exception so I don't see the real upside in acquiring another, albeit slightly larger exception.

Payne has proven to be a good soldier. He's never caused any rifts where he's been about playing time. The Suns gave him a second chance and kept him from going to China when they signed him initially. I really doubt he'd make waves if he wasn't used heavily. Look at his recent comments, he wanted to be here. He chose us over more money a couple years ago as well. Phoenix became his home. Sucks to lose him for nothing.

Excellent point about the Suns still having the Saric trade exception.

 

[Yuma]

We will see Saric on opening night in GS!

 

[Superbone]

We will see Saric on opening night in GS!

Why do you think they put it on national TV? It’s the Saric revenge game!

 

[Hoop Head]

The offseason has been a great success for the Suns. This is most evident in a current interview when Landale said he and Craig were both disappointed that they only got offered the minimum. Now, we know the Suns had better options at their respective positions in Eubanks and KBD already lined up for the min, to justify paying more for lesser talent. And Metu, Bol Bol, Watanabe, and even Camara with a little experience, may play more than either of them. Similarly, with Beal, Gordon, Goodwin and even Saben Lee, we really don't need Payne's streaky scoring ability any more, at over 30mil costs with the luxury tax. And better yet, they don't have much to complain as both Landale and Craig got more than decent contracts due to their association with the Suns, and Suns guaranteed Payne's contract along with better rotation situation on the Spurs. It's a perfect win-win.

Craig deserved more than the minimum. Just because we signed other guys for the minimum, when their only way to join this team was by signing for that much, doesn't mean we should have lowballed Craig.

I don't care much about the owner saving money. I appreciate his willingness to spend but we shouldn't give him a pass for saving a few bucks at the possible expense of the teams roster. We would be a better team with Payne than without. If Sarver made the same move, he'd be crucified. We're not talking cap space after all so that money he saved isn't really going elsewhere.

 

[Superbone]

Craig deserved more than the minimum. Just because we signed other guys for the minimum, when their only way to join this team was by signing for that much, doesn't mean we should have lowballed Craig.

I don't care much about the owner saving money. I appreciate his willingness to spend but we shouldn't give him a pass for saving a few bucks at the possible expense of the teams roster. We would be a better team with Payne than without. If Sarver made the same move, he'd be crucified. We're not talking cap space after all so that money he saved isn't really going elsewhere.

LOL. A few bucks = 26 million in this case.

 

[Covert Rain]

Eh… our depth is unquestionably worse without him. Would have loved to see him and Gordon manning the second unit and not crazy about the cost cutting move while trying to do everything possible to win that chip.

I might have agreed prior to getting Eric Gordon. Payne just didn't show up so often that you couldn't rely on him to provide that depth. He wasn't going to get much playing time with all the ball handlers we have anyway IMO which made him expendable. Add on the salary save and it was a no brainer IMO.