2023 Phoenix Suns Offseason

[Cheesebeef]

Well I would never take Sabonis. Nobody will ever convince me Ayton isn't more talented, because he is.

Doesn’t matter if you have all the talent in the world if you refuse to use/maximize it.

Sabonis was total garbage in the playoffs this year, of course so was Ayton.

Sabonis in his total garbage playoff run averaged 16/11/5… versus the much ballyhooed “Dominayton” 2021 run in the playoffs… 16/11/1.

So Sabonis’ garbage = Ayton’s peak. And I think that playoff run is over-hyped. The only reason it stands out is because Ayton was actually consistent for three straight series… a stretch we just RARELY see, sprinkled with a couple of eye-popping performances before no-showing against the Bucks.

And at least Sabonis tried in his series where he sucked this year instead of quitting the last two years.

 

[Folster]

Gambo said today Nurse may still be a candidate and he might have been wrong to count him out.

He also said there is zero chance Suns will pay Chris Paul 30 million this year. Said they will either trade him or cut him for the 15 million. They would then offer him the min if he still wanted to play for us.

The CP3 blurb is encouraging.

 

[Finito]

Doesn’t matter if you have all the talent in the world if you refuse to use/maximize it.

Sabonis in his total garbage playoff run averaged 16/11/5… versus the much ballyhooed “Dominayton” 2021 run in the playoffs… 16/11/1.

So Sabonis’ garbage = Ayton’s peak. And I think that playoff run is over-hyped. The only reason it stands out is because Ayton was actually consistent for three straight series… a stretch we just RARELY see, sprinkled with a couple of eye-popping performances before no-showing against the Bucks.

And at least Sabonis tried in his series where he sucked this year instead of quitting the last two years.

But Sabonis was option 1 while Ayton was option 3 in those years.

However you should have made that trade.

 

[Finito]

Gambo said today Nurse may still be a candidate and he might have been wrong to count him out.

He also said there is zero chance Suns will pay Chris Paul 30 million this year. Said they will either trade him or cut him for the 15 million. They would then offer him the min if he still wanted to play for us.

Good

 

[Yuma]

The CP3 blurb is encouraging.

Well he was wrong about Nurse. There's so many things about this that are unknown. Different guys are saying different things on how the cap works with a trade for CP3, etc. No one is talking about if CP3 gets cut + Ayton traded and how that scenario affects the cap. Or If BOTH CP3 and Ayton are traded. Etc. Every podcast I watch, guys either don't talk about the combinations, or say opposite things.

 

[95pro]

There’s something I read that we will try to target Brogdon from Celtics. He solid but I don’t he pushes the needle that much for 22M.

I think that’s what I read, it was early I the AM.

 

[clyde2tw]

Well he was wrong about Nurse. There's so many things about this that are unknown. Different guys are saying different things on how the cap works with a trade for CP3, etc. No one is talking about if CP3 gets cut + Ayton traded and how that scenario affects the cap. Or If BOTH CP3 and Ayton are traded. Etc. Every podcast I watch, guys either don't talk about the combinations, or say opposite things.

I read on the RM board that CP3 and Shamet's contracts are attractive to teams because their one year salary could be stretched out to 5 years for this year's cap relief. Normal final-year contracts cannot. That's maybe the reason CP3's option will get picked up, as trade assets say to Clippers for Mann/Zubac/etc. so that they could get under certain salary level to have at least some exception to sign Westbrook. Combine it with the Portland rumor, I can envision the following trade:
Suns get Simons\Mann\Zubac\Covington\Morris, for DA/CP3/Shamet
Blazers get DA/Batum for Simmons/Nurkic
Clippers get CP3/Nurkic/Shamet for Mann\Zubac\Covington\Morris\Batum.
Clippers then cut and spread out CP3 and Shamet to reduce oever 30m cap hit; sign Westbrook to exception and resign Plumlee and Gordon to about 10m/y. Their roster is about the same as in the POs + their injured stars in PG/KL.
Blazers extend JGrant and pick Miller/Henderson, and go balling.

 

[elindholm]

Said they will either trade him or cut him for the 15 million. They would then offer him the min if he still wanted to play for us.

I'm pretty sure that's against the CBA. Another team could sign Paul if the Suns waive him, but not the Suns.

 

[Folster]

I'm pretty sure that's against the CBA. Another team could sign Paul if the Suns waive him, but not the Suns.

I believe the Suns could re-sign him on a min deal if they just waive him. But if they waive and stretch his contract over 5 years, I believe they'd be prohibited from signing him.

 

[clyde2tw]

I'm pretty sure that's against the CBA. Another team could sign Paul if the Suns waive him, but not the Suns.

What's the stipulation if we traded CP3 who got cut by that team? I believe we are not allowed to sign him back right away.

 

[Sparky16]

I didn't say perennial all-star, but it's not impossible.

He is better than Sabonis, and he just made the all-star team. The bar isn't super high for centers.

Sabonis was just voted 3rd team all NBA, the defenders of DA is a complete clown show

 

[Germz249]

Doesn’t matter if you have all the talent in the world if you refuse to use/maximize it.

Sabonis in his total garbage playoff run averaged 16/11/5… versus the much ballyhooed “Dominayton” 2021 run in the playoffs… 16/11/1.

So Sabonis’ garbage = Ayton’s peak. And I think that playoff run is over-hyped. The only reason it stands out is because Ayton was actually consistent for three straight series… a stretch we just RARELY see, sprinkled with a couple of eye-popping performances before no-showing against the Bucks.

And at least Sabonis tried in his series where he sucked this year instead of quitting the last two years.

Wasn’t Sabonis hurt also? Took a stomp to the chest..

 

[elindholm]

What's the stipulation if we traded CP3 who got cut by that team? I believe we are not allowed to sign him back right away.

From cbafaq.com, Question 64:

"When a team trades a player who is subsequently waived by the receiving team, it cannot claim the player off waivers or re-sign the player until the one-year anniversary of the trade, or until the July 1 following the end of his contract, whichever is earlier."

(Elsewhere, it clarifies that a buyout is a type of waiver.)

From Question 66:

"After a buyout in which the player's guaranteed salary is reduced, the team cannot re-sign the player or claim him of [sic] waivers for one year, or until the waived contract would have ended, whichever is later."

Bottom line, Paul cannot play for the Suns next season unless they pay him the full $30 million.

 

[Folster]

From cbafaq.com, Question 64:

"When a team trades a player who is subsequently waived by the receiving team, it cannot claim the player off waivers or re-sign the player until the one-year anniversary of the trade, or until the July 1 following the end of his contract, whichever is earlier."

(Elsewhere, it clarifies that a buyout is a type of waiver.)

From Question 66:

"After a buyout in which the player's guaranteed salary is reduced, the team cannot re-sign the player or claim him of [sic] waivers for one year, or until the waived contract would have ended, whichever is later."

Bottom line, Paul cannot play for the Suns next season unless they pay him the full $30 million.

I'm not sure waiving Paul and paying him the guaranteed $15M is considered a buyout. His contract is not being bought out or reduced. They are not altering the terms of the contract.

 

[Hoop Head]

I think @Folster has it right, it's not a true buyout. It's more akin to declining an option and negotiating a new deal, which happens frequently both player and team initiated.

 

[clyde2tw]

From cbafaq.com, Question 64:

"When a team trades a player who is subsequently waived by the receiving team, it cannot claim the player off waivers or re-sign the player until the one-year anniversary of the trade, or until the July 1 following the end of his contract, whichever is earlier."

(Elsewhere, it clarifies that a buyout is a type of waiver.)

From Question 66:

"After a buyout in which the player's guaranteed salary is reduced, the team cannot re-sign the player or claim him of [sic] waivers for one year, or until the waived contract would have ended, whichever is later."

Bottom line, Paul cannot play for the Suns next season unless they pay him the full $30 million.

There seems a way to go around it, by having 3rd team sign the waived player, CP3, and then trade him to the original team, Suns, after Dec. 15 or whatsever the date for new contracts to be traded again.

 

[elindholm]

I'm not sure waiving Paul and paying him the guaranteed $15M is considered a buyout. His contract is not being bought out or reduced. They are not altering the terms of the contract.

Cbafaq #63:

"For contracts and extensions signed under the current CBA, guarantees can be contingent only upon one of the following:

• Whether the team waives the player by a certain point in time (and the guarantee must increase if the player is still on the roster)
• Benchmarks relating to team or player performance, based solely on official NBA statistics
• Benchmarks relating to the player's physical condition (for example, weight)
• A particular injury, illness or other medical condition
• The team's ability to obtain insurance on the player's contract"

Paul's partial guarantee wouldn't fit any of those categories except for the first one. For the Suns to pay him $15 million instead of $30 million, they have to waive him. He's guaranteed to be paid unless he's waived.

 

[elindholm]

There seems a way to go around it, by having 3rd team sign the waived player, CP3, and then trade him to the original team, Suns, after Dec. 15 or whatsever the date for new contracts to be traded again.

Could be. I've spent enough time reading that site for now. But it's difficult to imagine why a third team would do such a thing, take advantage of the chance to sign Paul on the cheap and then give him away to a contender.

 

[Hoop Head]

Cbafaq #63:

"For contracts and extensions signed under the current CBA, guarantees can be contingent only upon one of the following:

• Whether the team waives the player by a certain point in time (and the guarantee must increase if the player is still on the roster)
• Benchmarks relating to team or player performance, based solely on official NBA statistics
• Benchmarks relating to the player's physical condition (for example, weight)
• A particular injury, illness or other medical condition
• The team's ability to obtain insurance on the player's contract"

Paul's partial guarantee wouldn't fit any of those categories except for the first one. For the Suns to pay him $15 million instead of $30 million, they have to waive him. He's guaranteed to be paid unless he's waived.

No one is disputing he'd be waived. There wouldn't be a "buyout" to reduce the guarantee amount, his current contract would come to an end once he cleared waivers and the Suns would be on the hook for the guaranteed portion, $15m. They aren't reducing that. They then put him on waivers and if he clears he's a free agent with no ties to anyone. It would be as if his contract expired, as far as the books are concerned. So they could sign him back.


Something semi-similar happened with John Wall as he was on the books in Houston, waived and cleared and signed in LA. He was actually traded on his new contract back to Houston for Eric Gordon but it was a new contract so there wasn't an issue. Its complicated but ok according to the CBA.

 

[Yuma]

I'm pretty sure that's against the CBA. Another team could sign Paul if the Suns waive him, but not the Suns.

I heard if he passes waivers and isn't signed by another team, THEN we could resign him for vet minimum. I heard WOJ say it, and guys on the radio locally have been stating that. But you don't know if he would pass waivers, and if he would resign here if he did.

We owe him $15 mil even if we waive him.

 

[elindholm]

I heard if he passes waivers and isn't signed by another team, THEN we could resign him for vet minimum. I heard WOJ say it, and guys on the radio locally have been stating that. But you don't know if he would pass waivers, and if he would resign here if he did.

Read cbafaq.com and let me know what you think. I seriously doubt that the local radio guys have spent much quality time with it.

 

[GatorAZ]

We need to move on from Chris Paul. He’s still smart enough to rack up assists but his efficiency has completely tanked and he’s so predictable. Not to mention he’s never made it thru a playoff run without some bizarre injury/weirdness happening. It was a successful 3-year stint but it’s time.

 

[Cheesebeef]

We need to move on from Chris Paul. He’s still smart enough to rack up assists but his efficiency has completely tanked and he’s so predictable. Not to mention he’s never made it thru a playoff run without some bizarre injury/weirdness happening. It was a successful 3-year stint but it’s time.

This.

 

[Yuma]

Read cbafaq.com and let me know what you think. I seriously doubt that the local radio guys have spent much quality time with it.

Just read it. I don't see where it prohibits the original team from signing a man that cleared waivers and is now a free agent. It only prohibits teams that waived the player if they stretched his contract. They have to wait for the stretched portion to expire.

 

[Yuma]

If the player clears waivers he becomes a free agent, and is free to sign with the team of his choice. The player's roster spot is freed-up as soon as the team places the player on waivers. The team can sign a new player or acquire one via trade immediately, without waiting for the player to be claimed or to clear waivers. The team continues to pay the guaranteed portion of the terminated contract (see question number 63).

Looks like we would be paying the $15 mil no matter what.