OT: Kyler Murray Debacle Thread

[kerouac9]

Just because someone tells you do something doesn’t make it collusion either. Have to have evidence that they actually followed that gameplan somehow.

Legally yes. They standard today apparently is someone has to send an email that says, “everyone: would you like to do some price fixing?” Then everyone in the group has to say “yes.”

Seeing as there’s been zero fully guaranteed contracts since this meeting and after Watson set the standard is a pretty convincing argument to me.

 

[Stout]

Legally yes. They standard today apparently is someone has to send an email that says, “everyone: would you like to do some price fixing?” Then everyone in the group has to say “yes.”

Seeing as there’s been zero fully guaranteed contracts since this meeting and after Watson set the standard is a pretty convincing argument to me.

Not really, considering that fully guaranteed contracts never happened until Watson, and now we have two 2nd round draft picks with fully guaranteed contracts.

 

[kerouac9]

Not really, considering that fully guaranteed contracts never happened until Watson, and now we have two 2nd round draft picks with fully guaranteed contracts.

Those are apples and oranges. All first-round pick contracts are fully guaranteed under the CBA.

Lamar Jackson wanted a fully guaranteed contract and couldn’t get one despite having an MVP.

 

[Stout]

Those are apples and oranges. All first-round pick contracts are fully guaranteed under the CBA.

Lamar Jackson wanted a fully guaranteed contract and couldn’t get one despite having an MVP.

So what? 2nd-round picks aren't, and Jackson is irrelevant. The outlier is Watson. Only one fully guaranteed contract with no whisper of collusion before, and now suddenly it's collusion if a good player doesn't get one?

 

[kerouac9]

So what? 2nd-round picks aren't, and Jackson is irrelevant. The outlier is Watson. Only one fully guaranteed contract with no whisper of collusion before, and now suddenly it's collusion if a good player doesn't get one?

I can't tell if you're being intentionally obtuse to Argue Online or if you really don't see what's happening.

We talk all the time about market-setting contracts, how the next guy up for the contract gets a bump on the guy who came before. Then we had a market-setting contract with Watson getting his deal fully guaranteed. We're three years after that contract and while there's been a strange and recent creep in rookie contract guarantees, there's be no other fully guaranteed contract.

We also had a meeting called by the NFL Management Council within days or weeks of the Browns signing Watson where we know they warned the teams about the danger of fully guaranteed contracts and how important a negotiating win this has been for the league.

We had Kyler Murray and Lamar Jackson seeking fully guaranteed contracts in the aftermath of the Watson deal. Jackson received permission to seek a trade and, despite having MVP credentials, no team was willing to make that offer. Organizations offered oafish excuses why they weren't interested in trading for an MVP-caliber QB in his 20s.

 

[Stout]

I can't tell if you're being intentionally obtuse to Argue Online or if you really don't see what's happening.

We talk all the time about market-setting contracts, how the next guy up for the contract gets a bump on the guy who came before. Then we had a market-setting contract with Watson getting his deal fully guaranteed. We're three years after that contract and while there's been a strange and recent creep in rookie contract guarantees, there's be no other fully guaranteed contract.

We also had a meeting called by the NFL Management Council within days or weeks of the Browns signing Watson where we know they warned the teams about the danger of fully guaranteed contracts and how important a negotiating win this has been for the league.

We had Kyler Murray and Lamar Jackson seeking fully guaranteed contracts in the aftermath of the Watson deal. Jackson received permission to seek a trade and, despite having MVP credentials, no team was willing to make that offer. Organizations offered oafish excuses why they weren't interested in trading for an MVP-caliber QB in his 20s.

Meh.

 

[PDXChris]

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[kerouac9]

RIP Swoosh I guess

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I think talk is cheap, but the bit about running more at least shows Murray understands what is necessary for him to be considered successful.

To realize his full potential, he has to impact the game with his running as much as he does with his passing. That was the whole proposition for him coming out of college. A once in a generation combination of passing and running.

The path to an MVP is a combined land and air assault.

 

[krazy2k]

I think talk is cheap, but the bit about running more at least shows Murray understands what is necessary for him to be considered successful.

To realize his full potential, he has to impact the game with his running as much as he does with his passing. That was the whole proposition for him coming out of college. A once in a generation combination of passing and running.

The path to an MVP is a combined land and air assault.

I'd take realization of some potential at this point - quite a few years since he was drafted.

 

[football karma]

The path to an MVP is a combined land and air assault.

I think this is correct

last years passer rating for Kyler was 16th - right there with Stafford, Purdy, Mahommes, Jordan Love -- qbs for teams that are considered legit playoff contenders

its the 570 yards and 5 tds on the ground that bumps an above average passer rating into a top 10 QBR.

I think he has to run more next year, both designed and off structure

 

[Adrian]

Analyst Believes It's Playoffs or Trade Kyler Murray for Arizona Cardinals

If the Arizona Cardinals don't make the postseason, SI believes some serious questions need to be asked.

www.si.com

 

[Stout]

Analyst Believes It's Playoffs or Trade Kyler Murray for Arizona Cardinals

If the Arizona Cardinals don't make the postseason, SI believes some serious questions need to be asked.

www.si.com

It needs to be more. It needs to be him not choking to clinch the playoffs, then not choking IN the playoffs. It's playoffs and a win for me. The only way I'd want him back otherwise is if he balls out and it's more than clear it's not his fault.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You know how you know it’s almost football season? You have an actual nightmare of an opening day 19-16 loss where on the last Cardinals drive to try and win or tie, Kyler stumbles, falls and fumbles the ball away at our own 40 yard line to seal the deal.

 

[Stout]

You know how you know it’s almost football season? You have a nightmare of an opening day 19-16 loss where on the last Cardinals drive to try and win or tie, Kyler stumbles, falls and fumbles the ball away at our own 40 yard line to seal the deal.

Damn Cheese, even I ain't going that dark yet.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Damn Cheese, even I ain't going that dark yet.

i can't help what my dreams are! that one really happened last night and i woke up after, just kinda chuckled and went back to bed.

 

[Stout]

i can't help what my dreams are! that one really happened last night and i woke up after, just kinda chuckled and went back to bed.

Oh, my bad. I misread your post.

 

[oaken1]

i can't help what my dreams are! that one really happened last night and i woke up after, just kinda chuckled and went back to bed.

It was just gas.

 

[Outerlimits]

I think talk is cheap, but the bit about running more at least shows Murray understands what is necessary for him to be considered successful.

To realize his full potential, he has to impact the game with his running as much as he does with his passing. That was the whole proposition for him coming out of college. A once in a generation combination of passing and running.

The path to an MVP is a combined land and air assault.

Great post Crimson. Agree completely. He certainly showed that effective combination early in his career.

I'm actually more concerned about his deep ball accuracy in recent seasons. Defenses in his first few years absolutely had to worry about his quickness and also accurate deep strikes down the field.(even when scrambling)

If defenses have to start worrying about that again, his rushing ability will also be significantly more effective.

For some reason he hasn't been the same since returning from the injury during the close Green Bay loss several years ago. We still see brief periods that remind us of those early years, but they are unfortunately not the norm.

Kyler is likely aware this is kind of a make or break season for him. I think(and hope) he will be very successful this year.

 

[Covert Rain]

Analyst Believes It's Playoffs or Trade Kyler Murray for Arizona Cardinals

If the Arizona Cardinals don't make the postseason, SI believes some serious questions need to be asked.

www.si.com

This thread is ironic. To me there is no debate. Kyle has been a massive disappointment. It's playoff plus win or there just isn't any excuses left to keep him.

 

[Adrian]

ESPN: Kyler Murray Needs to Reassert Himself

When debating who has the most pressure on them entering 2025, none may have a brighter spotlight than Arizona Cardinals quarterback Kyler Murray. Murray,

www.yardbarker.com

 

[Russ Smith]

Budda Baker: Kyler Murray's been in his bag, will do it all this year

Cardinals quarterback Kyler Murray said early in the offseason that he feels fully recovered from his 2022 torn ACL and that makes him want to run more this season in order to unleash the full potential of the team's offense.

sports.yahoo.com

Definitely needed to run more at times last year but honestly the thing Kyler needs to do better, and the WR's are a part of it, is throw the deep ball. He was a great deep ball thrower early in his career, not lately. Some of that is not having a real deep threat but some of that is just his deep throws haven't been as good.

 

[football karma]

training camp is soon -- but lets be real, practice highlights arent going to move the needle here.

and Kyler wont play in the preseason.

beginning to doubt this thread gets to 200 pages before the season starts.

maybe someone can breakdown that TikTok video he posted on his offseason workout frame by frame

 

[PACardsFan]

Definitely needed to run more at times last year but honestly the thing Kyler needs to do better, and the WR's are a part of it, is throw the deep ball. He was a great deep ball thrower early in his career, not lately. Some of that is not having a real deep threat but some of that is just his deep throws haven't been as good.

Murray was a phenomenal deep thrower when he had Kirk & Hop. He hasn’t had the weapons to get that portion of his game back to where it once was. Can we finally be honest and come to grips with the fact that MHJ as a rookie really held our offense back last year. Some of that is Petzing’s fault, but MHJ just wasn’t ready to provide us with what the Cardinals expected from him. I was hoping we could bring Kirk back, but unfortunately for us, he got traded to Houston instead. I do think that MHJ will make major strides this season, but is he the long ball threat that everyone thinks we need? Time will tell. One thing is certain, he has to come down with a much higher % of passes thrown his way this year.

 

[Stout]

Murray was a phenomenal deep thrower when he had Kirk & Hop. He hasn’t had the weapons to get that portion of his game back to where it once was. Can we finally be honest and come to grips with the fact that MHJ as a rookie really held our offense back last year. Some of that is Petzing’s fault, but MHJ just wasn’t ready to provide us with what the Cardinals expected from him. I was hoping we could bring Kirk back, but unfortunately for us, he got traded to Houston instead. I do think that MHJ will make major strides this season, but is he the long ball threat that everyone thinks we need? Time will tell. One thing is certain, he has to come down with a much higher % of passes thrown his way this year.

He hasn't had weapons as good, but neither has he been good at it either. He has simply looked off when throwing the deep ball these last few years. For me it's a combo of both.