2023 Phoenix Suns Offseason

[Hoop Head]

Absolutely they ignored the need for a couple of physical bangers who could rebound & D up. 6'11"Ayton was joined on the frontline with razor thin 6-6 210lb Bridges and a generous claimed height of the 6-6 235 lb Crowder and without a true back up center or Power forward. Ayton had his hands full against the Bucks. As the Bucks countered with prime 6'11"Giannis, along with 7'0 Brooks Lopez and 6'7" Middleton. I thought the refs were very Giannis friendly during those 2021 finals. Suns really loaded up on personal this off season however & hope it pays off.

Don't forgot their 6th man, 6'11 Bobby Portis. The Bucks had size for days.

That's why I'm still not entirely sold on this off-seasons moves. We added some high quality guards in Beal and Gordon as well as some wing depth in Bates-Diop, Yuta, and a returning Okogie. However it seems the frontline was neglected some, albeit not as bad as it's been previously. Eubanks and Metu are ideally developmental players who are part time second stringers simply to develop them more than they've earned 18-25 minutes a night. I hope it works out but we're probably going to need to make a move to acquire a PF/C or C/PF by the deadline so we're ready for the playoffs. If Ayton goes down or checks out, we'll be too small to make a legitimate championship push.

 

[Chaplin]

Don't forgot their 6th man, 6'11 Bobby Portis. The Bucks had size for days.

That's why I'm still not entirely sold on this off-seasons moves. We added some high quality guards in Beal and Gordon as well as some wing depth in Bates-Diop, Yuta, and a returning Okogie. However it seems the frontline was neglected some, albeit not as bad as it's been previously. Eubanks and Metu are ideally developmental players who are part time second stringers simply to develop them more than they've earned 18-25 minutes a night. I hope it works out but we're probably going to need to make a move to acquire a PF/C or C/PF by the deadline so we're ready for the playoffs. If Ayton goes down or checks out, we'll be too small to make a legitimate championship push.

See this post is really confusing. Eubanks is a project? He’s a career backup and a pretty decent one at that.

I think you overestimate other teams size for one and for two, never talk about matchups because posts like this seem to be against the idea that teams should match up to us not the other way around, which Monty liked to do.

The NBA is a complex league, far more complex that dumbing it down to big vs small. You’re also making Middleton out to be a big man when he was only an inch or two taller than both Bridges and book. Now our power forward is 6’11” KD and we suddenly don’t have size to match up with the Bucks today? Huh?

 

[Mainstreet]

Don't forgot their 6th man, 6'11 Bobby Portis. The Bucks had size for days.

That's why I'm still not entirely sold on this off-seasons moves. We added some high quality guards in Beal and Gordon as well as some wing depth in Bates-Diop, Yuta, and a returning Okogie. However it seems the frontline was neglected some, albeit not as bad as it's been previously. Eubanks and Metu are ideally developmental players who are part time second stringers simply to develop them more than they've earned 18-25 minutes a night. I hope it works out but we're probably going to need to make a move to acquire a PF/C or C/PF by the deadline so we're ready for the playoffs. If Ayton goes down or checks out, we'll be too small to make a legitimate championship push.

I think the Suns will need more depth at the 4/5 as well.

I've liked Drew Eubanks for years but there is a reason he is not getting paid big dollars. He is a nice backup center but he is a step-down from Jock Landale. However, he will bang inside which is what the Suns need.

Asking Durant to play a lot inside is asking for trouble. The Suns need to keep him healthy.

 

[Hoop Head]

See this post is really confusing. Eubanks is a project? He’s a career backup and a pretty decent one at that.

I think you overestimate other teams size for one and for two, never talk about matchups because posts like this seem to be against the idea that teams should match up to us not the other way around, which Monty liked to do.

The NBA is a complex league, far more complex that dumbing it down to big vs small. You’re also making Middleton out to be a big man when he was only an inch or two taller than both Bridges and book. Now our power forward is 6’11” KD and we suddenly don’t have size to match up with the Bucks today? Huh?

Where did I say anything about Middleton? Seems you're mixing two posts together. Regardless, Milwaukee were playing Middleton at SG, which gave them a real size advantage. Our PF now being bigger than him should be expected since he was their SG. They were able to play big with 3 7' footers on the floor at once in Lopez, Portis, and Giannis with 2 big guards in Middleton and Holiday in the backcourt. We couldn't matchup then and would have trouble now, anyone would. Our length would help mitigate some of their size advantage but some of our long players like Bol and Okogie aren't guys you'd want to play for long stretches in a championship series.

KD may be 6'11" but can he guard Giannis, Brook Lopez, or Bobby Portis? He's a PF because of what the NBA has become for the most part, taller SF's stretching the floor and covering PF rather than PF's being smaller Centers. He's not going to be guarding most bigger PF's in the league like Anthony Davis or Giannis, which is fine so long as he's efficient enough to force matchup problems that keep teams from going big against us.

Monty tried forcing Milwaukee to match us but it didn't work. You can't always force matchups you want. That's coaching 101. If you don't think Vogel is going to do similar stuff then I don't know what to tell ya. Sometimes though you need to adjust and match your opponent and I don't think we're equipped to handle playing a larger team. That's fine because there aren't many but if we do face them in the playoffs or Ayton isn't able to be counted on, we'll be in trouble.

Eubanks is now a career backup? That's news to me, probably him too. He's been in the league 5 years and did nothing of note until last year on a bad Portland team. He was on two-way deals and was essentially San Antonio's Ish Wainwright until he was included in a Thad Young trade, after which he waived. Then signed another Two-Way in Portland. Last year was his first year without traveling back and forth to the G-League on a bad Portland team. 1 year as backup doesn't make him a career backup. He's had 1 semi-notable year as a backup, which was last year. It's too soon to say he's a career backup given he looked up a fringe NBA player his first 4 years.

 

[Yuma]

I will say, I probably like Eubanks the most on this board. I happened to end up watching a bunch of Portland games last year, and came away thinking I hoped we could pick up Eubanks in the off season. Guy is a great weak side help defender. He uses his size effectively, good shot blocker, good motor. More athleticism than you think just looking at them. I am excited to see him as our back up center.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I will say, I probably like Eubanks the most on this board. I happened to end up watching a bunch of Portland games last year, and came away thinking I hoped we could pick up Eubanks in the off season. Guy is a great weak side help defender. He uses his size effectively, good shot blocker, good motor. More athleticism than you think just looking at them. I am excited to see him as our back up center.

I personally like him more than Jock. He simply brings more to the defense with his athleticism and rim protection. He is actually a legit lob threat as well.

 

[Mainstreet]

Happy 25th Birthday, Deandre Ayton.

Don't listen to fans talk about backup centers on your special day.

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[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

See this post is really confusing. Eubanks is a project? He’s a career backup and a pretty decent one at that.

I think you overestimate other teams size for one and for two, never talk about matchups because posts like this seem to be against the idea that teams should match up to us not the other way around, which Monty liked to do.

The NBA is a complex league, far more complex that dumbing it down to big vs small. You’re also making Middleton out to be a big man when he was only an inch or two taller than both Bridges and book. Now our power forward is 6’11” KD and we suddenly don’t have size to match up with the Bucks today? Huh?

And we create better mismatches against big teams than we did back then because now our wings can create their own shots against slower bigs. Back then when Paul went limp we have book as a shot creator and then dropped off to Payne. So we never had mismatch in our favor with off the dribble against lumbering big.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think the Suns will need more depth at the 4/5 as well.

I've liked Drew Eubanks for years but there is a reason he is not getting paid big dollars. He is a nice backup center but he is a step-down from Jock Landale. However, he will bang inside which is what the Suns need.

Asking Durant to play a lot inside is asking for trouble. The Suns need to keep him healthy.

This is weird “jock is better than drew” fallacy must have arisen from the same place the “jock is a good three point shooter” fallacy originated. Jock fanbois run deep. In virtually no category is Jock better than eubanks (for their career or for last season):

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I will say, I probably like Eubanks the most on this board. I happened to end up watching a bunch of Portland games last year, and came away thinking I hoped we could pick up Eubanks in the off season. Guy is a great weak side help defender. He uses his size effectively, good shot blocker, good motor. More athleticism than you think just looking at them. I am excited to see him as our back up center.

I thought he looked good against us too in terms of physicality and energy.

 

[nashman]

This is weird “jock is better than drew” fallacy must have arisen from the same place the “jock is a good three point shooter” fallacy originated. Jock fanbois run deep. In virtually no category is Jock better than eubanks (for their career or for last season):

Thank you I was thinking wtf… Jock was just ok he’s a few years away from being solid, a bit of a project imo. Eubanks while not a flashy name is legit and has proved it with better numbers all over the place. To think we downgraded is a joke. This team now has some size if we want to run it out there but moreover we have scoring that other teams will have to try and counter which will be tough for nearly every team imo!

 

[Hoop Head]

Thank you I was thinking wtf… Jock was just ok he’s a few years away from being solid, a bit of a project imo. Eubanks while not a flashy name is legit and has proved it with better numbers all over the place. To think we downgraded is a joke. This team now has some size if we want to run it out there but moreover we have scoring that other teams will have to try and counter which will be tough for nearly every team imo!

Eubanks proved it all over the place? He's had 1 decent season in his 5 years in the league. He was given away by San Antonio and waived by Toronto the season before last. He got lucky Portland gave him a few 10 days and kept him.

Drew did play a lot more than Jock, 1584 minutes to 589 for Jock, and seems to be a better rim protector but almost all of their stats are very close. Considering Jock was in his first year in the league and Eubanks has played in 5 seasons, he should be farther along with more disparity in their stats but there wasn't. Beside that though he's never played for a team trying to win anything other than ping pong balls.


When you look at advanced stats that don't take playing time into account, where Drew had 3 times as much as Jock, the differences across the board are negligible.

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[clyde2tw]

From the finals' loss to Bucks, the most I recall was CP3 got shut down by Jrue who also had his way on offense with CP. IMO, Jrue was the pivotal player in that series while Giannis was always their steady force. Giannis, Middleton and Jrue had indeed huge size advantage over CP3, Book and Mikal and Crowder. Now Beal is a much better matchup for Jrue, and KD in the clutch would be better than Mikal and Crowder to match up with GA. I'm not that worried about the Bucks.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Those posts are interesting. I really liked having Jock on our team and was disappointed that we did not sign him. I assumed Jock was the better player but I will readily admit have little knowledge of Eubanks. Eubanks does seem to be a little shorter. Eubanks is on our team now, so I am very happy if he is the better player.

 

[Mainstreet]

The best case scenario is the Suns could have kept Jock Landale and added Drew Eubanks.

I already mentioned I liked Eubanks for years, probably longer than some had him on their radar.

 

[Chaplin]

Those posts are interesting. I really liked having Jock on our team and was disappointed that we did not sign him. I assumed Jock was the better player but I will readily admit have little knowledge of Eubanks. Eubanks does seem to be a little shorter. Eubanks is on our team now, so I am very happy if he is the better player.

I don't know if height is a good gauge between Eubanks and Jock. Jock frequently played smaller than he probably should have. I loved Jock and wished we kept him, but not sure I'd do it at 8m per year he got from Houston.

 

[Phrazbit]

I think they're very close in skill level.

Eubanks is a better defender, Jock is a more versatile scorer and generally more active on that end but Eubanks does make good work of what limited shots he takes.

I think the only obvious take away is that Houston is stupid. I like Jock but that contract is crazy... just like all the other contracts those dolts gave out this summer.

 

[Hoop Head]

I think they're very close in skill level.

Eubanks is a better defender, Jock is a more versatile scorer and generally more active on that end but Eubanks does make good work of what limited shots he takes.

I think the only obvious take away is that Houston is stupid. I like Jock but that contract is crazy... just like all the other contracts those dolts gave out this summer.

It's probably the best contract they gave out all off-season though. Jock is a backup, not a starter, and $8m a year is too rich but only the first year is guaranteed. They can cut him loose at any point and free up some cash. I wouldn't be too surprised if the Suns were planning on something similar with him, since that could have been a decent trade piece.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I don't know if height is a good gauge between Eubanks and Jock. Jock frequently played smaller than he probably should have. I loved Jock and wished we kept him, but not sure I'd do it at 8m per year he got from Houston.

Oh, I agree about the money. I just assumed we would try to sell him on a vet min deal. Gotta believe Eubanks could have gotten more than the minimum elsewhere.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I think they're very close in skill level.

Eubanks is a better defender, Jock is a more versatile scorer and generally more active on that end but Eubanks does make good work of what limited shots he takes.

I think the only obvious take away is that Houston is stupid. I like Jock but that contract is crazy... just like all the other contracts those dolts gave out this summer.

Kinda like in 2010 when we brought in Childress, Hedo, and Warrick. Oh and Hakim Warrick too!

 

[Chaplin]

Oh, I agree about the money. I just assumed we would try to sell him on a vet min deal. Gotta believe Eubanks could have gotten more than the minimum elsewhere.

Who says we didn't? As soon as the Suns got wind that Jock was going to get a larger contract, we immediately went to Plan B.

 

[Yuma]

I think KD would play Middleton better. Middleton is not about creating a lot of space to get his shot off. All he needs is to get you on either hip, and it's going down. KD's length may possibly be a better way to play him.

 

[Yuma]

The blocks, both in regular and advanced stats is huge! Also, while I don't fully understand VORP, I read a .6 difference is also HUGE.

 

[Chaplin]

I think KD would play Middleton better. Middleton is not about creating a lot of space to get his shot off. All he needs is to get you on either hip, and it's going down. KD's length may possibly be a better way to play him.

When you have Giannis, Middleton and Brook Lopez on the floor together, how do you match up? I'm not sure we'd see KD on Middleton. I'd think Book might take that matchup, with Beal on Holiday.

 

[Yuma]

When you have Giannis, Middleton and Brook Lopez on the floor together, how do you match up? I'm not sure we'd see KD on Middleton. I'd think Book might take that matchup, with Beal on Holiday.

I don't know how all the guys play yet. I am guessing Ayton, Eubanks, and then one of the other long guys we just signed. If you buy into the hype, Bol Bol probably plays Giannis one on one and keeps him down into the 20 point range!