Suns Off-season Thread

[AzStevenCal]

Now that I know that players were sick, to me that changes everything--the situation was abnormal. Therefore, I have no idea whether the Suns should trade Ayton or make any major trades. Perhaps minor adjustments and free-agent signings would suffice, such as tweaking their system and dumping Cameron Payne. Well, and of course find a power forward who rebounds better than Jae Crowder.

Yes, I said dump Payne. I suspect that his good year in 2020-21 was an outlier, and his 2021-22 performance is actually his baseline. Let the Suns figure out whether that's correct; but even if I'm wrong, do they really want a backup point guard who isn't a strong playmaker or a very good defender? Someone here explained to me that Payne is one of those drive-and-kick types; also left me the impression that his defense isn't notable. Aaron Holiday's is probably better. Sign or trade for a better backup, who can possibly replace Paul when he retires.

Payne when he's healthy is a nice weapon to have in your arsenal. But he's not healthy enough for him to be our only effective backup guard and this was highlighted by the frequent ineffectiveness of Shamet.

IMO we need to add more help rather than get rid of one of the few players we have that can create offense for himself and others. If Monty isn't going to use Holiday, we need to add at least one more rotation guard and probably two (assuming we get rid of Payton).

 

[Covert Rain]

Yeah, we have talked about a lot of players but I'm inclined to keep Payne unless unless another team trades us an upgrade and they want a point guard in return. Even then I would be reluctant to trade Payne because he is capable of starting.

His shooting percentage was down last season compared to his previous two seasons with the Suns which was a disappointment.

You had me until Payne is capable of starting. He is not and never will be a capable starter. Is he a body you could throw out there? Sure but if you do it just means you don't have an adequate people behind your starter. He should be 3rd string if we had a legitimate backup. He is a serviceable backup at most.

 

[Mainstreet]

It could come back to haunt the Suns but give me Rachaun Holmes, Davion Mitchell and #4 from the Kings for Deandre Ayton.

The salaries work.

 

[Mainstreet]

You had me until Payne is capable of starting. He is not and never will be a capable starter. Is he a body you could throw out there? Sure but if you do it just means you don't have an adequate people behind your starter. He should be 3rd string if we had a legitimate backup. He is a serviceable backup at most.

Capable of starting does not mean I'm counting on Payne as a starter.

I'd want any third point guard on the Suns being able to start if necessary. Payton and Holiday were not in that category as far as the Suns were concerned.

 

[Covert Rain]

It could come back to haunt the Suns but give me Rachaun Holmes, Davion Mitchell and #4 from the Kings for Deandre Ayton.

The salaries work.

Basically, you are trading for Holmes (10/6 guy) and Mitchell who is a 10/4 guy. Mitchell almost makes it a serviceable trade but there is typically a major drop off after pick #3 and this draft isn't very good IMO. I hope we could do better than this but maybe we can't.

IMO, I think the Suns need a 3 team trade with Ayton to get close to his value.

 

[somethingshesaid]

Payne when he's healthy is a nice weapon to have in your arsenal. But he's not healthy enough for him to be our only effective backup guard

Payne has injuries/health problems? I just learned something new. Like the CV outbreak and the so-called choke, this would completely scrap my evaluation of Payne--if it was for health issues that he played poorly. Did he sustain some serious injury I don't know about, perhaps before I started observing the Suns during the 2021 playoffs?

 

[Mainstreet]

Basically, you are trading for Holmes (10/6 guy) and Mitchell who is a 10/4 guy. Mitchell almost makes it a serviceable trade but there is typically a major drop off after pick #3 and this draft isn't very good IMO. I hope we could do better than this but maybe we can't.

IMO, I think the Suns need a 3 team trade with Ayton to get close to his value.

I'm counting on Davion Mitchell to be the PGOTF in that trade, viewing Holmes as the same type player as Capela and hoping the Suns get a good player at any position at #4. There should be a talented player at that pick.

 

[AzStevenCal]

What, Payne has injury problems? I just learned something new.

Well, I assume you're kidding but yes, he gets injured far too often to really count on him as your primary backup. Especially when he is backing up a point guard approaching the end of his career. But that doesn't mean he can't have real value for us, we just need more help than him and Shamet.

I should point out too that many of his injuries are the kind that can be played through but linger as a result. And like Booker, he just isn't as effective playing at less than 100%.

 

[Covert Rain]

I'm counting on Davion Mitchell to be the PGOTF in that trade, viewing Holmes as the same type player as Capela and hoping the Suns get a good player at any position at #4. There should be a talented player at that pick.

In this draft we would be lucky to get even a high potential guy IMO. Honestly, I don't put much stock in draft picks as part of any trade after the top 3. So, the guys you get in return are way more important. IMO, even if Mitchell turns into a PGOTF, it doesn't do much IMO to improve our FC.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It could come back to haunt the Suns but give me Rachaun Holmes, Davion Mitchell and #4 from the Kings for Deandre Ayton.

The salaries work.

We parted ways with Richaun Holmes when he got caught smoking pot, I'm not sure this franchise is going to get back in bed with a player who's been accused of physically abusing his wife and his child.

I think he's the perfect backup big man but he appears to have too much baggage right now and I'm not certain he'd willingly return to a bench role.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

We parted ways with Richaun Holmes when he got caught smoking pot, I'm not sure this franchise is going to get back in bed with a player who's been accused of physically abusing his wife and his child.

I think he's the perfect backup big man but he appears to have too much baggage right now and I'm not certain he'd willingly return to a bench role.

Holmes was awarded full custody of his kid by multiple judges, so looks like that might have been cleared up.

I'd love to get Holmes, but sure as hell not at the cost of Ayton.

 

[Mainstreet]

We parted ways with Richaun Holmes when he got caught smoking pot, I'm not sure this franchise is going to get back in bed with a player who's been accused of physically abusing his wife and his child.

I think he's the perfect backup big man but he appears to have too much baggage right now and I'm not certain he'd willingly return to a bench role.

I understand Richaun Holmes was awarded sole custody of his son by the court and the NBA suspended testing for marijuana.

After being accused by ex-wife of domestic violence toward son, Kings' Richaun Holmes gains custody of son

Multiple judges have granted Holmes custody of his son.

nba.nbcsports.com

 

[Finito]

Collins would definitely be an upgrade over what the Suns have at power forward but he has somewhat of a slight (narrow) build.

As you note, he is not strong physical presence inside on offense or defense although he puts up decent stats.

Crowder is a damn mess. When he’s bad he’s super bad and his defense has gotten really overrated. When was the last time Crowder really put the clamps on somebody.

In a dream world we keep Ayton and add Collins.

But yes we desperately need an upgrade at PF

 

[Mainstreet]

In this draft we would be lucky to get even a high potential guy IMO. Honestly, I don't put much stock in draft picks as part of any trade after the top 3. So, the guys you get in return are way more important. IMO, even if Mitchell turns into a PGOTF, it doesn't do much IMO to improve our FC.

PGOTF fills at least one need. It's better than having two holes in the roster.

If the Suns received a draft pick in trade, they could use it along with one of their own future picks and expiring contracts for a position of need.

 

[Mainstreet]

Crowder is a damn mess. When he’s bad he’s super bad and his defense has gotten really overrated. When was the last time Crowder really put the clamps on somebody.

In a dream world we keep Ayton and add Collins.

But yes we desperately need an upgrade at PF

We agree, the Suns could use a better starter at power forward.

The Suns could offer expiring contracts and draft picks for Collins but he will be in demand.

 

[Hoop Head]

PGOTF fills at least one need. It's better than having two holes in the roster.

If the Suns received a draft pick in trade, they could use it along with one of their own future picks and expiring contracts for a position of need.

PGOTF isn't a need. It's more of a luxury for a contending team.

We need to replace Ayton with more than a prospect who won't even start for another year or two or that's a colossal waste of assets.

 

[Matt L]

I don't think we would need to trade ayton for Collins, I think the hawks are trying to get off that contract

 

[AzStevenCal]

Holmes was awarded full custody of his kid by multiple judges, so looks like that might have been cleared up.

I'd love to get Holmes, but sure as hell not at the cost of Ayton.

I'm glad to hear that, I always liked him and loved the support his mother always gave him. And yeah, no interest as a replacement for DA. I would like to see him play behind and occasionally with Deandre.

 

[Mainstreet]

PGOTF isn't a need. It's more of a luxury for a contending team.

We need to replace Ayton with more than a prospect who won't even start for another year or two or that's a colossal waste of assets.

Davion Mitchell could play now. With Paul being susceptible to injury it's hard not to look at it as a need.

Now if you are drafting a point guard, that's different.

Holmes could start as well.

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't think we would need to trade ayton for Collins, I think the hawks are trying to get off that contract

The Suns have the expiring contracts and can offer future draft picks although Atlanta may get better offers.

 

[Covert Rain]

Davion Mitchell could play now. With Paul being susceptible to injury it's hard not to look at it as a need.

Now if you are drafting a point guard, that's different.

Holmes could start as well.

Holmes is a downgrade over Ayton. To me you strengthen the guard position and weaken our FC with this trade. This doesn't address the hole at PF but maybe he is a replacement if you don't resign McGee or Biz. More moves would have to be made. If you could get Holmes without giving up Ayton that would be a different story.

 

[Mainstreet]

Holmes is not a major upgrade over Ayton and you would be subtracting Ayton to boot. To me you strengthen the guard position and weaken our FC with this trade. More moves would have to be made. If you could get Holmes without giving up Ayton that would be a different story.

My preference is to keep Ayton. I'm talking about options if the Suns did a sign and trade with him.

Holmes is mostly a center. He is not going to help the power forward position. Also the Suns are not going to invest $11 million in a backup center.

 

[Covert Rain]

My preference is to keep Ayton. I'm talking about options if the Suns did a sign and trade with him.

Holmes is mostly a center. He is not going to help the power forward position. Also the Suns are not going to invest $11 million in a backup center.

That's sort of what I am saying. When I break down the trade, you solidify the backup PG position, don't address the PF position, and is downgrade at the Center position assuming we resign McGee and/or Bizz. I don't see how this really helps the team get better unless you are pinning all your hopes on not only the draft pick but the draft pick helping during this title run (which isn't likely).

The more and more I see trades like this the more it puts me in the keep Ayton camp. At the end of the day, unless trading Ayton gets you to be a more well rounded team I don't see the point. So I am agree with your preference if this is all we can do.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't think we would need to trade ayton for Collins, I think the hawks are trying to get off that contract

yeah... if they wanted to really win, the solution would be to add Collins TO Ayton on the front-line... but there's no way we take on that kind of salary.

I actually think he'd be a great 4 for this team. Maybe move Cam J, one of our expiring "bigs" (Crowder/Dario) and a pick.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Run it back with a wing that can facilitate the offense seems like far and away the best option at this point.

We likely have another year before we have to retool around Paul's departure - why not go for it all? I don't see any super teams, and we might not have a better chance for a long time. (Esp when that Booker super max kicks in!)