Chase Edmonds claims “culture issues” with Cardinals???

[Krangodnzr]

People can crap on PP21 for his comments, but is he really that far off? Dude was in the building for 10 years thru 2 GMs and 4 coaches. There aren’t many more aware of the culture

I think he's partially correct, but he's a finger pointer, not a thumb pointer.

I don't really listen to selfish divas much.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Ironic that Chase didn't mention the Dolphins as one of the teams with a great culture...

I don't take much that happens on PP's podcast seriously. He's obviously slanted against the Cards and tries to direct the content to fit his narrative.

PP is that former great athlete who still thinks he's great. Let's be honest, Peterson hasn't really been good for about four seasons now, if not five.

Keim definitely sucks for the most part and Bidwill might be a meddling owner.

 

[SoonerLou]

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I mean he essentially used Andy Isabella as an example.

Green and Ertz are in their 30s. He's acting like Ertz/Green are the same guys from 2016.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

If anyone wants to compare current cultures...The Cardinals star who wants a new contract hasn't demanded a trade. Yes, he did what kids do to get attention, but he has spoken publicly about staying in AZ. The Niners star who wants a new contract has demanded a trade, and let his brother scorch Earth on his social media (and it's not like Larry's brother and father, where Larry made it known they didn't speak for him).

 

[RON_IN_OC]

I mean he essentially used Andy Isabella as an example.

Green and Ertz are in their 30s. He's acting like Ertz/Green are the same guys from 2016.

Yes on AI, but the point is the team has at least attempted to trade, sign and draft players who they thought could help Murray elevate his game. Obviously there are hits and misses, but at least they are trying.

 

[JohnnyCakes]

PP is that former great athlete who still thinks he's great. Let's be honest, Peterson hasn't really been good for about four seasons now, if not five.

Keim definitely sucks for the most part and Bidwill might be a meddling owner.

Let's be honest, he was terrible after he got caught cheating. Guy is a fraud.

 

[BritCard]

I mean he essentially used Andy Isabella as an example.

Green and Ertz are in their 30s. He's acting like Ertz/Green are the same guys from 2016.

Ertz 52.2 yards per game for us. Had he been with us all year that would have been 887 yards. Which would have been the 3rd most in a season (with 1 more game)

And he did that dropping into a new scheme he had to learn mid season with a QB he didn't know.

That could easily have been 1000+ yards with more time in the system. We need to stop talking about him like he's Antonio Gates.

Same with Green. He's not peak AJ Green anymore but he was the 32nd ranked WR last year playing as a WR2/WR3 most of the time. He's not trash.

 

[BritCard]

Let's be honest, he was terrible after he got caught cheating. Guy is a fraud.

He was cheating because he knew he'd dropped off. Players that still feel capable don't feel the need to take PED's.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Ertz and Green are solid, IMHO. Not sure why they get so much slander. Those are guys you know you can depend on. I wish we'd have made a move to get Ertz even sooner but am really glad he is here now. Green had the one play where he looked bad against the Packers, but stuff like that happens. I think it was on that same drive or earlier in that game that he had a 25-yard grab for a big gain when we needed it. Hopefully, with one season under his belt in this system and with a healthy Hopkins he can shine a bit more this season as a WR2.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Let's be honest, he was terrible after he got caught cheating. Guy is a fraud.

Ive wondered if PP got away with for years and finally got caught...

 

[JohnnyCakes]

Ive wondered if PP got away with for years and finally got caught...

I think you just have to assume he was

 

[SoonerLou]

Yes on AI, but the point is the team has at least attempted to trade, sign and draft players who they thought could help Murray elevate his game. Obviously there are hits and misses, but at least they are trying.

Schwartz took at is them not saying they arent trying. When its really more about they just arent good enough at it. Every team in the NFL is trying.

Ertz 52.2 yards per game for us. Had he been with us all year that would have been 887 yards. Which would have been the 3rd most in a season (with 1 more game)

And he did that dropping into a new scheme he had to learn mid season with a QB he didn't know.

That could easily have been 1000+ yards with more time in the system. We need to stop talking about him like he's Antonio Gates.

Same with Green. He's not peak AJ Green anymore but he was the 32nd ranked WR last year playing as a WR2/WR3 most of the time. He's not trash.

The problem with AJ and Ertz is essentially the same problem with the Lakers in basketball. Its not that they don't have the pedigree of great to solid play in their careers. Its not that they're bad or washed. However, their age negates some of what they bring to the table.

AJ was trash with the Bengals. Removing him helped take their offense to another level. Obviously, Chase is great. However,

I think having Kyler is what elevates AJ at this point of his career. Because he's such a good deep ball thrower. However, in terms of timing routes, legit run after catch plays, there are some limitations to his game as he reaches 34.

Ertz was just decent on the Eagles the last couple of years. Goedert is much better.

I know we're in the PFF hate phase of ASFN.

However, Goedert was 88.9 on PFF who was missing time/reps to force the slower and much worse blocking Ertz on the field. PFF of 66.9 when combing his time on the Eagles and Cards.

The cost + age + production didn't add up for the Bengals and Eagles. Yet, it adds up for us.

There's nothing wrong with having those guys. The issue is we dont have the young talent to make them supplement our offense not be needed as much.

Yada Yada Yada. If Hopkins gets hurt again we're screwed.

 

[bankybruce]

Ive wondered if PP got away with for years and finally got caught...

He took a big step back when he went public about being diabetic. Then he had a bounce back season and got caught right after that. I truly believe he started taking those PEDs because of the diabetes and needed them to be what he was before. He still cheated, but I really think he did it after he became diabetic.

Cardinals' Peterson clarifies diabetes diagnosis

In a series of tweets Monday night, Cardinals cornerback Patrick Peterson clarified that he has Type 2 diabetes, not Type 1 as he had said earlier in the day.

es.pn

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

we had guys looking for a big payday. They didnt like what we offered, or that they were not offered. Most of them got the same or less elsewhere . except the guys who we just couldnt afford to keep if we wanted to.

former employees often have sour grapes when they dont get the money they think they deserve....probably worse when you then have to pack up and move across the country.

its also likely some of those former employees were a part of the culture the team is trying to change.
when the mgt and coaches are saying things like...we need to bring in good leadership....we need guys that aint afraid to tackle...etc...it tells you the players they let go were not those guys.

personally. I question the character of any man who comes out and publicly badmouths a former employer....unless he has a good reason...I mean, Boomer Esiason being benched so the team wouldnt have to pay him his million dollar escalator bonus,..well, that was pretty bad.... But even with those sour grapes his schtick of always bashing the team got old real fast.
these guys are supposed to be professionals and they should carry themselves as such. Often times that simply means keeping your mouth shut.

We attack the players who leave for more money, same money, and less money. But how frequently have we heard former players speak well of the organization?

I ask because I can’t recall hearing former players of other teams badmouth their organizations so directly as do ours. They might say “I’m happy to be in a winning situation” but it’s not often they directly attack their old club - at least not in the volume that our former players seem to. Maybe I miss all that as I’m more focused on the cards so I pick up on their news more, but I watch and read a lot about the league in general. So I ask, if it’s much heavier with former cardinals than players of other teams is it the organization or do we just have a penchant for drafting/signing inherently malcontented players (that question is really meant to be rhetorical because actual consideration of the latter is flat out stupid).

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

New to the forums. Hello all!

I'm not absolving the Cardinals from their failures, but it's hard to take Edmonds seriously when he talks about culture and signs a deal with the Dolphins. Just saying....

I'll never understand why people feel the need to bash their former employer. I look at it as a sign of weakness and an inability to accept responsibility. 9 times out of 10 I will immediately dismiss a candidate based on his negative response when asked about his last job. Leaders appreciate opportunity and take responsibility. "I thank the Cardinals for everything they have done for me. Im looking forward to accepting a new challenge and doing whatever I can to help this franchise be the best it can be."

Interesting. One of the first questions I ask is what they didn’t like about previously employers/employment. And I want them to be honest not give me a fluff answer. An individual who doesn’t have a real reason is either lying or was canned for reasons I’ll probably never know. I want to know if our construct will be a good fit for what they’re seeking. Good employment is a two way street - you have to find a candidate that fits what you need but you’ve got to be a good fit for what they desire in order for it to work long term.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Schwartz took at is them not saying they arent trying. When its really more about they just arent good enough at it. Every team in the NFL is trying.

The problem with AJ and Ertz is essentially the same problem with the Lakers in basketball. Its not that they don't have the pedigree of great to solid play in their careers. Its not that they're bad or washed. However, their age negates some of what they bring to the table.

The Lakers issues are fit, not age. In a vacuum all of those players are still playing pretty well (when healthy), but not as a cohesive unit.

AJ was trash with the Bengals. Removing him helped take their offense to another level. Obviously, Chase is great. However,

I think having Kyler is what elevates AJ at this point of his career. Because he's such a good deep ball thrower. However, in terms of timing routes, legit run after catch plays, there are some limitations to his game as he reaches 34.

AJ can still beat people with routes, he just doesn't have the speed he once had. Still good enough.

Ertz was just decent on the Eagles the last couple of years. Goedert is much better.

I know we're in the PFF hate phase of ASFN.

However, Goedert was 88.9 on PFF who was missing time/reps to force the slower and much worse blocking Ertz on the field. PFF of 66.9 when combing his time on the Eagles and Cards.

The cost + age + production didn't add up for the Bengals and Eagles. Yet, it adds up for us.

Ertz still has a lot of value. Green's production if he matches last year, will be an extreme value at $ 6 million or less.

There's nothing wrong with having those guys. The issue is we dont have the young talent to make them supplement our offense not be needed as much.

Yada Yada Yada. If Hopkins gets hurt again we're screwed.

I agree on the age factor. This team farted away a great opportunity at the end of the Arians era to reload. Keim just wasn't (isn't) the guy we need to manage the roster.

 

[Krangodnzr]

We attack the players who leave for more money, same money, and less money. But how frequently have we heard former players speak well of the organization?

I ask because I can’t recall hearing former players of other teams badmouth their organizations so directly as do ours. They might say “I’m happy to be in a winning situation” but it’s not often they directly attack their old club - at least not in the volume that our former players seem to. Maybe I miss all that as I’m more focused on the cards so I pick up on their news more, but I watch and read a lot about the league in general. So I ask, if it’s much heavier with former cardinals than players of other teams is it the organization or do we just have a penchant for drafting/signing inherently malcontented players (that question is really meant to be rhetorical because actual consideration of the latter is flat out stupid).

I don't know...I don't pay attention to other teams like I pay attention to the Cardinals. You do see players do it for other teams as well.

We know the dysfunction on this team pretty well. I do believe they have taken tremendous steps forward since the Bill Bidwill era, but we do consistently hear that Keim isn't straight with players. That we do know.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Just two years ago that idea of the Suns having a winning "culture" would have been trashed.

With good reason. They hadn't proven anything.

What makes a winning culture is .... winning.

Wrong. It's the people!!!! The Suns win because they brought in James Jones and Monty Williams, and topped it off by bringing in the best leader in the NBA, Chris Paul. The Suns didn't start winning on accident - they win because they put the right people in place, and they have standards that are set.

You seriously can't understand the difference between the sustainable and very real success of the Suns and their culture, vs. the hot start flash in the pan Cards?

ITS THE LEADERSHIP. The Suns have it, and the Cards clearly do not.

You can back through that part of the season and see all kinds of quotes from players about how great the culture was, playing for Kliff etc.

Everyone loves to play for coach bro because he doesn't challenge them, and he lets them do what they want! When that is paired with winning, it's the ultimate combination. Everyone knows that combo is a mirage though. Once things get serious, people like Kliff and the Cards fade, every year.

I can't take this too seriously.

If you don't think there is a fundamental difference between having a leadership group of Jones/Monty/CP vs. Keim/Kliff/Kyler, I don't know what to tell you. The Suns are brothers, and are taken to another level because of their culture - the Cards are actively harmed by their culture.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

We have good players, that's how we were 10-2 and finished 11-5.

He seems to want an O line made of 1st round picks and elite WR's at every spot.

Well, 11-6 and 0-1 in the playoffs. But who is counting those two additional losses . . .

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

We have good players, that's how we were 10-2 and finished 11-5.

He seems to want an O line made of 1st round picks and elite WR's at every spot.

What QB wouldn’t want that?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

lol no, because it's impossible.

This Org has done a bunch to build around Kyler, as much as any team has done with any QB.

They are trying to build a winning culture by actually winning, which they did last year. In fact Kyler was handed a 9-2 team with a winning culture on his return from injury and promptly crapped the bed and made it an 11-6 team and laid one of the biggest eggs in the playoffs of all time.

Lol. He was “handed” that team? He didn’t play a role in it? And he “made it” an 11-6 team with no assistance from the other 50 players and coaches? Cmon man, this is a poor take.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Ertz and Green are solid, IMHO. Not sure why they get so much slander. Those are guys you know you can depend on. I wish we'd have made a move to get Ertz even sooner but am really glad he is here now. Green had the one play where he looked bad against the Packers, but stuff like that happens. I think it was on that same drive or earlier in that game that he had a 25-yard grab for a big gain when we needed it. Hopefully, with one season under his belt in this system and with a healthy Hopkins he can shine a bit more this season as a WR2.

They are solid, and you may be able to depend on Ertz, but I don't know how you can say you can depend on Green. I was terrified every time the ball went his way.

The problem with Ertz and Green is mostly that Kyler needs better weapons. Running it back minus Chase/Kirk, without adding additional weapons doesn't seem to be enough if we seriously want to compete.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't know...I don't pay attention to other teams like I pay attention to the Cardinals. You do see players do it for other teams as well.

We know the dysfunction on this team pretty well. I do believe they have taken tremendous steps forward since the Bill Bidwill era, but we do consistently hear that Keim isn't straight with players. That we do know.

Agree with all of this. I just don’t seem to hear the consistency of attacks on other teams as much as I do about the cards. I’m sure some of that is my greater attention to all things cards, but it seems more an outlier than the norm.

And yes the team has moved forward since the bill era, but the smoke about Keim’s poor communication is too thick to ignore.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Agree with all of this. I just don’t seem to hear the consistency of attacks on other teams as much as I do about the cards. I’m sure some of that is my greater attention to all things cards, but it seems more an outlier than the norm.

And yes the team has moved forward since the bill era, but the smoke about Keim’s poor communication is too thick to ignore.

I take some of it with a grain of salt. Honey Badger? Dudes play fell off a cliff. Team approached him about a pay cut and he balked and was released. Teams do that stuff all of the time. What I think MIGHT be happening is that Keim tries to be cool with the players and treat them like he is boys with them and then he pulls the same moves other GMs do as well. That kind of approach can undermine your position as a leader.

Coming off like we aren't just leader-subordinate, and then coming around and pulling a move that affects your livelihood can piss people off.

I think we are seeing two things at play: 1) The Cardinals historically have a bad reputation. 2) Buddy GM has inappropriate relationships with players.

 

[cardpa]

What's the one thing that changes the culture on a team? That turns a losing franchise into a winning one?

That's right, it's a franchise QB.

Kyler should be the one changing the culture. Like Burrow at the Bengals.

While Kyler isn't the one complaining that has been the rumor all offseason. And that's the problem. Kyler want's a team of superstars like OU so he can win by just showing up. When Kyler is supposed to be the one elevating everyone with his hard work, leadership and on field play. That's what earns then the big bucks in contract talks and probably why the Cards are a little reticent. Because they haven't seen this in action.

This a hundred times over.