Bucks @ Suns Tuesday game thread 3-14-2023

Proximo

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We didn't lose to the Bucks because they're tough and we're a finesse team. We lost because they have far more talent than us right now. Without Durant, this is just a generic try hard team.
OK. You do realize that was the best team in the league that we were in the game with all night when we shot a pretty lousy percentage from the field.

I actually took from that game that with Durant we have a chance against them, however they did get a subpar performance from Jrue, and Middleton did not play so it will not be easy.
 

Proximo

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I am tired of the NBA.. Luka gets away with all these push offs and gets gifted trips to the free throw line.. Giannis can lower his shoulder and run through people and get the blocking foul and free trips to the free throw line.

These guys going to the free throw line 15-20 times a game.. its starting to be a joke to me..
Yeah, it's called superstar treatment - and it's probably the main reason you need a superstar to win a title. The good news is we now have one of them.
 

Chaplin

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Absolutely McGee. There is a big drop off with attitude and toughness coming off our bench verses Landale. It’s not even close. Teams were calling the Suns tough, physical and sometimes even dirty by opposing fans.
Jock is more skilled than Javale and that trumps whatever mojo McGee provided.
 

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Yeah, it's called superstar treatment - and it's probably the main reason you need a superstar to win a title. The good news is we now have one of them.

He isn’t going to the line at the same rate. It seems to be Giannis, Luka and Embid who have been in the top 5 in free throw attempts. I am not a betting man but I would probably bet Giannis has been in the top 5 in free throw attempts for the last 5 or so years.
 

Covert Rain

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Jock is more skilled than Javale and that trumps whatever mojo McGee provided.
Offensively maybe but not defensively. McGee to me was better on the pick and roll and getting alley oops from Paul etc. Jock maybe has a more consistent hook shot. However, nobody is intimated by Jock on the block. Nobody is worried about Jock's physicality.
 
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Ouchie-Z-Clown

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OK. You do realize that was the best team in the league that we were in the game with all night when we shot a pretty lousy percentage from the field.

I actually took from that game that with Durant we have a chance against them, however they did get a subpar performance from Jrue, and Middleton did not play so it will not be easy.
Agree. If we have Durant and pretty good health that series would be a battle.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Jock is more skilled than Javale and that trumps whatever mojo McGee provided.
Disagree. (A) Jock isn’t that much more skilled. People have already forgotten how effectively Javale was scoring last season. And jock misses a lot of layups and is an atrocious three point shooter and keeps jacking them up. He’s also a poor defender. (B) the toughness we miss with combination of mcgee and crowder pervaded the entire team. Sometimes the sum is greater than the individual parts. I think this is one of those scenarios.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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He isn’t going to the line at the same rate. It seems to be Giannis, Luka and Embid who have been in the top 5 in free throw attempts. I am not a betting man but I would probably bet Giannis has been in the top 5 in free throw attempts for the last 5 or so years.
I mean you’re talking about three dudes who are physically large, have ballhandling skills and aggressive mindsets. Yeah they’re going to go to the line a LOT. Do they get there more often than they deserve? Tough to tell as Giannis takes a lot of physicality, but he also gets away with offensive fouls, that’s my frustration.
 

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Yeah, it's called superstar treatment - and it's probably the main reason you need a superstar to win a title. The good news is we now have one of them.

I suppose, but the other 14 guys need to figure it out, particularly Ayton. Drawing fouls is a skill that’s taught by some of the elite coaches, because if you can dictate the way the game is officiated, you can get into the other team’s head. I think with th Suns in particular, in these matchups with players who can get to the line at will, they overthink and catastrophize. And with a guy like Ayton, who’s generally afraid of fouling and fouling out but still draws the difficult assignments like guarding Giannis, it stinks because you want the game to be played the right way. Monty either needs to have drills where the team practices drawing contact or find a coach who does more than whines about the inequities of officiating
 

Chaplin

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Disagree. (A) Jock isn’t that much more skilled. People have already forgotten how effectively Javale was scoring last season. And jock misses a lot of layups and is an atrocious three point shooter and keeps jacking them up. He’s also a poor defender. (B) the toughness we miss with combination of mcgee and crowder pervaded the entire team. Sometimes the sum is greater than the individual parts. I think this is one of those scenarios.
Did you guys just conveniently forget that Javale was UNPLAYABLE in the playoffs??
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I suppose, but the other 14 guys need to figure it out, particularly Ayton. Drawing fouls is a skill that’s taught by some of the elite coaches, because if you can dictate the way the game is officiated, you can get into the other team’s head. I think with th Suns in particular, in these matchups with players who can get to the line at will, they overthink and catastrophize. And with a guy like Ayton, who’s generally afraid of fouling and fouling out but still draws the difficult assignments like guarding Giannis, it stinks because you want the game to be played the right way. Monty either needs to have drills where the team practices drawing contact or find a coach who does more than whines about the inequities of officiating
Agree. Drawing contact isn't rocket science. Particularly for an athletic big who can shoot and plays primarily against big lugs. Pump fair and two dribbles into a defender should draw a foul every time. But he’d have to do it a LOT to shed his “shies away from contact” reputation. I think at present the default is to give the defender the benefit of the doubt against Ayton bc refs know he generally tries to avoid contact. He has to work to get them to change that perception.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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You guys are arguing about which turd is the best coiled of the two.
Lol. Kinda true. But I’m more focused on the attitude mcgee had helped create with the team overall, not his play.
 

Chaplin

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(A) he wasn’t unplayable against the Pels. (B) You are completely missing the point we are making.
No I'm not. You don't have a McGee strictly because he gets the guys worked up before a game. Because that's all he does this year. He was unplayable against the Pels and again against the Mavs. He was a walking foul collector and didn't wow when doing his rim protection, which you seem to think he can do. Dallas is showing he's not even playable in the regular season anymore.

Now whether you agree or not with Monty's finesse philosophy, whatever "toughness" McGee provides doesn't amount to virtually anything because he is a negative on the court.
 

Covert Rain

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No I'm not. You don't have a McGee strictly because he gets the guys worked up before a game. Because that's all he does this year. He was unplayable against the Pels and again against the Mavs. He was a walking foul collector and didn't wow when doing his rim protection, which you seem to think he can do. Dallas is showing he's not even playable in the regular season anymore.

Now whether you agree or not with Monty's finesse philosophy, whatever "toughness" McGee provides doesn't amount to virtually anything because he is a negative on the court.
Yes you are. That's not why we had McGee. He brought legit toughness to the lineup and that was valuable when Ayton went to the bench. I think you are forgetting all the national commentary on what a good pick up that was for the Suns because they lost very little in terms of physicality when Ayton went to the bench. He was a big part of how deep this team was.

What he is doing this year with Dallas has no bearing at all what he brought to this team. Some guys simply fit on some teams better than others. We needed McGee in spot play. Not the starting lineup. He did that better than Jock. Monty had McGee as a regular contributor. There are some nights Jock can't get off the bench. Monty turned to freaking Biz the past few games to try and find something.
 
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Chaplin

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Yes you are. That's not why we had McGee. He brought legit toughness to the lineup and that was valuable when Ayton went to the bench. I think you are forgetting all the national commentary on what a good pick up that was for the Suns because they lost very little in terms of physicality when Ayton went to the bench. He was a big part of how deep this team was.

What he is doing this year with Dallas has no bearing at all what he brought to this team. Some guys simply fit on some teams better than others. We needed McGee in spot play. Not the starting lineup. He did that better than Jock. Monty had McGee as a regular contributor. There are some nights Jock can't get off the bench. Monty turned to freaking Biz the past few games to try and find something.
Yeah you're right. After all, with McGee we won a title, so... Oh. Wait.

Monty is turning out to be only slightly better than incompetent in his rotations, so him being wishy-washy with Jock and Biz isn't a good argument, IMO. McGee wasn't a "regular contributor" in the playoffs.
 

Covert Rain

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Yeah you're right. After all, with McGee we won a title, so... Oh. Wait.

Monty is turning out to be only slightly better than incompetent in his rotations, so him being wishy-washy with Jock and Biz isn't a good argument, IMO. McGee wasn't a "regular contributor" in the playoffs.
That's not the flex you think it is. If the team wins a title this year it will be because of KD not because Jock replaced McGee. That really doesn't invalidate anything McGee brought last year. Jock is struggling in the regular season to bring any physical presence. How do you think that will translate in the playoffs?!!?
 

Chaplin

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That's not the flex you think it is. If the team wins a title this year it will be because of KD not because Jock replaced McGee. That really doesn't invalidate anything McGee brought last year. Jock is struggling in the regular season to bring any physical presence. How do you think that will translate in the playoffs?!!?
Huh? Where did I ever say, even a little bit, that Jock replacing McGee is a deciding factor in the playoffs? That is so far out of left field it’s ridiculous.

You’re touting McGee’s “toughness” as being part of the reason why we aren’t as tough this year. I disagree saying not only was that minimal when he was here, but it’s made even worse because he was useless in the playoffs. Where you got “Jock is how we’ll win in the playoffs” from that is mind boggling. At least Jock will play in the playoffs.
 

Covert Rain

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Huh? Where did I ever say, even a little bit, that Jock replacing McGee is a deciding factor in the playoffs? That is so far out of left field it’s ridiculous.

You’re touting McGee’s “toughness” as being part of the reason why we aren’t as tough this year. I disagree saying not only was that minimal when he was here, but it’s made even worse because he was useless in the playoffs. Where you got “Jock is how we’ll win in the playoffs” from that is mind boggling. At least Jock will play in the playoffs.
You mean out of left field by equating McGee and not winning a title?!?! OK.

Just about everybody across the league all season long was commenting on it for no reason I guess. Also, McGee averaged 8 points a game in the first series and scored in double figures 3 times in spot minutes. What are you talking about? Nobody played well in the Mavs series so not sure how that invalidates anything at all. If you think the team is just as tough with Jock that is hilarious.

By the way Jock has scored in double figures once since January 24th.
 
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Chaplin

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You mean out of left field by equating McGee and not winning a title?!?! OK.

Just about everybody across the league all season long was commenting on it for no reason I guess. Also, McGee averaged 8 points a game in the first series and scored in double figures 3 times in spot minutes. What are you talking about? Nobody played well in the Mavs series so not sure how that invalidates anything at all. If you think the team is just as tough with Jock that is hilarious.

By the way Jock has scored in double figures once since January 24th.
Stop moving the goalposts. We're not comparing McGee to Jock, never were.
 

Superbone

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There is no way to beat this team if this is allowed. This is unfair.

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Covert Rain

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Stop moving the goalposts. We're not comparing McGee to Jock, never were.
What?!?!!? They play the same position. We subtracted McGee and replaced with Jock. The team definitely is not as tough as last season. What sparked this debate was losing Crowder & McGee and the toughness they brought. @Ouchie-Z-Clown brought it up and you dismissed McGee's contribution to that.

Talk about moving the goal post.
 

Chaplin

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What?!?!!? They play the same position. We subtracted McGee and replaced with Jock. The team definitely is not as tough as last season. What sparked this debate was losing Crowder & McGee and the toughness they brought. @Ouchie-Z-Clown brought it up and you dismissed McGee's contribution to that.

Talk about moving the goal post.
We're not as tough, but I DON'T THINK MCGEE IS THE REASON FOR THAT. Not sure if the capital letters will help you, but probably not. Have a good day.
 

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