The Cardinals Are Trash

SoonerLou

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Actually I agree with your last post about the routes…. But still doesn’t Obsolve Kyler from adjusting. Sure Kliff is a huge problem. But he isn’t the only problem.
Eh to be fair that was the 2nd pass of the game and then he/Kliff targeted Brown repeatedly.

At some point AJ needs to make a play. Last year he was making that play even against good corners. He's washed now tho.

Not absolving Kyler either cause he should be focused on getting 1st downs to start games/get rhythm.
 

eastcoastDave

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I mean look at this. Ertz and Brown are both open. Ertz by a country mile. He has a clean pocket. But for some reason he looked at this pre snap and thought "Green is the best option here".

That's just some straight up garbage QB play.

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Yep. That’s your multi-million dollar QB. Maybe the film clause was there for just this reason. I don’t know why anyone would object to that contractural language, especially if they had seen Murray play. Offense just has to be better. QB1, coach, GM all have to do better.
 

Russ Smith

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I don’t care what the play design is when you’re the quarterback and you need 2 yards on the third and two and you see you’re number one wide receiver on the left getting a ten yard cushion you need to go there…. They can change what the play is and adjust. Any one of the great quarterbacks in this league would’ve seen it, recognize the situation and taken that option 1000% there literally is no excusing it. Much like britt said he just doesn’t understand football. Sadly.


Which is why I said the right read is of course to go the other way. What I'm pointing out is that was a scripted play from our coach, it was the THIRD offensive play of the game and that's what 5 year extension offensive genius KK drew up against a team playing all backup CB's except for Ramsey. You heard the reaction of Sanchez "I don't get it."

And yes absolutely Kyler should have just looked left and said screw this and threw it to Brown for the first down.

My point is Kyler has to play better but there's a limit on how well he can play when the guy calling the plays is this bad.

As Brit said given their CB situation literally every pass play should have been find their CB's other than Ramsey and attack that matchup. Ramsey should have been bored out of his mind nowhere near the ball unless he blitzed on passing downs the entire game.

But as people in the game thread said, Kliff wants to be the smartest man in the room, everyone expects me to go at the young CB's I'm smarter than that I'm going at Ramsey.
 

Russ Smith

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Eh to be fair that was the 2nd pass of the game and then he/Kliff targeted Brown repeatedly.

At some point AJ needs to make a play. Last year he was making that play even against good corners. He's washed now tho.

Not absolving Kyler either cause he should be focused on getting 1st downs to start games/get rhythm.

But as Brit said you have to as a play caller be aware. We all watch other NFL games, when a starting CB gets nicked up and leaves the game literally every other team in the league attacks the guy that just came in. If your LT gets hurt they immediately attack the backup LT, it's the same thing.

Kliff had a week to gameplan and it was known for days that they were going to have Ramsey and then backups at CB. And the THIRD scripted play of the game is AJ Green against Jalen Ramsey 1 on 1. It just makes no sense. Yes the QB should go away from it, 100% agree, but it shouldn't be the playcall in the first place.
 

Shane

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Which is why I said the right read is of course to go the other way. What I'm pointing out is that was a scripted play from our coach, it was the THIRD offensive play of the game and that's what 5 year extension offensive genius KK drew up against a team playing all backup CB's except for Ramsey. You heard the reaction of Sanchez "I don't get it."

And yes absolutely Kyler should have just looked left and said screw this and threw it to Brown for the first down.

My point is Kyler has to play better but there's a limit on how well he can play when the guy calling the plays is this bad.

As Brit said given their CB situation literally every pass play should have been find their CB's other than Ramsey and attack that matchup. Ramsey should have been bored out of his mind nowhere near the ball unless he blitzed on passing downs the entire game.

But as people in the game thread said, Kliff wants to be the smartest man in the room, everyone expects me to go at the young CB's I'm smarter than that I'm going at Ramsey.

Ok so correct me if I’m wrong here. But even a scripted play has multiple option and routes… You’re not required to go to a particular person on a scripted play. The play and where it goes should be dictated based on what the D shows you scripted or not. I recall many years of them raving about SF and the scripted plays they run to start the games etc and their QBs going through reads on their first 20 “scripted plays” the QBs didn’t just automatically go to one guy for 20 plays straight????
 

BritCard

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I saw a discussion of that play online the guy said the design of the play is to get man to man against AJ Green and attack that. The problem is as we're all saying WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD YOU THINK AJ GREEN AGAINST THEIR BEST CB makes any sense? And yes Kyler probably should have just looked at how deep the CB on Brown is and gone that way completely agree but apparently the design of the play by Kliff was let's throw at Ramsey with AJ Green, who predictably got zero separation. the only way to make the play work was a jump ball or a backshoulder but as we've seen before Kyler is afraid to throw the backshoulder to Green because you never know when Green will just give up on the play and allow the CB to get there. Ramsey isn't the best anymore but he's still going to jump routes all the time and he's sitting on the backshoulder so if Kyler throws it and AJ gives up, it's a picksix. So Kyler has to throw that up and make a jumpball and he didn't.

The right read is go the other way of course, even Mark Sanchez said that immediately. Normally find the 1 on 1 and go after it makes sense but Green isn't beating anybody 1 on 1 this year.

Said it over and over during the game thread yesterday we were a better team with Green and Conner out. Love Conner's heart but he's so slow to begin with and add in the ankle and he has no burst. It was obvious early, Kliff should have played Williams and Eno to get more burst at RB, and gone to more 2 TE sets.

I don't believe any play is designed for one single outcome.

Good plays are designed to stress the defense and then the QB chooses the area that is most stressed and adjusts his reads accordingly.

Here's the thing. When Kliff calls that play in the huddle the Ram's haven't lined up yet. He doesn't know if Green is going to have Ramsey on him (although he should expect it with Green out there alone that they would put Ramsey on an island). It's up to Kyler to choose where he goes based on how they are lined up.

If anything this play design should be designed to take the best CB out of the game on 3rd down. Isolate him out there on Green while the play goes the other way.

I'd bet any money Kliff is stood on the sideline thinking "Throw to Ertz, or Brown. Look at he space Kyler. Don't throw to AJ".

I wish Kliff wasn't such a cool bro and would chew Kyler out on the side after a play like this.
 

Chopper0080

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Which is why I said the right read is of course to go the other way. What I'm pointing out is that was a scripted play from our coach, it was the THIRD offensive play of the game and that's what 5 year extension offensive genius KK drew up against a team playing all backup CB's except for Ramsey. You heard the reaction of Sanchez "I don't get it."

And yes absolutely Kyler should have just looked left and said screw this and threw it to Brown for the first down.

My point is Kyler has to play better but there's a limit on how well he can play when the guy calling the plays is this bad.

As Brit said given their CB situation literally every pass play should have been find their CB's other than Ramsey and attack that matchup. Ramsey should have been bored out of his mind nowhere near the ball unless he blitzed on passing downs the entire game.

But as people in the game thread said, Kliff wants to be the smartest man in the room, everyone expects me to go at the young CB's I'm smarter than that I'm going at Ramsey.
Legit question. Am I the only one who was shocked Ramsey was man vs Aj Green for most of the early part of the game?

I say this because if you are scripting plays and you assume Kendrick will be on AJ Green and Ramsey will be on Brown's side of the field, this would be a matchup you would want to exploit. So, on this play, Kyler has to see that and exploit the Rams wasting Ramsey on Green. After that, Kliff needs to understand he can't assume Green will be matched up vs non-Ramsey defenders.
 

Russ Smith

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Ok so correct me if I’m wrong here. But even a scripted play has multiple option and routes… You’re not required to go to a particular person on a scripted play. The play and where it goes should be dictated based on what the D shows you scripted or not. I recall many years of them raving about SF and the scripted plays they run to start the games etc and their QBs going through reads on their first 20 “scripted plays” the QBs didn’t just automatically go to one guy for 20 plays straight????

I don't know what you're arguing I agree Kyler should NOT have thrown the ball to Green. My point is Kliff had a week to come up with a gameplan for the Rams, we play them 2-3 times a year. And that was his 3rd scripted play I'm going to by formation set it up so I'm isolating AJ Green 1 on 1. He knew their CB situation so he had to know the 1 on defense would be Ramsey.

It's just stupid.

We have issues with Kyler but it gets compounded by Kliff being as bad as he is, you're taking a QB who apparently doesn't like to change the play and giving him a guy who calls stupid plays.

3 weeks in a row the scripted plays do nothing and then when we get off that the offense gets better, that's not coincidence.
 

Shane

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I don't know what you're arguing I agree Kyler should NOT have thrown the ball to Green. My point is Kliff had a week to come up with a gameplan for the Rams, we play them 2-3 times a year. And that was his 3rd scripted play I'm going to by formation set it up so I'm isolating AJ Green 1 on 1. He knew their CB situation so he had to know the 1 on defense would be Ramsey.

It's just stupid.

We have issues with Kyler but it gets compounded by Kliff being as bad as he is, you're taking a QB who apparently doesn't like to change the play and giving him a guy who calls stupid plays.

3 weeks in a row the scripted plays do nothing and then when we get off that the offense gets better, that's not coincidence.
Because it sounds like you excused Kyler’s throw just because the play was “scripted” if not I digress…..
 

dscher

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100% truth but Someone will come in here and try to defend it I’m sure… in 3…2….1…… with “but kingsberry Kyler has no blame”
Don't let it bother you so much. Both things can be true. If you can't at least partially have a head coach take blame for his young franchise QB for his erratic decision making at times then what's the point in having a coach? There are times his young erratic play has bailed out his coach at times as well. Is it a wash in the end? Who the hell knows.
 

Russ Smith

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Legit question. Am I the only one who was shocked Ramsey was man vs Aj Green for most of the early part of the game?

I say this because if you are scripting plays and you assume Kendrick will be on AJ Green and Ramsey will be on Brown's side of the field, this would be a matchup you would want to exploit. So, on this play, Kyler has to see that and exploit the Rams wasting Ramsey on Green. After that, Kliff needs to understand he can't assume Green will be matched up vs non-Ramsey defenders.

I just figure the Rams realized by formation it was going to 1 on 1 and the only CB they trusted 1 on 1 at that point was Ramsey.

I agree with Brit by the way that's actually a good thing as I said in another post you should have seen Ramsey bored out of his mind in this game as we constantly schemed him 1 on 1 and threw away from him. But Kliff always wants to outsmart people.

And 100% Kyler should have gone the other way but I don't think Kliff set up that play to scheme Ramsey away from the ball I think he set that play up to get Green 1 on 1, I just don't know why he hasn't beaten anybody this year.
 

Shane

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Don't let it bother you so much. Both things can be true. If you can't at least partially have a head coach take blame for his young franchise QB for his erratic decision making at times then what's the point in having a coach? There are times his young erratic play has bailed out his coach at times as well. Is it a wash in the end? Who the hell knows.

Oh they both bug me 100% … But there are a slew of posters in here who literally think Kyler can do no wrong and it’s pretty much all Kingsberry…. Which is clearly a trash take.
 

BritCard

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I don't know what you're arguing I agree Kyler should NOT have thrown the ball to Green. My point is Kliff had a week to come up with a gameplan for the Rams, we play them 2-3 times a year. And that was his 3rd scripted play I'm going to by formation set it up so I'm isolating AJ Green 1 on 1. He knew their CB situation so he had to know the 1 on defense would be Ramsey.

It's just stupid.

We have issues with Kyler but it gets compounded by Kliff being as bad as he is, you're taking a QB who apparently doesn't like to change the play and giving him a guy who calls stupid plays.

3 weeks in a row the scripted plays do nothing and then when we get off that the offense gets better, that's not coincidence.

My understanding is that a script isn't a script like a movie.

It's not necessarily Play 1 > Play 2 > Play 3 etc because plays fail, situations change. If play 4 is designed for 1st and 10 and your on 3rd and 3 you obviously can't run it.

My understanding is that it's 15 or so plays they practice during the week and it's more like a menu. You might have a bunch of plays for 1st and 10. A bunch for less than 5 yards etc etc

Kliff has made some bad play calls. That wildcat crap in the RZ was just a clown show.

But also, Kyler is just killing the script like Nicolas Cage doing Shakespeare.

We say "Kliff sucks" but when you see Kyler missing easy 3rd down conversions with bad decisions what can he do? Chances are if Kyler makes the plays he should make none of us are dunking on Kliff so much.
 

Shane

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We say "Kliff sucks" but when you see Kyler missing easy 3rd down conversions with bad decisions what can he do? Chances are if Kyler makes the plays he should make none of us are dunking on Kliff so much.

Such a good and realistic point as well
 

BritCard

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I just figure the Rams realized by formation it was going to 1 on 1 and the only CB they trusted 1 on 1 at that point was Ramsey.

I agree with Brit by the way that's actually a good thing as I said in another post you should have seen Ramsey bored out of his mind in this game as we constantly schemed him 1 on 1 and threw away from him. But Kliff always wants to outsmart people.

And 100% Kyler should have gone the other way but I don't think Kliff set up that play to scheme Ramsey away from the ball I think he set that play up to get Green 1 on 1, I just don't know why he hasn't beaten anybody this year.

Even if you're right Russ and that play is designed to get green 1 v 1 with Kendrick (which I don't think any DC would ever do but I digress) when Kyler sees the coverage he should switch away to Ertz or Brown.

No team has plays that are only going one way. The QB always has multiple options and it's up to him to choose. He keeps choosing poorly.
 

BritCard

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Why was Whitaker playing over Mullen? I know Mullen doesn't know the D fully yet but then, it seems Whitaker doesn't either.

And I don't care what the Simmons situation is. Vigil, Niemann and Vallejo are all garbage.
 

Chopper0080

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Even if you're right Russ and that play is designed to get green 1 v 1 with Kendrick (which I don't think any DC would ever do but I digress) when Kyler sees the coverage he should switch away to Ertz or Brown.

No team has plays that are only going one way. The QB always has multiple options and it's up to him to choose. He keeps choosing poorly.
I can't agree with this more. A playcaller can only make a QB look so good but a QB can make a playcaller look much worse than he is.

A better QB identifies Ramsey on Green and moves on to another matchup within the play or audibles to a play that takes advantage of the alignment. 100% on Kyler here.
 

Russ Smith

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Even if you're right Russ and that play is designed to get green 1 v 1 with Kendrick (which I don't think any DC would ever do but I digress) when Kyler sees the coverage he should switch away to Ertz or Brown.

No team has plays that are only going one way. The QB always has multiple options and it's up to him to choose. He keeps choosing poorly.


Again I agree Kyler shouldn't have thrown there but of course the play is designed to get Green 1 on 1, he's the only eligible receiver on that side of the ball that's by design they want 1 on 1. if the Rams play a safety over the top it would be a shock.

I'm not absolving Kyler there seems to be a push here that you have to blame Kyler exclusively. What I'm saying is given the limitations we already have with Kyler reading defenses and changing plays, having a play caller as bad as Kliff is just makes him much worse. That's why he's been so much more effective AFTER the scripted plays IMO
 

nashman

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Why was Whitaker playing over Mullen? I know Mullen doesn't know the D fully yet but then, it seems Whitaker doesn't either.

And I don't care what the Simmons situation is. Vigil, Niemann and Vallejo are all garbage.
Because that’s what our D coordinator does he plays guys HE FEELS know his stupid ass defense rather than the young guys who should be playing. I mean if the guys are gonna suck on D might as well be giving the young guys trial by fire rather than sitting them it’s so stupid and why Vance needs to be gone!
 

Chopper0080

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Seems we have to do that a lot.

I wish there was a stat on the most audibles in a season.
I would be 100% on Kliff if he didn't allow Kyler to audible or ad-lib. However, that isn't the case and so I stand on the belief that what happens on the field is 100% Kyler's decision because Kliff doesn't restrict him.
 

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