OT: Kyler Murray Debacle Thread

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Cheesebeef

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No. Last year we did not have legitimate WR1 or WR2s, and Dorch is a poor man's WR3.

WE HAD THE BEST TE IN THE LEAGUE AND AN 880 YARD WR. That is the equivalent of #1 and #2 passing options, PLUS a dominant running game. Stop just IGNORING FACTS.

And despite that Statistically Murray was above average last year. 9th best QBR in the league.

In ONE stat that you desperately cling to. He was also decidedly mid at 14th in yards per game, 13th in passing TDs, 20th in YPA. In other words MID.

And when it counted most… BAD.

Like I said Cheese, if you think K1 is in a position to be successful, and all we need to do to have a successful passing game is change QBs, I don’t think that’s necessarily unreasonable.

That’s not what I said and now that you’ve lied and just made up a fake argument about what I’ve said, im done with the convo.
 

602 Native

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I think we had to fix the defense first, and MO tried to do that. It's seems to have worked to some degree.

I know were were/are still sitting on some cap space though.

But if MO makes a big effort to improve the offense this upcoming offseason, I think I could live with that plan.
This is not how great teams are built.

‘Hey I got an idea. Let’s not improve one side of the ball and focus on the other on our way to fixing everything.’
 

BritCard

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You absolutely trade a 30th percentile QB and a 90th percentile TE for a 80th percentile QB.

That's a no brainer. I love Trey but that would be insane value.
 
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BritCard

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Of course I have BritCard.

But what I said in my original post is that I honestly think right now there's too much dysfunction around our QB1 to objectively evaluate his performance.

I'm saying there's a correlation between a passer's performance and:

1. A team's WR1 performance
2. A team's ability to run the ball
3. A team's ability to generate YAC
4. A WR corps' ability to stretch the field
5. A team's ability to pass-block.
6. A team's ability to scheme an effective passing game

You say were very good at #5. Eh.

I just watched every pass play from the SEA game again. The pass protection was not good. It wasn't terrible, but SEA consistently collapsed the pocket with just four, and harried K1 most of the night.

Now, SEA is a very good, maybe great, defense. And, our pass blocking was pretty good vs. CAR I thought, and not bad vs. SF. I agree our line is better at that phase of the game. But it's still nothing to write home about. vs. NO for example, there were way too many free runners at Murray.

And then of course, bad run game, bad WR1, questionable OC, no deep threat, no YAC generally (Dortch did have some on the two TD drives vs. SEA surprisingly).

So no. No I'm not ready to give up on Murray because of ADoT or air yards, or YPC.

I'm not giving up on him until we upgrade the Oline and WR room at least a little (and maybe the OC). Or at least until those two groups start playing better than they are now.

The reason there is always dysfunction around Kyler is that he is the cause of the dysfunction.
 

oaken1

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You absolutely trade a 30th percentile QB and a 10th percentile TE for a 80th percentile QB.

That's a no brainer. I love Trey but that would be insane value.
Gotta admit though..... I'd kinda hate it.
I have a soft spot for home grown stars.... wanna keeper forever.
 

BritCard

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Had his X receiver wiiiiiide open and MHJ on a drag. But throw it to a guy who doesn’t ever play on a go route

Look at the receiver at the top too. I believe it's Higgens in single coverage against a CB with a massive cushion.

A good QB throws immediately to Higgens and says "Go stiff arm that CB into the dirt".

A great QB audible for Higgens to run a go and throws it up for him to body the CB in the EZ.
 

BritCard

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Gotta admit though..... I'd kinda hate it.
I have a soft spot for home grown stars.... wanna keeper forever.

I'd be disappointed to lose Trey for sure, but that would soon dissipate when you see an offense with an actual quality QB.
 

Crimson Warrior

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WE HAD THE BEST TE IN THE LEAGUE AND AN 880 YARD WR. That is the equivalent of #1 and #2 passing options, PLUS a dominant running game. Stop just IGNORING FACTS.



In ONE stat that you desperately cling to. He was also decidedly mid at 14th in yards per game, 13th in passing TDs, 20th in YPA. In other words MID.

And when it counted most… BAD.



That’s not what I said and now that you’ve lied and just made up a fake argument about what I’ve said, im done with the convo.

Not that you care one way or the other, but, putting you back on ignore. Bye! :)
 

WeBlitz

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I'd be disappointed to lose Trey for sure, but that would soon dissipate when you see an offense with an actual quality QB.
You trade everyone but McBride, Paris, or Marvin. Tip nor Higgins aren’t going to magically turn into Antonio Gates or Greg Olsen with an upgraded QB. I love Burrow, but we never seen him play without elite weapons compared to the likes of Herbert, Lamar, or Allen. Let us not be the first ones to start.
 

WeBlitz

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Look at the receiver at the top too. I believe it's Higgens in single coverage against a CB with a massive cushion.

A good QB throws immediately to Higgens and says "Go stiff arm that CB into the dirt".

A great QB audible for Higgens to run a go and throws it up for him to body the CB in the EZ.
Marvin is the only one that’s realistically open. Higgins half-assed the hell out of his route.
 

GeorgiaCard88

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Not that you care one way or the other, but, putting you back on ignore. Bye! :)
can’t be slamming you with capslock

But i do agree with him and in year 7 - even if we are wrong - it’s time for us to make a change to see if we can be better. good -not great- quarterback play (like Murray seems to be able to generate for 5-10 minutes a game this year) elevates everything around it. The problem is Murray is awful half the game which is demoralizing, deflating, and will perpetually keep us at best a middling team with no shot of a deep run.

Crimson why don’t you tell us post injury - what have you seen from Kyler that gives you hope he is still a great quarterback? Not a “we haven’t given him a shot with the right circumstance” - but like what have you seen that inspires that belief in him?
 

BritCard

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This is one of my biggest issues with Kyler.

He has plenty of time in the pocket but he's decided pre snap that he's throwing this to Trey. Even though there is a safety parked on his route. No reads, just stares down Trey the whole way. He's very lucky not to get picked here.

Trey is the worst of all options. Mike is open. Dortch is open. Even the pass to MHJ would have better odds.

Why decide Trey is the guy? Who looks at this defense and knowing the route Trey is running thinks "That's the man to go to".

This is why there's no excuses for Kyler. This is all him.

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DVontel

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You guys are insane the more I think about it.

Burrow & McBride would aim to be our Mahomes/Kelce. You throw everything else outside of McBride for Burrow.

And actually, as great as Burrow is, it’s not like his value is at its best. Dude’s durability is to be heavily questioned. We could get away with it, easily.
 

Stout

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You pointing at the top performing QB in the league as an example of how all QBs should perform is not very compelling I'm afraid.

Clutch plays:

1. Led the game tying drive vs. SEA? Made all the plays necessary to get us back to even? That's at least a little clutch?

2. Put the biscuit in the basket at the end of the SF game. If Zay just makes a normal catch, we're 3-1 right now. That was a clutch throw if there ever was one.
Quite the opposite. You claim he has greatness in him. Well, he damn well better be comparable to the top QBs in the league, wouldn't you agree?

He doesn't have greatness in him. That is glaringly obvious. He doesn't have consistency in him. He has a dwindling amount of highs, plenty of lows, and a lot of bang average. That's it. That's who KM is.
 

Crimson Warrior

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yeah he and I have been sparring since 2002 if you can believe it man. But anyway...

So like a good tactician, you're drawing me out so the flanks my argument are exposed, well done! haha :)

So principally, I would point to last year's 1st game against the Rams, where in my heart of hearts I believe on that day K1 was the best QB on the planet. The game that got his kit in the HOF.

Then I'd offer 2024's games vs. MIA, NYJ and SF where is his passer rating was 116+. All bad teams though, I understand.

Finally I'd mention the first 58 minutes of the 2024 game vs. MIN, where there weren't a lot of deep shots, but on the road he and McBride (and DP too I guess) were carving up the MIN defense pretty good. The MIN defense overwhelmed him/us in the last two minutes of course.

Georgia I'll leave it right there to get your thoughts, but let me add I understand that for many, this in not nearly enough to continue to stay on the K1 bandwagon. That many feel Kyler is way to inconsistent, and even worse, that in clutch in 2024, he was terrible (which, unfortunately is true, but I hope he can fix that).
 
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Crimson Warrior

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Quite the opposite. You claim he has greatness in him. Well, he damn well better be comparable to the top QBs in the league, wouldn't you agree?

He doesn't have greatness in him. That is glaringly obvious. He doesn't have consistency in him. He has a dwindling amount of highs, plenty of lows, and a lot of bang average. That's it. That's who KM is.

Stout, man, the only thing I'm trying to say this week is that the way other guys around him are performing (including DP), that it's very challenging to accurately assess how well he's playing, and that he's not really in a position to be successful.

If you disagree, that's fine, then let's just move on to the TEN game.
 

BritCard

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You guys are insane the more I think about it.

Burrow & McBride would aim to be our Mahomes/Kelce. You throw everything else outside of McBride for Burrow.

And actually, as great as Burrow is, it’s not like his value is at its best. Dude’s durability is to be heavily questioned. We could get away with it, easily.

It's much easier to find a McBride in the draft than a Burrow
 

BritCard

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Why? I just don't get it.

I'm sure the color guy said "there's nobody open downfield".

Literally the play before this Kyler throws to Mike running the same route and gets a DPI with less separation that he has here.

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