Snap Counts and Thoughts - @CHI

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Ehhh I get it to an extent… But were already to week 14 in the season we already know that Collins isn’t playing it’s spelled out for us. We also know that we have a top 5 D and are sitting at 10-2 without him playing…. The constant weekly hand wringing over it like it’s some big shocking surprise is a little silly imo. He’s followed a similar path to our last 1st round pick. At this point but it is what it is. If you guys want to panic and keep worrying about it incessantly each week the new snap counts come out have at it I guess.

“Panic?” Lol. Okay.

 

[Red on White]

My overall point is that the intelligence is there and the athleticism is there but the fundamentals are not which along with Zaven's struggles point more to coaching than the player.

Do gifted athletes like Zaven Collins (and Simmons for that matter) get left to their own devices in high school/college?

Just let the physical freaks go and make whatever plays they can. Let them play on instinct rather than have constraints.

So they do their own thing rather than learn to be part of a complex system.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I laugh every week over all the Zaven posts/worry. I hated the pick but he's not going to play over Hicks, nor should he. Hicks is the unquestioned leader of the defense and has been playing very well.

Want to lose a defense fast? Play a not ready rookie over the team leader, who's playing well for a top defense, just because he was selected in round 1. If the Cards were 3-9 and mired at the bottom of standings. Collins would be playing more. Battling for the #1 seed in the league's toughest division and playing a clearly lesser player just to get him snaps and possibly cost you a game is asinine.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I laugh every week over all the Zaven posts/worry. I hated the pick but he's not going to play over Hicks, nor should he. Hicks is the unquestioned leader of the defense and has been playing very well.

Want to lose a defense fast? Play a not ready rookie over the team leader, who's playing well for a top defense, just because he was selected in round 1. If the Cards were 3-9 and mired at the bottom of standings. Collins would be playing more. Battling for the #1 seed in the league's toughest division and playing a clearly lesser player just to get him snaps and possibly cost you a game is asinine.

Why about not playing over vallejo and walker - which is what we are really taking about here? Haven’t seen anyone complain about not playing over hicks in weeks.

 

[PDXChris]

Why about not playing over vallejo and walker - which is what we are really taking about here? Haven’t seen anyone complain about not playing over hicks in weeks.

Vallejo and Walker have specific jobs and for all we know Collins is only focused on what Hicks does in the event Hicks goes down. It makes perfect sense to me to have him focused on him eventually taking over for Hicks instead of learning sub packages.

This is all an assumption just like what everyone says or thinks on this subject. The one thing that can't be disputed is thst Hicks is killing it and should be playing.

 

[QuebecCard]

Because it's a passing league and our pass rush and secondary play have been great?

This is part of the argument for why it's completely insane that we invested high 1st round picks in ILBs in consecutive seasons. WHHHHYYYYYY????

How are tight ends doing against Simmons?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Vallejo and Walker have specific jobs and for all we know Collins is only focused on what Hicks does in the event Hicks goes down. It makes perfect sense to me to have him focused on him eventually taking over for Hicks instead of learning sub packages.

This is all an assumption just like what everyone says or thinks on this subject. The one thing that can't be disputed is thst Hicks is killing it and should be playing.

This is maybe the best argument (and yes, as stated, complete conjecture) I’ve heard so far. But I still find it difficult to believe that these sub packages are so unique that our physician specimen can’t learn those assignments while not seeing the field generally.

Understand, I’m not in the trash Collins house. But I do understand why people have concerns. Without much additional information those concerns seems to be rooted in reasonable basis.

 

[CardLogic]

To compare Simmons as a rookie, vs. Collins as a rookie; snap counts or otherwise; is ineffectual. Yes, they both are labeled as ILB's, however they play largely different positions; and if you don't understand this any additional discussion on the topic is futile.
As bankybruce inferred, Collins is intended as Hicks replacement, this was indicated by the club in pre-season comments! It just happened that the off-season and pre-season actions of the club served to fire-up Jordan Hicks, such that Hicks is having his best season so far as a Cardinal.

Additionally, the jump from defensive signal-caller at Tulsa to Vance Joseph's Cardinal's defense is greater than anyone, other than perhaps Joseph, was expecting.

As I view it, the timeline for Collins ascension has required modification, not abandonment. As it is said, "This is a good problem. . . "

 

[Stout]

Try to make excuses for Collins or wind through labyrinthine justifications, the fact is he's been a big disappointment as a 1st-round pick and is far behind where even Simmons was as a rookie.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Try to make excuses for Collins or wind through labyrinthine justifications, the fact is he's been a big disappointment as a 1st-round pick and is far behind where even Simmons was as a rookie.

Did you consider DJ Humphries a disappointment?

 

[PDXChris]

Try to make excuses for Collins or wind through labyrinthine justifications, the fact is he's been a big disappointment as a 1st-round pick and is far behind where even Simmons was as a rookie.

So you want to sit the Defensive Player of the Week for Collins? And by your standards, Aaron Rodgers was a big disappointment since he played 59 snaps his rookie, second and third seasons combined and he was supposed to be the top pick. Before you say, but Brett Favre! He stunk those first 2 seasons.

Here is Rodgers rookie year with Favre.

You must be registered for see images attach

The reality is we have no clue why Collins isn't playing or what he'll be.

 

[Stout]

Did you consider DJ Humphries a disappointment?

LOL Do you consider DJ Humphries to have taken a normal path to becoming a starting LT in the league as a 1st-round pick? Apples to oranges, and you very well know it.

Hit the reset button and try again.

 

[Stout]

So you want to sit the Defensive Player of the Week for Collins? And by your standards, Aaron Rodgers was a big disappointment since he played 59 snaps his rookie, second and third seasons combined and he was supposed to be the top pick. Before you say, but Brett Favre! He stunk those first 2 seasons.

Here is Rodgers rookie year with Favre.

You must be registered for see images attach

The reality is we have no clue why Collins isn't playing or what he'll be.

Holy putting words in my mouth, Batman! It's not about Collins starting; it's about Collins being unable to take snaps away from the bottom-of-the-roster ILB position players, as Ouchie has pointed out.

Let's put some words in your mouth, banky style: @bankybruce has predicted Collins will be just as good as Rodgers! See, I can also change the goal posts

 

[Stout]

That's two strikes. But, go on, keep telling us why we should be happy with how Collins is progressing, or, rather, why we shouldn't be unhappy with why he isn't progressing.

 

[PDXChris]

Holy putting words in my mouth, Batman! It's not about Collins starting; it's about Collins being unable to take snaps away from the bottom-of-the-roster ILB position players, as Ouchie has pointed out.

Let's put some words in your mouth, banky style: @bankybruce has predicted Collins will be just as good as Rodgers! See, I can also change the goal posts

Nope, you're just flat wrong here. You are claiming Collins can't make his way in the field and he's a disappointment. I gave you an example of a player who couldn't do the same and was behind , at the time, an atrocious player. Sorry that it does fit your narrative here, but your narrative is wrong because we have no clue why he's not on the field. All we know, the only actual fact here, is the guy he was supposed to replace is playing his butt and having a career year.

 

[PACardsFan]

I laugh every week over all the Zaven posts/worry. I hated the pick but he's not going to play over Hicks, nor should he. Hicks is the unquestioned leader of the defense and has been playing very well.

Want to lose a defense fast? Play a not ready rookie over the team leader, who's playing well for a top defense, just because he was selected in round 1. If the Cards were 3-9 and mired at the bottom of standings. Collins would be playing more. Battling for the #1 seed in the league's toughest division and playing a clearly lesser player just to get him snaps and possibly cost you a game is asinine.

Home run post!!!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Did you consider DJ Humphries a disappointment?

Considering we were kinda less to believe he was drafted a year early based on projection and told Collins would start before camp even opened, maybe a bad comparison.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

So you want to sit the Defensive Player of the Week for Collins? And by your standards, Aaron Rodgers was a big disappointment since he played 59 snaps his rookie, second and third seasons combined and he was supposed to be the top pick. Before you say, but Brett Favre! He stunk those first 2 seasons.

Here is Rodgers rookie year with Favre.

You must be registered for see images attach

The reality is we have no clue why Collins isn't playing or what he'll be.

I wonder why everyone but a single poster is avoiding the question of “are you concerned he’s not playing ahead of Vallejo and walker?”


Btw not really wondering bc there’s no real good answer to it so avoidance is the best tactic.

 

[PACardsFan]

Considering we were kinda less to believe he was drafted a year early based on projection and told Collins would start before camp even opened, maybe a bad comparison.

Understood, but I don’t think that was ever, ever the case. Keim was obviously lighting a fire under Hicks, who hadn’t played well in 2020. Knowing Keim like I do, I believe that to be his intention.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Understood, but I don’t think that was ever, ever the case. Keim was obviously lighting a fire under Hicks, who hadn’t played well in 2020. Knowing Keim like I do, I believe that to be his intention.

Holy crap that’s some serious next level left field pull it out of your backside made up conjecture. Please tell me another time keim said the opposite of what he meant in the press, purposefully just playing mental checkers with players motivation. Sorry man, I think this could be your worst take ever. We all have one. I think this is yours.

 

[PACardsFan]

Holy crap that’s some serious next level left field pull it out of your backside made up conjecture. Please tell me another time keim said the opposite of what he meant in the press, purposefully just playing mental checkers with players motivation. Sorry man, I think this could be your worst take ever. We all have one. I think this is yours.

That’s your opinion & that‘s fine. I won’t delve deeper than that.

 

[kerouac9]

Understood, but I don’t think that was ever, ever the case. Keim was obviously lighting a fire under Hicks, who hadn’t played well in 2020. Knowing Keim like I do, I believe that to be his intention.

The 15th overall pick is a high price to pay to motivate an off-ball linebacker.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The 15th overall pick is a high price to pay to motivate an off-ball linebacker.

Uh, right?

 

[Stout]

Oh, man, the hardcore Collins defense on here is hilarious. It's like it's WWI on the board and posters are desperately trying to defend every inch of turf.

Fact: Collins isn't playing much--3 snaps last game.
Fact: Collins isn't playing over Vallejo and Walker, I think his name is.
Fact: Collins is playing far less than even Simmons played last year.

Everything else is conjecture. You know, you can really enjoy the run this team is on AND be disappointed we haven't gotten any impact, or even snap count contributions, from our 1st-round pick.

 

[kerouac9]

And it’s not like Simmons was taking snaps from a scrub. He took over for established veteran Devondre Campbell who has been killing it for the Packers after leaving.

I’m not mad about Collins. I’m actually laughing about it. The fiasco is hilarious. I’m sure it won’t matter much in the long term because the difference between a C+ and A- off-ball linebacker isn’t much on an impact on a defense.

Which is why is so hilarious we drafted two of them high in consecutive years.