“Style of Offense…”

[82CardsGrad]

With great frustration, I continue to see references to style of offense being why Murray isn’t right for the Cards and why Brissett is. Rather than a long diatribe on the issue of “style of offense,” I got questions:

1). Does anyone REALLY believe there to be a proven winning NFL style of offense that is materially different than what the Cards presently run and where Murray would suddenly be successful, as in putting up more W’s than L’s and being a regular post season presence? If so, please point me to that offense and the QB comp to Murray…

2). Is the current offensive style of the Cards, and the way in which Brissett is playing the QB position, More or Less similar to most, if not all other NFL winning teams this season?
I get other teams may have more talent on offense… but in terms of style and the way the QB operates…

My view is that there isn’t any NFL offensive style proven to be a reliably winning style in the NFL, where Murray can be successful.
That in the NFL, where the talent on defensive front 7’s is so high (except for the Cards of course), QB’s must be able to stand over center, read the defense, make the right pre-snap read(s) if not call the appropriate audible, and then stand in the pocket with pressure all around and deliver the ball to the right receiver, on time.
IMHO, nearly 100% of offenses and QB’s of successful teams do this far more routinely than Murray has ever done. As such, it’s not about “offensive style,” as much as it is about Murray himself.

But tell me I’m wrong…

 

[oaken1]

With great frustration, I continue to see references to style of offense being why Murray isn’t right for the Cards and why Brissett is. Rather than a long diatribe on the issue of “style of offense,” I got questions:

1). Does anyone REALLY believe there to be a proven winning NFL style of offense that is materially different than what the Cards presently run and where Murray would suddenly be successful, as in putting up more W’s than L’s and being a regular post season presence? If so, please point me to that offense and the QB comp to Murray…

2). Is the current offensive style of the Cards, and the way in which Brissett is playing the QB position, More or Less similar to most, if not all other NFL winning teams this season?
I get other teams may have more talent on offense… but in terms of style and the way the QB operates…

My view is that there isn’t any NFL offensive style proven to be a reliably winning style in the NFL, where Murray can be successful.
That in the NFL, where the talent on defensive front 7’s is so high (except for the Cards of course), QB’s must be able to stand over center, read the defense, make the right pre-snap read(s) if not call the appropriate audible, and then stand in the pocket with pressure all around and deliver the ball to the right receiver, on time.
IMHO, nearly 100% of offenses and QB’s of successful teams do this far more routinely than Murray has ever done. As such, it’s not about “offensive style,” as much as it is about Murray himself.

But tell me I’m wrong…

Nah you ain't wrong.
Murray has only shown success when he was allowed to go off schedule and run all around the backfield until he could leave it to one of the best jump ball receivers to ever play the game.

But don't make that public knowledge or nobody will ever trade for him.

 

[Garthshort]

You might want to take into consideration the absence of a running game. It's surprising that we are able to put up 400/300+ yards of offense during the past two weeks, without a threat of running the ball. I would like to see IF KM can emulate/duplicate Jacoby's numbers, knowing that we probably can't win unless a runner drops from the sky.

 

[Harry]

Murray was likely chosen because he fit Kingsbury’s style of offense. The Cards assumed Murray’s athleticism would compensate for his physical limitations. In college he ran more of a Spread offense-Air-Raid hybrid. That didn’t work in the NFL and has largely been abandoned in favor of modified West Coast offenses. I still think some guru will think with the right components he can modify Murray’s play and better use his skills.

 

[82CardsGrad]

You might want to take into consideration the absence of a running game. It's surprising that we are able to put up 400/300+ yards of offense during the past two weeks, without a threat of running the ball. I would like to see IF KM can emulate/duplicate Jacoby's numbers, knowing that we probably can't win unless a runner drops from the sky.

I mean… don’t you think we’ve seen Kyler enough after 7+ seasons to be able make this judgment?

 

[602 Native]

Imagine thinking great coaches shoe horn a QB into an offense instead of tailoring an offense to your QBs skills.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Murray was likely chosen because he fit Kingsbury’s style of offense. The Cards assumed Murray’s athleticism would compensate for his physical limitations. In college he ran more of a Spread offense-Air-Raid hybrid. That didn’t work in the NFL and has largely been abandoned in favor of modified West Coast offenses. I still think some guru will think with the right components he can modify Murray’s play and better use his skills.

Oh, I have no doubt whatsoever, there are several coaches/coordinators who see Murray’s freakish physical tools and think they can find the right magic potion to find success… but… I think we know it’s fool’s gold and a failed experiment by now, no?

 

[82CardsGrad]

Imagine thinking great coaches shoe horn a QB into an offense instead of tailoring an offense to your QBs skills.

Isn’t that what Kliff did? What am I missing??

 

[602 Native]

Isn’t that what Kliff did? What am I missing??

And how is K2 doing these days?

 

[82CardsGrad]

And how is K2 doing these days?

That’s my point. The one “style” everyone thought was tailor-made for Murray, was proven to be a fraud offense by BOTH the coordinator and the QB.
My point is the style of QB play required by the NFL is simply one Murray is incapable of producing, period. No matter the spin you and others attempt to put on this issue. No matter all the excuses aimed at deflecting from this fundamental reality. The facts are crystal clear. To win in the NFL, the QB play needs to look like the play we’ve seen the past two weeks from Brissett, which resembles the type of QB play that has long been tied to success and that, even to this day, remains 100% essential in order to win in the NFL.

 

[slanidrac16]

Murray was likely chosen because he fit Kingsbury’s style of offense. The Cards assumed Murray’s athleticism would compensate for his physical limitations. In college he ran more of a Spread offense-Air-Raid hybrid. That didn’t work in the NFL and has largely been abandoned in favor of modified West Coast offenses. I still think some guru will think with the right components he can modify Murray’s play and better use his skills.

This. If we or anybody would try to implement the” air raid” system in the NFL, Murray would last two weeks before getting hurt.
As a poster mentioned above, today’s front 7’s are too big and fast for Murray. His height limits him and the league has figured him out.
Now if only the Cardinals could see it.

 

[slanidrac16]

And how is K2 doing these days?

I said it would be a matter of time when Kingsbury would get his Qb hurt.

 

[slanidrac16]

That’s my point. The one “style” everyone thought was tailor-made for Murray, was proven to be a fraud offense by BOTH the coordinator and the QB.
My point is the style of QB play required by the NFL is simply one Murray is incapable of producing, period. No matter the spin you and others attempt to put on this issue. No matter all the excuses aimed at deflecting from this fundamental reality. The facts are crystal clear. To win in the NFL, the QB play needs to look like the play we’ve seen the past two weeks from Brissett, which resembles the type of QB play that has long been tied to success and that, even to this day, remains 100% essential in order to win in the NFL.

Agree. And that’s why Gannon and Petzing want a dominant running offense. They see the limitations but they can’t say it out loud.

 

[Mulli]

Multiple offenses from this style of offense. Definitely offensive.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I fully expect Murray to go somewhere else and be successful at least in spurts.

 

[Mulli]

Agree. And that’s why Gannon and Petzing want a dominant running offense. They see the limitations but they can’t say it out loud.

They should consider building a good offensive line

 

[Brian in Mesa]

I fully expect Murray to go somewhere else and be successful at least in spurts.

So, similar to his time here then. Makes sense.

 

[602 Native]

They should consider building a good offensive line

Not needed when you want your QB to get hit every other play.

 

[HairZach]

I fully expect Murray to go somewhere else and be successful at least in spurts.

"successful in spurts" perfectly describes Kyler's career here.

 

[Big D]

It took all of a half of football in Indianapolis for it to become crystal clear what this team has been missing out of it’s QB play over these last couple seasons.

If you can’t see it, and quite frankly if it isn’t blatantly obvious to you at this point, I feel like you are choosing not to see it or just don’t want to see it.

It’s really that simple. So scheme, numbers, intangibles, etc. it’s really not even that deep. Correct me if I’m wrong but I think that is what the OP is getting at here.

 

[82CardsGrad]

It took all of a half of football in Indianapolis for it to become crystal clear what this team has been missing out of it’s QB play over these last couple seasons.

If you can’t see it, and quite frankly if it isn’t blatantly obvious to you at this point, I feel like you are choosing not to see it or just don’t want to see it.

It’s really that simple. So scheme, numbers, intangibles, etc. it’s really not even that deep. Correct me if I’m wrong but I think that is what the OP is getting at here.

As always… you feel me D!

 

[PACardsFan]

You might want to take into consideration the absence of a running game. It's surprising that we are able to put up 400/300+ yards of offense during the past two weeks, without a threat of running the ball. I would like to see IF KM can emulate/duplicate Jacoby's numbers, knowing that we probably can't win unless a runner drops from the sky.

In a recent interview, Benson said that he would be back soon. Unfortunately, in Cardinal lingo, that could mean week 13 lol. And is there any evidence that Trey is any better than our current group of 4th string RB’s? Maybe, maybe not. Someone else stated that we should trade Jonah Williams. Problem is he’s been awful, especially yesterday, so I don’t think he’s worth a warm bucket of spit. But, I would expect there will be changes on that OL against Dallas. Play Beachum or give that kid Frye some reps.

 

[Dback Jon]

Isn’t that what Kliff did? What am I missing??

Kingsbury's main issue was he was unprepared to be a Head Coach, and hampered by a drunken GM. The offense did put up great numbers with Murray.

 

[Dback Jon]

I fully expect Murray to go somewhere else and be successful at least in spurts.

The Daniel Jones effect?

 

[HairZach]

Kingsbury's main issue was he was unprepared to be a Head Coach, and hampered by a drunken GM. The offense did put up great numbers with Murray.

It did until the blueprint to beat it was circulated around the league. Murray played awful in 2022, from game 1 until the ACL tear. That system was molded perfectly to Murray's strengths, but it was completely broken by the end because Murray has a very limited skill set. The idea behind giving Murray a new system was that he would evolve as a player, learn to do new things. There was a lot of hype about the new offensive coaching staff challenging Murray, coaching him up. The fan narrative was that Kliff held back Murray's development by only making him do things he was good at.

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If Murray is incapable of broadening what he is good at, he is a 20 TD - 10 INT type of QB.