2023 Phoenix Suns Offseason

[Treesquid PhD]

Our Savior D'Lo
Game 1 8 points 4/11 0/3 for 3
Game 2 10 points 3/8, 1/5 from 3
Game 3 1/8 3 points 1/6 from 3.

This is where we want to spend 31 million? lol

 

[Hoop Head]

Monty got fired because he put KD in the corner and made him a decoy and that was it, that was going to be the offense moving forward, Monty is married to his .5 offense and even Jones knew that wouldn't work next year. It should have been Jones but I am assuming Jones got a mulligan for a year because Ishbia sent 7 assets to BKLN.

But James Jones is the real fraud, his type of guys like Shamet and Nader have riddled this roster for too long this will be his last year.

Did you even watch the games? KD wasn't in the corner. He may have been a decoy on some sets for Booker but what else do you want him to do in an Iso set for Book? Look at KD's shot chart, he wasn't jacking corner 3's. He played similarly to Book, who wasn't in the corner either.

As far as Monty being obsessed with his .5 offense, that's also off since we really didn't see that offense once CP3 arrived. Do you even know what the .5 offense is? Serious question because we haven't seen it for 3 years. Its when no one holds the ball for more than half a second, either shoot or pass and that wasn't the offense. We had a slow grit and grind midrange offense more suited for the 90's or early 2000's.

Monty was fired because the team was bounced in the second round again and he didn't make any adjustments to counter what Denver was doing. He was also fired because someone was going to get to the boot if this season didn't end in a championship and JJ got a pass since everyone knows it was Ishbia who pushed the KD trade through. Ishbia wasn't firing himself for derailing our season but JJ was to blame for the lack of depth that Monty had, which he probably wouldn't have used but that's another reason why Monty was canned.

To add, you clearly don't get how the league works as far as friends teaming up and how influential stars are. If Book says he wants to play with D'Lo then the Suns will try and make it happen. He was huge for LA in the second half of the season and first 2 rounds of the playoffs. Dismiss him all you want for playing poorly against Denver but the Suns also played pretty poorly against Denver. D'Lo would be a big upgrade over what Paul brings at this point.

 

[DJ Tabooh]

Did you even watch the games? KD wasn't in the corner. He may have been a decoy on some sets for Booker but what else do you want him to do in an Iso set for Book? Look at KD's shot chart, he wasn't jacking corner 3's. He played similarly to Book, who wasn't in the corner either.

As far as Monty being obsessed with his .5 offense, that's also off since we really didn't see that offense once CP3 arrived. Do you even know what the .5 offense is? Serious question because we haven't seen it for 3 years. Its when no one holds the ball for more than half a second, either shoot or pass and that wasn't the offense. We had a slow grit and grind midrange offense more suited for the 90's or early 2000's.

Monty was fired because the team was bounced in the second round again and he didn't make any adjustments to counter what Denver was doing. He was also fired because someone was going to get to the boot if this season didn't end in a championship and JJ got a pass since everyone knows it was Ishbia who pushed the KD trade through. Ishbia wasn't firing himself for derailing our season but JJ was to blame for the lack of depth that Monty had, which he probably wouldn't have used but that's another reason why Monty was canned.

To add, you clearly don't get how the league works as far as friends teaming up and how influential stars are. If Book says he wants to play with D'Lo then the Suns will try and make it happen. He was huge for LA in the second half of the season and first 2 rounds of the playoffs. Dismiss him all you want for playing poorly against Denver but the Suns also played pretty poorly against Denver. D'Lo would be a big upgrade over what Paul brings at this point.

Suns at least won 2 games against Denver even though it took Book going Supernova and KD to play well for us to win.

I like DLo but I don’t like his style of play. He shoots a lot of tough fadeaway shots and tries to draw contact doing some of the Harden rip-through stuff.

Can he get hot? Sure but I don’t trust his decision making and shot selection and he’s a target on defense.

Gimme Fred VanVleet. Solid defender. Good shooter. Better as a 3rd option where he doesn’t have to force things. He was a 2 in Toronto behind Siakam but that probably wasn’t sustainable.

He’s made an All-star team before and if he were to average 15-17 a game on 40% from 3, I’d rather allocate that money personally.

I’ve also wanted Caruso and Josh Hart because they had very similar contracts to what we gave Landry Shamet.

Oh well, hopefully we can retool this season with guys who KNOW they’re rose and do it consistently.

 

[Phrazbit]

Did you even watch the games? KD wasn't in the corner. He may have been a decoy on some sets for Booker but what else do you want him to do in an Iso set for Book? Look at KD's shot chart, he wasn't jacking corner 3's. He played similarly to Book, who wasn't in the corner either.

I've brought this up repeatedly.

Not only was KD not stuck in the corner but if you look at his heat map on offense it is literally the place where he was LEAST.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't think Paul breaking down was the main problem. Coaching was. CP/DA pnr, during the course of playoffs, became less and less effective with no more spacing gain but more turnovers. Good teams know sooner or later how to defend it. Yet, we had no alterantives, variations, adjustments. This year we changed to KD/Book ISOs, yet no proper complementary sets in place to make it more effective. On D, the other teams also could figure out our weakness and exploit it.

While I don’t disagree about the coaching, I think you’re underselling Paul’s decline. It was a combination of the two. There’s really no way to completely scheme the pick and roll when run with five guys that have the requisite skill for each position. It’s why it’s never gone away in the nba and is a staple of virtually every offense. The reason it becomes toothless is one or more of the players can no longer consistently perform their requisite job in the scheme against a motivated, disciplined defense. Teams didn’t just all of a sudden figure out how to stop the pick and roll.

 

[SirStefan32]

Did you even watch the games? KD wasn't in the corner. He may have been a decoy on some sets for Booker but what else do you want him to do in an Iso set for Book? Look at KD's shot chart, he wasn't jacking corner 3's. He played similarly to Book, who wasn't in the corner either.

As far as Monty being obsessed with his .5 offense, that's also off since we really didn't see that offense once CP3 arrived. Do you even know what the .5 offense is? Serious question because we haven't seen it for 3 years. Its when no one holds the ball for more than half a second, either shoot or pass and that wasn't the offense. We had a slow grit and grind midrange offense more suited for the 90's or early 2000's.

Monty was fired because the team was bounced in the second round again and he didn't make any adjustments to counter what Denver was doing. He was also fired because someone was going to get to the boot if this season didn't end in a championship and JJ got a pass since everyone knows it was Ishbia who pushed the KD trade through. Ishbia wasn't firing himself for derailing our season but JJ was to blame for the lack of depth that Monty had, which he probably wouldn't have used but that's another reason why Monty was canned.

To add, you clearly don't get how the league works as far as friends teaming up and how influential stars are. If Book says he wants to play with D'Lo then the Suns will try and make it happen. He was huge for LA in the second half of the season and first 2 rounds of the playoffs. Dismiss him all you want for playing poorly against Denver but the Suns also played pretty poorly against Denver. D'Lo would be a big upgrade over what Paul brings at this point.

I was thinking the same thing- we haven't seen that offense in years.

 

[JCSunsfan]

It is clear that the Suns need to solve the pg problem. Clearly this team is worse with CP3 playing.

I wonder about Ayton and whether his lack of motivation was related to Monty. Maybe we should give a new coach a shot at him before shipping him off. I think a fire sale with DA would be a mistake. Go ahead and make the trade if the right deal comes along.

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

Again, there's no fixing DeAndre Ayton, the whole team tried to encourage, coddle, enable, support, motivate, and fix DeAndre Ayton. There is no DeAndre Ayton whisperer, we can't keep kidding ourselves, dude disappears more than David Copperfield

 

[GatorAZ]

Again, there's no fixing DeAndre Ayton, the whole team tried to encourage, coddle, enable, support, motivate, and fix DeAndre Ayton. There is no DeAndre Ayton whisperer, we can't keep kidding ourselves, dude disappears more than David Copperfield

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[Vacard]

And I disagree. I believe just about every team in the league would jump at that deal. Bridges had an offseason on defense and efficiency, for whatever reason, but even still he comes out on top if you compare their stats and advanced stats from this season. He also doesn't have anything like Murray's disappearing act on his resume nor any injury history.

Well if by over the top you're talking about being legitimate favorites to win it all, I don't think anything would have done that unless you're talking about adding a star to the roster we had or trading just picks for KD. I'd wager against our slightly upgraded previous roster winning it all but I do believe it had a better chance than the post trade roster.

You overrate former suns players. No GM will trade Murrat for Bridges lmao.

 

[AzStevenCal]

You overrate former suns players. No GM will trade Murrat for Bridges lmao.

So which former Suns players do I overrate in your opinion other than Bridges? Usually I get accused of overrating Suns players while they are with the team and downgrading them when they're gone. I'm interested to see you make your case, absurd though it is.

Listen, I get that some people disagree and believe Murray is better and that's fine. And before his injury I'd absolutely agree (even in comparison to Mikal today). Murray's career was in ascension after the bubble year postseason. He'd arrived on the scene but it's a what have you done for me lately league and his stock since then has slid.

This year, and this year only, Mikal, despite struggling for 6 weeks or so earlier in the season, has arguably outplayed Murray not just on defense but on both ends of the court. Not by much at all but the stats show him to have been a slightly better player this season.

That fact, coupled with the fact that since we traded him, Mikal has greatly increased his stock throughout the league makes me believe he'd have more value in trade. And that's before you factor in that Mikal is locked up for 3 more years for just under 70 million while Murray will earn 80 million in his two remaining years. On top of all this, Murray has missed 54 games over the past 3 seasons while Mikal has been a workhorse.

 

[Phrazbit]

So which former Suns players do I overrate in your opinion other than Bridges? Usually I get accused of overrating Suns players while they are with the team and downgrading them when they're gone. I'm interested to see you make your case, absurd though it is.

Listen, I get that some people disagree and believe Murray is better and that's fine. And before his injury I'd absolutely agree (even in comparison to Mikal today). Murray's career was in ascension after the bubble year postseason. He'd arrived on the scene but it's a what have you done for me lately league and his stock since then has slid.

This year, and this year only, Mikal, despite struggling for 6 weeks or so earlier in the season, has arguably outplayed Murray not just on defense but on both ends of the court. Not by much at all but the stats show him to have been a slightly better player this season.

That fact, coupled with the fact that since we traded him, Mikal has greatly increased his stock throughout the league makes me believe he'd have more value in trade. And that's before you factor in that Mikal is locked up for 3 more years for just under 70 million while Murray will earn 80 million in his two remaining years. On top of all this, Murray has missed 54 games over the past 3 seasons while Mikal has been a workhorse.

He's missed more time than that. Murray has missed 136 games the last 3 seasons. He didn't play in 21/22 entirely.

 

[Proximo]

not bad, but I like would like the third pick a whole lot more.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[AzStevenCal]

not bad, but I like would like the third pick a whole lot more.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Actually it's better than I would have expected. At first glance, I think it's a good deal for us.

 

[Hoop Head]

not bad, but I like would like the third pick a whole lot more.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Take it and don't look back. Either Green or the #10 can be dealt again for a PG of some sort.

 

[Phrazbit]

Take it and don't look back. Either Green or the #10 can be dealt again for a PG of some sort.

I disagree, Green and the 10 are the only appealing parts of the trade.

Hardaway is an inefficient black hole and McGee is completely useless at this stage of his career.

 

[Proximo]

Take it and don't look back. Either Green or the #10 can be dealt again for a PG of some sort.

I don’t understand this fascination with getting a pg. we already have a great one - Booker.

hardaway could be our two guard.

 

[Mainstreet]

Actually it's better than I would have expected. At first glance, I think it's a good deal for us.

There are some variations on this trade that includes Bertans and a pick I believe in 2027.

 

[Phrazbit]

not bad, but I like would like the third pick a whole lot more.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

I'd hope we can do better than a decent prospect (Green), a draft pick, and 2 sub par role players on bad contracts.

I also have zero interest in helping Dallas fix their mess... and that would go a long way to helping them fix their mess.

 

[Mainstreet]

This is what is being written at Arizona Sports per reported NBA executives.

From Arizona Sports:


More than one NBA source said they expect Dallas to be a likely destination for Phoenix Suns center Deandre Ayton. Doncic and Ayton share an agent (Bill Duffy of WME Sports) and are said to have a good relationship. “The Suns need depth. I can see them getting Tim Hardaway Jr., JaVale [McGee] back, Josh Green and No. 10,” another source said. “Phoenix would probably flip the pick to another team for depth, or maybe it’d be a big multi-team deal.” Dallas can offer others like Maxi Kleber, Davis Bertans, Reggie Bullock and Jaden Hardy. But Kleber is said to be one of Doncic’s best friends on the team (and one of its better players) and the least likely to be dealt.

NBA execs believe Mavs could be in on Suns' Deandre Ayton

Buzz continues to hum on the future of Suns center Deandre Ayton following Phoenix's consecutive second-round exits in the playoffs.

arizonasports.com

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'd hope we can do better than a decent prospect (Green), a draft pick, and 2 sub par role players on bad contracts.

I also have zero interest in helping Dallas fix their mess... and that would go a long way to helping them fix their mess.

DeAndre Ayton doesn’t fix any team’s mess.

That said, that deal is pretty meh unless we could flip the pick and Hardaway (who I agree is a black hole) for a solid impact role player to go with Greene.

 

[Mainstreet]

I don’t understand this fascination with getting a pg. we already have a great one - Booker.

hardaway could be our two guard.

I think Booker needs a combo type guard next to him that can help him carry the load as a distributor if the Suns go without a point guard.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think Booker needs a combo type guard next to him that can help him carry the load as a distributor if the Suns go without a point guard.

Agreed.

 

[Phrazbit]

DeAndre Ayton doesn’t fix any team’s mess.

That said, that deal is pretty meh unless we could flip the pick and Hardaway (who I agree is a black hole) for a solid impact role player to go with Greene.

Ayton could be the same mercurial pud there that he is here and it would be a huge boon for Dallas. He'd represent a huge upgrade defensively, not that he is a world better but the rest of their bigs are hot garbage on D, and one thing that Ayton consistently does well is set screens and Doncic would play off that brutally.

 

[Hoop Head]

Hardaway is solid as a Sixth Man microwave. He's not a starter.

I don't see the need in Green and #10 at this stage, which is why I think one should be flipped for a piece to help now.

McGee isn't great but he's an average Center who can handle 20-25 minutes a night at the spot and provides good rim protection. As seen when he was here, he can fill the role Ayton had without any real dropoff. Spare me the playoff stuff, we all watched him struggle against Dallas because they run a 5 out offense that exploits his weaknesses, which is defending on the perimeter.

The way this deal could help add overall talent to the team, depending on what can done with Green or the pick. Whichever has more value should be flipped for a starter.

As far as Book being a PG, he's not a fulltime PG and moving him there would create a hole at SG. We need a combo guard, as Mainstreet said, which is what the modern PG's are turning into across the league.