OT: Kyler Murray Debacle Thread

[602 Native]

I brought actually facts and figures to the discussion. You guys have brought thoughts and feelings

It’s all they ever bring

 

[Stout]

I think there have been small incremental moves in the direction but I am also one who thinks Kyler is soft and it feels unlikely much will change with regards to outcome. Hopefully I’m wrong but history is largely on our side.

As his daddy is still his QB guru, he isn't trying to make the big changes.

 

[kerouac9]

are you talking records with no context again? you need to get in politics man

If there’s an objective measure that Monti is doing a good job, I’m open to it. You are what your record says you are.

Maybe this is a young team coming together. Let’s wipe away Monti’s first season and a half and look at the record of MOJG over the past 10 games.

5-5. Good job.

I still think this is a sub 200 page thread. 3 pages about baseball should be scraped.

This is fair.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

If there’s an objective measure that Monti is doing a good job, I’m open to it. You are what your record says you are.

MO has been given all the runway he could ask for and more. This is the year he has to pay us off.

Baring catastrophic injuries, this team better have a winning record or it's going to be an issue.

 

[kerouac9]

MO has been given all the runway he could ask for and more. This is the year he has to pay us off.

Baring catastrophic injuries, this team better have a winning record or it's going to be an issue.

I think Gannon and Ossenfort will be under scrutiny it they don’t win ten or more games, tbh. 9-8 shouldn’t relieve any pressure.

 

[oaken1]

I think Gannon and Ossenfort will be under scrutiny it they don’t win ten or more games, tbh. 9-8 shouldn’t relieve any pressure.

Agree. 9-8 probably keeps their jobs but nobody should be happy about it.
Good thing we are gonna win 12

 

[kerouac9]

Agree. 9-8 probably keeps their jobs but nobody should be happy about it.
Good thing we are gonna win 12

Hard for me to imagine anyone losing their jobs after this season. This group has too much credibility IMO.

Even if they go 4-13 again I think everyone comes back.

 

[PACardsFan]

Or Kyler just isn't good at the deep ball now. That's pretty hard to argue. Even when he didn't have great WRs, he was still pretty money at throwing the deep ball in the old days. No longer.

He was great with the deep ball when he had Kirk (2019, 2020) & DHop (2020, 2021). And I would put them in the “great WR” category. He was even really good throwing deep to Fitz. And even though AJ Green was washed by the end of 2021, Kyler was really good throwing deep to him for awhile. Once DHop got hurt against GB in the infamous 8th game of 2021, DHop was never the same. By 2022, DHop was suspended, AJ was thoroughly washed, Kirk & Fitz were gone, and Marquise Brown couldn’t catch a contested pass if his life depended on it. So, my point is that Kyler was successful with the deep ball when he had the WR’s to throw deep to.

Where does that leave us this year? Hard to say. Even though MHJ had a good rookie season, no one should argue the fact that the Cardinals expected more in year 1. I’m still confident that he’ll be a great NFL WR, but he underwhelmed with contested throws all last year & was the single biggest reason that we fell just short of making the playoffs. When your WR1 only comes down with 52% of the passes thrown his way, it’s tough to beat the good teams on the schedule. I expect improvement from Marvin this year & hoping it’s significant improvement. Because this team cannot get to where it wants to get without that improvement.

 

[Chopper0080]

Kyler was recently on Arizona Sports and said he has no issues with accuracy downfield, when over the last 3 years he's been the worst in the league. This is not a man who looks in the mirror much.

This caught my attention as well and it has reinforced my feelings of a lack of self awareness and self scouting.

 

[Chopper0080]

Possible explanations:

1. K1 running the plays Petzing called.

2. WR's not being open downfield

3. K1 having zero faith that MHJ/Dortch/Wilson can make a contested catch.

4. McBride paying Murray off 82% of the time K1 threw him the ball.

All more likely that "Kyler Murray is afraid the throw the ball down the field", which is ridiculous.

1- most plays have a deep option available.

2- dude throws contested passes consistently. Why would this be different.

3- if true, soft mindset. Get over it.

4- agree it is much easier to just throw to McBride.

 

[Chopper0080]

Agr

Hard for me to imagine anyone losing their jobs after this season. This group has too much credibility IMO.

Even if they go 4-13 again I think everyone comes back.

Agree with this. If anyone goes it is likely Petzing.

 

[Chopper0080]

He was great with the deep ball when he had Kirk (2019, 2020) & DHop (2020, 2021). And I would put them in the “great WR” category. He was even really good throwing deep to Fitz. And even though AJ Green was washed by the end of 2021, Kyler was really good throwing deep to him for awhile. Once DHop got hurt against GB in the infamous 8th game of 2021, DHop was never the same. By 2022, DHop was suspended, AJ was thoroughly washed, Kirk & Fitz were gone, and Marquise Brown couldn’t catch a contested pass if his life depended on it. So, my point is that Kyler was successful with the deep ball when he had the WR’s to throw deep to.

Where does that leave us this year? Hard to say. Even though MHJ had a good rookie season, no one should argue the fact that the Cardinals expected more in year 1. I’m still confident that he’ll be a great NFL WR, but he underwhelmed with contested throws all last year & was the single biggest reason that we fell just short of making the playoffs. When your WR1 only comes down with 52% of the passes thrown his way, it’s tough to beat the good teams on the schedule. I expect improvement from Marvin this year & hoping it’s significant improvement. Because this team cannot get to where it wants to get without that improvement.

Generally speaking, to throw a good deep ball you have to hang in the pocket, step into the throw, and be aggressive. Kyler doesn’t really do any of these things anymore.

 

[602 Native]

This caught my attention as well and it has reinforced my feelings of a lack of self awareness and self scouting.

More feelings and thoughts

 

[DaHilg]

Generally speaking, to throw a good deep ball you have to hang in the pocket, step into the throw, and be aggressive. Kyler doesn’t really do any of these things anymore.

But do you? Hasn’t been the case for Lamar, Jalen and Seattle RW3. All 3 def not pocket passes and throw deep balls fairly well (well Jalen sucks but he has the beast that is AJ Brown to grab those deep balls anywhere in his vicinity and contested).

Playing to a QBs strengths is what all 3 of those teams did rather than try to make them pocket passers. Still for the life of me don’t understand why kyler has never been consistently rolled out for his entire career. I agree w the notion he’s just to short to be a pocket passer - but why would you ale a guy w 4.3 speed and elusive running ability a pocket passer ?

 

[BritCard]

Possible explanations:

1. K1 running the plays Petzing called.

2. WR's not being open downfield

3. K1 having zero faith that MHJ/Dortch/Wilson can make a contested catch.

4. McBride paying Murray off 82% of the time K1 threw him the ball.

All more likely that "Kyler Murray is afraid the throw the ball down the field", which is ridiculous.

Kyler has been bottom 10 the last 3 years in 2 different schemes with 2 OCs.

At some point you just need to accept it's him.

 

[BritCard]

If there’s an objective measure that Monti is doing a good job, I’m open to it. You are what your record says you are.

Maybe this is a young team coming together. Let’s wipe away Monti’s first season and a half and look at the record of MOJG over the past 10 games.

5-5. Good job.

This is fair.

His record says he came in to 4 win team with a QB out with an ACL, the shell of Colt McCoy as backup and had to bring in Josh Dobbs for 10 games when it became apparent that McCoy sucked.

And has been tied to a mediocre QB on a top 10 contract.

 

[BritCard]

He was great with the deep ball when he had Kirk (2019, 2020) & DHop (2020, 2021). And I would put them in the “great WR” category. He was even really good throwing deep to Fitz. And even though AJ Green was washed by the end of 2021, Kyler was really good throwing deep to him for awhile. Once DHop got hurt against GB in the infamous 8th game of 2021, DHop was never the same. By 2022, DHop was suspended, AJ was thoroughly washed, Kirk & Fitz were gone, and Marquise Brown couldn’t catch a contested pass if his life depended on it. So, my point is that Kyler was successful with the deep ball when he had the WR’s to throw deep to.

Where does that leave us this year? Hard to say. Even though MHJ had a good rookie season, no one should argue the fact that the Cardinals expected more in year 1. I’m still confident that he’ll be a great NFL WR, but he underwhelmed with contested throws all last year & was the single biggest reason that we fell just short of making the playoffs. When your WR1 only comes down with 52% of the passes thrown his way, it’s tough to beat the good teams on the schedule. I expect improvement from Marvin this year & hoping it’s significant improvement. Because this team cannot get to where it wants to get without that improvement.

It's not the receivers. We've all seem him throw badly in inaccurate balls to open guys and the stats back this up.

 

[BritCard]

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[Crimson Warrior]

It's not the receivers. We've all seem him throw badly in inaccurate balls to open guys and the stats back this up.

Except the most important stat of all. Completion percentage, which was 67%+ in 2024. lol

 

[Crimson Warrior]

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yeah. sure we had the third best pass pro last year. lol

Nobody believes that britcard.

 

[kerouac9]

Except the most important stat of all. Completion percentage, which was 67%+ in 2024. lol

That’s not the most important stat at all

 

[SECTION 11]

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Ok I don’t buy this at all. How much of his time to throw was created by him and not for him? Same with sacks. How many of those did he avoid on his own as opposed to great line play? You can’t just pretend that he doesn’t have pressure up the middle pretty consistently.

 

[SECTION 11]

Let’s reset. Raise your hand if you have a television.

 

[PDXChris]

Generally speaking, to throw a good deep ball you have to hang in the pocket, step into the throw, and be aggressive. Kyler doesn’t really do any of these things anymore.

Agreed and he's been much worse since the ACL injury. By now, we know its not physical, so he must have a mental block stepping into those deep passes on that knee.

I'd love to see side by side mechanics of deeps throws in year 2 vs last year.

 

[kerouac9]

Agreed and he's been much worse since the ACL injury. By now, we know its not physical, so he must have a mental block stepping into those deep passes on that knee.

I'd love to see side by side mechanics of deeps throws in year 2 vs last year.

It was deplorable since the Green Bay game