10 thoughts - Murray's comeback

[Proximo]

i don't see why everyone's so afraid of the browns - football is football - im not concerned about who we're playing more concerned about our O-line - as far as kyler's concerned start him as soon as he's healthy enough to play - that simple

Me either. I am going to be pissed if he doesn't come back for the Browns game. Quite frankly I think he should be playing this week.

 

[TheCardFan]

Don't understand why people think a QB who hasn't played in a year and hasn't taken all the first team snaps in practice should play.

 

[slanidrac16]

I understand your view completely, Solar, but I guess my point is that I don’t see how he can do both. I mean, if he plays just average, the record will still end up being enough for a top 10 pick, simply because it already is so bad. So if he does in fact trash the draft position, then he must play well.

Having said that, I don’t think his job is in danger unless the Cards have the #1 pick. That was actually my thought 11 or 12, and thus it just missed the cut. It has as much to do with my view on Drake Maye as on Murray, but I just don’t see them starting over with anyone else than potentially Caleb Williams.

If we have the number 1 pick and Kyler IS the guy, the haul we’d get in return for trading that pick could set this organization up for the next 5 years.

 

[Proximo]

Don't understand why people think a QB who hasn't played in a year and hasn't taken all the first team snaps in practice should play.

Because we don't need him to be at his absolute best, we just need him to be better than Dobbs.

 

[Gandhi]

What about the 81 million dead money hit? I don’t see the Cardinals eating that. What am I missing? It’s never talked about here.

Those numbers are not correct, Mark. If they cut him and designate him as a post-June 1 release, their 2024 cap hit would be 48.3 million, and for 2025 it would be 33.2 million.

If they trade him, it would give 46.2 million in dead money on the 2024 cap, but nothing on the 2025 cap. It would also save them more than 35 million in real cash, which Michael Bidwill might appreciate (even though he is not as cheap as his dad.)

Yes, it is a lot of money, but it cannot be stressed enough that the salary cap has changed. It is not like fans had come to know it. The salary cap continues to go up and up, and due to the current TV deal, teams know that the rise will only continue at the same rate. One thing it means it that teams are a lot more comfortable with taking on dead money.

Then you also have to hold it against paying a rookie quarterback. Last year, the #1 pick had a cap number of 7.5 million. In the future years it would be much, much cheaper than keeping Murray.

Obviously there has to be a buyer for them to move Murray, but I have no doubt that someone is willing to pay big money for a 26-year-old potential superstar who already know the league. Look at how many average quarterbacks are in the NFL – none of them with a shot of winning the Super Bowl.

 

[Stout]

If we have the number 1 pick and Kyler IS the guy, the haul we’d get in return for trading that pick could set this organization up for the next 5 years.

Agreed--so long as we don't trade past MHJ land.

 

[Dynomite]

TBH.. I see something more in line with this organizations past experiences. And that is;
Kyler Murray comes back and plays just well enough to increase his trade value. The Cardinals trade him and manage to draft Caleb Williams or Drake Maye.
Murray goes on to play good for another organization and the Cardinals realize their new quarterback was great against college kids, but not so much against grown a** men. IMO thats more in line with this organizations past.

I'm truly at a loss as to how card fans can complain about kylers attitude and than cant wait to bring caleb williams in. Truly baffling stuff.

 

[Garthshort]

I agree with starting him after the Browns, but I can't share your optimism about this season or bringing him back.

Unfortunately I see a very real situation where he plays just well enough to trash our draft position but not well enough to be confident with him as our future starter.

That's what being a Cardinals fan is all about.

 

[HoodieBets]

I'm truly at a loss as to how card fans can complain about kylers attitude and than cant wait to bring caleb williams in. Truly baffling stuff.

Before the start of this year I was 100% on the Caleb Williams wagon. Right now I would take Maye 1st overall. Caleb has not impressed me enough this year and add that to the stuff with his dad and it’s a hard pass.

 

[JosiahLee]

Anyone else concerned that Murray is "healthy" but not playing?

Is he not a veteran QB who has supposedly been at team meetings? He's had months to digest the playbook by now. I'm fine with suffering another game with Dobbs if that's needed - but I'm a little concerned that either Murray was mentally aloof during team meetings or must not be completely healthy/incredibly rusty. I just can't see other franchise QBs in the league willingly sit on the bench while their team is struggling

To the argument "it's a new system" - did we not trade for Dobbs less than a week before we threw him in as a starter? Love him or hate him- I think few people here believe that Dobbs is a better option to start here if Murray is truly 100% healthy.

This is what’s so frustrating about it all. I feel like there’s some conspiracy behind the scenes at this point. Maybe the organization truly is in tank mode and Kyler is doing his best to force them to play him. Knowing he would be healthy at this point perhaps they devised their “plan” to ensure he is “ready” which includes keeping him on PUP as long as possible. Then once he starts practicing do not activate him for the full 3 weeks, then once he’s activated just keep him on the bench a few games. Then eventually start letting him practice with starting WRs, then in week 15 or 16 when we’ve separated ourselves enough from other teams contending for the #1 pick, then we’ll debut him when nothing is actually at stake draft-wise. I could totally be wrong, but a “plan” like this isn’t far fetched in my mind.

 

[Stout]

This is what’s so frustrating about it all. I feel like there’s some conspiracy behind the scenes at this point. Maybe the organization truly is in tank mode and Kyler is doing his best to force them to play him. Knowing he would be healthy at this point perhaps they devised their “plan” to ensure he is “ready” which includes keeping him on PUP as long as possible. Then once he starts practicing do not activate him for the full 3 weeks, then once he’s activated just keep him on the bench a few games. Then eventually start letting him practice with starting WRs, then in week 15 or 16 when we’ve separated ourselves enough from other teams contending for the #1 pick, then we’ll debut him when nothing is actually at stake draft-wise. I could totally be wrong, but a “plan” like this isn’t far fetched in my mind.

Whew, that would be a clown show.

 

[gimpy]

So many conspiracy theories.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Agreed--so long as we don't trade past MHJ land.

I love MHJ as a prospect, but you can miss out on non-QBs if the package is good enough. 80% MHJ isn't close to worth 3 first round picks.

If the Cardinals end up with #1 overall and are offered 3 first round picks and 3 second round picks, I take that trade and draft Keon Coleman who's upside isn't that far off MHJ.

 

[Stout]

I love MHJ as a prospect, but you can miss out on non-QBs if the package is good enough. 80% MHJ isn't close to worth 3 first round picks.

If the Cardinals end up with #1 overall and are offered 3 first round picks and 3 second round picks, I take that trade and draft Keon Coleman who's upside isn't that far off MHJ.

I just don't want to end up with "future picks" or several okay guys that never become stars instead of the A-#1 legit superstar I think MHJ will be from day 1. That would suck. We need a few superstars on this team. You don't win without top-end talent.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I just don't want to end up with "future picks" or several okay guys that never become stars instead of the A-#1 legit superstar I think MHJ will be from day 1. That would suck. We need a few superstars on this team. You don't win without top-end talent.

Eh the Dolphins turned one superstar (Laremy Tunsil) into something like 25 draft picks.

It does matter who you pick, obviously, but that many cracks at the bat are worth it.

 

[kerouac9]

Eh the Dolphins turned one superstar (Laremy Tunsil) into something like 25 draft picks.

It does matter who you pick, obviously, but that many cracks at the bat are worth it.

Very cool but it earned them one loss in the wild card round of the playoffs.

They should raise a banner.

I think falling in love with one prospect is silly, especially right now. People did the same thing with Will Anderson last year; half changed their tune as soon as we traded away from him, and he's shown to be a solid two-way player on a pretty good defense.

Reminds me a lot of the Jameson Williams discourse a few years ago.

There are a ton of extremely good wide receivers in the NFL. Some of them are top 5 draft pick on their rookie contracts with their original team. Many, many more of them are not.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Very cool but it earned them one loss in the wild card round of the playoffs.

They should raise a banner.

Eh I think thats more a function of getting the coaching hire right and having a QB who isn't a top ten player in reality.

I think falling in love with one prospect is silly, especially right now. People did the same thing with Will Anderson last year; half changed their tune as soon as we traded away from him, and he's shown to be a solid two-way player on a pretty good defense.

I agree mostly. If you need a QB, that's about the only time that I think a team should zero in on one player.

Reminds me a lot of the Jameson Williams discourse a few years ago.

There are a ton of extremely good wide receivers in the NFL. Some of them are top 5 draft pick on their rookie contracts with their original team. Many, many more of them are not.

This draft is likely to produce a few good WRs.

 

[kerouac9]

This draft is likely to produce a few good WRs.

I don't think it can be understated that when you look back the past five years or more, every draft has included 4-6 absolute beasts at the WR position. I can't really think of another position like it of late. Maybe running back.

 

[PACardsFan]

Before the start of this year I was 100% on the Caleb Williams wagon. Right now I would take Maye 1st overall. Caleb has not impressed me enough this year and add that to the stuff with his dad and it’s a hard pass.

Have you watched Maye & his Tarheels the last 2 weeks? He hasn’t been able to lead them to victories over 2 garbage teams………Virginia & Georgia Tech. I watched both games from beginning to end. With both games on the line late, Maye couldn’t produce. Neither Williams nor Maye will ever be what Murray already is.