GeorgiaCard88
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Except you know- has won playoff games? When has Kyler been able to say that?
OT: Kyler Murray Debacle Thread
- Thread starter Weenus O'Baggins
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kyler murray will play the best game of his life against the titans - because this thread
602 Native
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No it’s called projecting your terrible view point on to people who actually get paid to make football decisions. Despite what many believe here guys like Justin Fields who can barely complete passes in the NFL is still a starting QB.
K1 by comparison would be a prize compared to that dude. The problem is if the Cards are ready to move teams are going to low ball them on any trade.
WisconsinCard
Herfin BIg Time
Who said anything about K1? I was talking about what you said about people posting "feelings".
You know what Cheese? I've been thinking about it, and I'm not ready to concede that K1 cannot be great for us. Here's why:
1. The consensus on the board is that our o-line is below average (despite random charts showing that our pass is best in the league or whatever). Maybe our pass protection is average, but overall the line is below average. Everyone agrees.
2. The consensus is that our WR1 has performed below average through four games this year. Not really open for debate.
3. That our OC is effective is questionable. This is not just from the board, but outside sources as well.
4. If not for Murray's running we we would probably be last in the league in rushing.
5. Kyler appropriately leverages the one truly good offensive asset we have BPT.
Now I'm definitely not saying Murray is playing great.
But given the above, how can we effectively and objectively evaluate Murray's 2025 performance?
I'm really trying to be reasonable here. But how? Bad oline. Bad WR1. Bad running game. And questionable OC? What QB would not struggle under those circumstances Cheese? Seriously man?
If you want to point to his intangibles, okay, fine. That's fair. I'm not crazy about how he carries himself during games, but keep in mind we see about three hours of his demeanor out of 168 hours every week. We don't really know what his relationships are like with the other players.
And here's another thing. Like 602 posted, league wide, offensive production is down, like significantly.
So given all of these data points, I personally do not think it's fair to say definitively that Murray is not the answer.
I'm not saying he is the answer.
But what I'm am saying is that, to give him a fair shake, we need to upgrade the talent around him at least a little. At least a little Cheese.
Join me on the K1 bandwagon man. Come on. It's fun!
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I don’t think there’s a GM out there who thinks that Kyler can be a top eight QB but I’m sure there are guys who look at Baker/Darnold/Geno/Dimes and say Kyler’s highs have been greater than any of theirs—why not us?
Pittsburgh
Jets
Cleveland
Minny (for Russ)
Naw’lins
Maybe Carolina
Maybe Houston?
Sure ruin my weekend by suggesting we might be able to trade Kyler to Minnesota knowing full well we'd have to take McCarthy back in trade.
Atlanta has liked kyler for a few years allegedly and with Penix' recent struggles they'd possibly also be on the list of teams who might take him
602 Native
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I don’t think there’s a GM out there who thinks that Kyler can be a top eight QB but I’m sure there are guys who look at Baker/Darnold/Geno/Dimes and say Kyler’s highs have been greater than any of theirs—why not us?
Pittsburgh
Jets
Cleveland
Minny (for Russ)
Naw’lins
Maybe Carolina
Maybe Houston?
There are elements of a Stroud/Kyler trade that make sense. Kyler goes back to Texans. Stroud gets Marv and Marv gets Stroud. Both get a fresh start. Stroud gets a better OL. Kyler gets an OL that let's him run more.
Never happen though.
You know what Cheese? I've been thinking about it, and I'm not ready to concede that K1 cannot be great for us. Here's why:
1. The consensus on the board is that our o-line is below average (despite random charts showing that our pass is best in the league or whatever). Maybe our pass protection is average, but overall the line is below average. Everyone agrees.
2. The consensus is that our WR1 has performed below average through four games this year. Not really open for debate.
3. That our OC is effective is questionable. This is not just from the board, but outside sources as well.
4. If not for Murray's running we we would probably be last in the league in rushing.
5. Kyler appropriately leverages the one truly good offensive asset we have BPT.
Now I'm definitely not saying Murray is playing great.
But given the above, how can we effectively and objectively evaluate Murray's 2025 performance?
I'm really trying to be reasonable here. But how? Bad oline. Bad WR1. Bad running game. And questionable OC? What QB would not struggle under those circumstances Cheese? Seriously man?
If you want to point to his intangibles, okay, fine. That's fair. I'm not crazy about how he carries himself during games, but keep in mind we see about three hours of his demeanor out of 168 hours every week. We don't really know what his relationships are like with the other players.
And here's another thing. Like 602 posted, league wide, offensive production is down, like significantly.
So given all of these data points, I personally do not think it's fair to say definitively that Murray is not the answer.
I'm not saying he is the answer.
But what I'm am saying is that, to give him a fair shake, we need to upgrade the talent around him at least a little. At least a little Cheese.
Join me on the K1 bandwagon man. Come on. It's fun!
The O line has been very good in pass pro. A posted a chart yesterday that showed Kyler kept clean at the 5th best rate in the league but his EPA was well below where it should be.
I just want Kyler to make good passes to receivers over 10 yards away when available and he can't. The rest is irrelevant.
If he was doing that and the rest sucked I'd be complaining about that, but he's been a truly awful as a passer.
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You and I have different definitions of fun.You know what Cheese? I've been thinking about it, and I'm not ready to concede that K1 cannot be great for us. Here's why:
1. The consensus on the board is that our o-line is below average (despite random charts showing that our pass is best in the league or whatever). Maybe our pass protection is average, but overall the line is below average. Everyone agrees.
2. The consensus is that our WR1 has performed below average through four games this year. Not really open for debate.
3. That our OC is effective is questionable. This is not just from the board, but outside sources as well.
4. If not for Murray's running we we would probably be last in the league in rushing.
5. Kyler appropriately leverages the one truly good offensive asset we have BPT.
Now I'm definitely not saying Murray is playing great.
But given the above, how can we effectively and objectively evaluate Murray's 2025 performance?
I'm really trying to be reasonable here. But how? Bad oline. Bad WR1. Bad running game. And questionable OC? What QB would not struggle under those circumstances Cheese? Seriously man?
If you want to point to his intangibles, okay, fine. That's fair. I'm not crazy about how he carries himself during games, but keep in mind we see about three hours of his demeanor out of 168 hours every week. We don't really know what his relationships are like with the other players.
And here's another thing. Like 602 posted, league wide, offensive production is down, like significantly.
So given all of these data points, I personally do not think it's fair to say definitively that Murray is not the answer.
I'm not saying he is the answer.
But what I'm am saying is that, to give him a fair shake, we need to upgrade the talent around him at least a little. At least a little Cheese.
Join me on the K1 bandwagon man. Come on. It's fun!
WisconsinCard
Herfin BIg Time
K1 is going to be your QB1 through at least the end of the 2026 season BritCard.
You can type until your blue in the face but nothing is going to change that.
And when MO upgrades the o-line and WR room this offseason, I predict that (magically) we'll see a dramatic uptick in Murray's performance.
Just like in 2021, when we had a decent o-line through the first seven or eights game (Then Rodney Hudson got hurt), and when Kyler had a slightly above-average NFL roster around him.
What is irrelevant is everything besides the above.
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WE HAD A GOOD OFFENSIVE LINE, a KILLER RUSHING ATTACK LAST YEAR AND HE MELTED DOWN REGARDLESS.
He had a good offensive mind with Kingsbury (a guy who won HUGE in his first year with an AWFUL franchise and a rookie QB and now even Marcus Mariotta last week), always got Kyler off to a hot start of the season and then EVERY SEASON, KYLER MELTED DOWN REGARDLESS.
And despite whatever you want to say, everyone’s eyes but yours and Kyler’s Stans see our o-line can’t run block, but they ARE actually able to pass block and Kyler is STILL amongst the worst passers in the league, leading an atrocious passing game where he’s scared to push the ball down field. Those aren’t feelings… those are facts found in his air rate, his yards per attempt and his absolutely pathetic yards per game. Is it true passing yards are down around the league? Yup… does that mean Kyler should be almost dead last amongst starters in all those stats ? NO.
you’ve been coming up with new excuse while excusing every stat that shows who he is for 7 years and even if he got ANOTHER OC and a better protection and was beyond mid for an eighth straight year you’d STILL EXCUSE him.
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AsUpRoDiGy
Magnanimous
Just wait till next year... he's going to be amazing!
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I agree, and then we should move on. Enough is enough.
You're making the exact same excuses made every single year. No, it won't make a difference. Kyler has one of the lowest pressure rates in the league and from it has generated one of the lowest YPAs.
It's nothing to do with the O line. Having watched most of the A22 for every game and he's clean a lot.
The O line nonsense is one of the saddest, most desperate excuses. All the stats and analytics say it's good. The tape shows it's good.
But even if it wasn't why is Darnold so much better with a far worse interior?
But even if it wasn't why is Darnold so much better with a far worse interior?
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krazy2k
Hall of Famer
I can assure you that Cowboys fans would be thrilled with that swap - until they see KM in action. I think Dak would be a slight improvement over KM in AZ, but KM would not be an upgrade for the Cowboys. Both quarterbacks have underachieved during their respective careers - and that is not going to change. Both teams will be extremely fortunate to win 7 or 8 games this year.
Bad WR1. Bad running game. Bad OC. Bad Oline (overall).
I'll concede the pass blocking might be average, but how does the
1. Passing game scheme,
2. poor WR1 performance,
3. no threat of a rushing attack
4. lack of a legitimate deep threat WR
affect the passing games performance? Some? a lot?
Yes Cheese. I'm sitting here in front of god and everybody and saying that Murray is not in a fair situation right now.
If you think he's in an environment where he can be objectively evaluated, fine. We'll agree to disagree.
P.S. - of course your right about the clutch late season thing, but we haven't even gotten to that point yet. And anyway, K1 has made a few clutch plays this year already. So maybe, just maybe, that's starting to turn around some.
I sincerely hope you're otherwise well today, and having a nice weekend, despite the unappetizing prospect of at least 30 more games with K1 as your QB1.
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
We have to give him one more year before we decide
Bad WR1. Bad running game. Bad OC. Bad Oline (overall).
I'll concede the pass blocking might be average, but how does the
1. Passing game scheme,
2. poor WR1 performance,
3. no threat of a rushing attack
4. lack of a legitimate deep threat WR
affect the passing games performance? Some? a lot?
Yes Cheese. I'm sitting here in front of god and everybody and saying that Murray is not in a fair situation right now.
If you think he's in an environment where he can be objectively evaluated, fine. We'll agree to disagree.
P.S. - of course your right about the clutch late season thing, but we haven't even gotten to that point yet. And anyway, K1 has made a few clutch plays this year already. So maybe, just maybe, that's starting to turn around some.
I sincerely hope you're otherwise well today, and having a nice weekend, despite the unappetizing prospect of at least 30 more games with K1 as your QB1.
The QBs that had all these things in their career you can count on your fingers.
If he needs all these things he sucks. Good QBs succeed without these things. Josh Allen has Khalil Shakir, a very mediocre Keon Coleman and Mack Hollins.
The constant excuse making every year is tedious.
PS what Clutch plays has Kyler made? Two games we led comfortably the whole game and the other two were piss poor and never led.
It's only fair. A new OC, new WRs and new O line will take time to gel and learn the scheme.
602 Native
ASFN Addict
Our Oline hasn’t been good since I’ve been a Cards fan.
This Oline is fine talk is absolutely rubbish and we have to suspend reality to think so.
DVontel
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The interior is a different story, but I don’t remember our OTs being absolute liabilities in pass-pro during the Kyler era.
It is a lot of the same excuses every year BritCard. You're right.
And I think it perhaps strains credibility to say our franchise has failed to put sufficient talent around him during the majority of his career here. Nevertheless, I believe that to be the case. I think I'm being intellectually honest when I say that.
Not 2019. And not 2022 to present. Primarily, primarily, because of the lack of a true WR1. If you think I'm wrong, okay, that's fine.
2024 was close. We had a fine rushing attack, BPT, oline was playing better etc. And, Murray wasn't bad. The stats bear that out.
Also, I'll concede the pass blocking this year might be average, but won't you agree that, without the threat of a running game, the defense can shift additional resources to pass defense? And also that MHJ is not nearly performing like a true WR1?
And what about a deep threat? Or a WR that can get us some YAC?
Britcard... I'm honestly trying to be objective man. I know it's the same excuses year after year, but I honestly don't think K1 is in a position to succeed right now. If you do, fine, we'll agree to disagree.
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