Deandre Ayton discussion

[Dback Jon]

Just read the RealGM General Board. Wow. Lots of bitter Clippers fans.

Ayton held Zubac on the inbounds.
Jae traveled on the inbounds.

Here is the real problem. Foster tried, but he could not force PG's free throws to go in. At some point there is nothing more you can do to fix a game.

Zubac held first.

 

[Covert Rain]

if you’re going to tell me you were more Vociferous about taking Ayton over Doncic than I was, I suggest you go back and look at those threads. I went obnoxious flamethrower at anyone who even suggested the possibility.

I don't know about more but I was just as adamant about unequivocally saying we should take Ayton (go ahead and check). I have also been a staunch defender of him for the past 3 years when unwarranted criticism was thrown his way while pointing out some of it's warranted.

Go back and check this thread when I posted his numbers multiple times. I said he was one of the best centers already. He wasn't at this level but I said it.

P.S. I just checked. It appears people being on the Ayton bandwagon was much more prevalent than both of us remembers. I just check the threads and there were a bunch of people on that bandwagon from day one...Overseas, Superbone, Mainstreet, Ozzyfloyd, SirSitefan, 1tinSoldier, Pokerface, BC867, HehasRosen, Folster, KangtheBrain, BillCarnage, Hoophead, Dback Jon, TJ.....it's a long list.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Luka almost singlehandedly beat the Clippers with Kawhi. Ayton, who’s been fantastic, couldn’t will a team to Game 7 at this point.

or hell... maybe he could with the right coaching from the jump.

all I know is I am elated seeing the guy I desperately wanted 3 years starting to look like that guy on a consistent basis.

I think when Ayton's mental game catches up to his physical capabilities, the sky's the limit. You can how surprised he is in himself, when he makes a special play... Eventually his surprise will transition to expectation and boom!

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[Cheesebeef]

I think when Ayton's mental game catches up to his physical capabilities, the sky's the limit. You can how surprised he is in himself, when he makes a special play... Eventually his surprise will transition to expectation and boom!

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I agree. I also think this experience is teaching him just how hard he needs to play. And what can happen when he does on a regular basis. He even admitted that he’s never played this hard in his entire life.

for so long people have bashed those who criticized Ayton merely as “haters” who just didn’t like him. That was never the case. The reality was we all KNEW he COULD be this guy. We were just pissed that it looked like he didn’t want to be that guy. I mean, someone here blamed us for having too high expectations and the “reality” was Ayton was just a role player.

The guy has talent out the wazoo and it is freaking AWESOME to see him playing hard enough to consistently get the best use of his gifts.

 

[Covert Rain]

I think when Ayton's mental game catches up to his physical capabilities, the sky's the limit. You can how surprised he is in himself, when he makes a special play... Eventually his surprise will transition to expectation and boom!

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

100%. We have repeatedly talk about most of his issues being mental. One of the things I kept putting out there is once this guy realizes he can dominate night in and night out everything will change. It's like he has been out there not realizing how dominant he can be. There have been unwarranted nitpicking and stupid criticisms of Ayton but much of it was also legit driven by people who want to see him reach his potential. The light switch may have just come on and at the right time. I think it was Cheese that said...it's happening in front of our eyes.

 

[AZman5103]

I agree. I also think this experience is teaching him just how hard he needs to play. And what can happen when he does on a regular basis. He even admitted that he’s never played this hard in his entire life.

for so long people have bashed those who criticized Ayton merely as “haters” who just didn’t like him. That was never the case. The reality was we all KNEW he COULD be this guy. We were just pissed that it looked like he didn’t want to be that guy. I mean, someone here blamed us for having too high expectations and the “reality” was Ayton was just a role player.

The guy has talent out the wazoo and it is freaking AWESOME to see him playing hard enough to consistently get the best use of his gifts.

And...if he goes 150%, there is no one that can stop him. There were stretches last night where Ayton made a great defensive play, beat guys down the court and scored...and then beat them down the court again for another defensive play or rebound. Is physical skillset is something like in the 98th percentile of all NBA athletes....EVER. Size, speed, quickness, leaping, strength etc. He is almost unmatched.

If Shaq would have been as athletic as Ayton, he would have averaged 50 a game

 

[JCSunsfan]

Ayton is starting to really show the David Robinson comparison IMO. I think expecting HOF level play from anyone is hard...but I think a good year from Ayton will look alot like a good year from Robinson. Now it's just a matter of how many of those years can you string together without injury.

Here is Robinson's Stat Line from his 95 MVP Season:

1995

Games:82
Min: 36.8
Points: 25.0
FG%: 51.6
3Pt%: 33.3
Rebs: 12.2
Asst: 3.0
Steals: 1.4
Blocks: 3.3

Is there anyone that doubts a season like that is within Ayton's grasp after what we have seen in the playoffs? I'm sold! I think he can be a top 10 player in the NBA! I was more critical of his mental toughness than anyone, but it really seems like he has flipped a switch. My only concern now is does he keep the intensity once he gets 150 million bucks??

Ayton shooting 51% would be a disappointment.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Zubac held first.

Yes. And there is no traveling on an inbounds pass. All you have to do is stay within a three foot sideline window.

 

[Dback Jon]

He'd be a senior in college if he'd stayed in...2 1/2 years pro.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Ayton is not going to be a number one option. Centers aren't number one options these days. But having a mobile center who can defend out to the three and get you points on offense is a huge, huge, asset and worthy of a number one pick. I wanted Ayton. Made no bones about it. Then I admitted I was wrong, but hoped he would develop like big men do--usually a little later. I was told that the "later developing big men" thing was bunk.

Here we are. Glad we can all enjoy it together. I never should have doubted you, big guy.

 

[Covert Rain]

Ayton is not going to be a number one option. Centers aren't number one options these days. But having a mobile center who can defend out to the three and get you points on offense is a huge, huge, asset and worthy of a number one pick. I wanted Ayton. Made no bones about it. Then I admitted I was wrong, but hoped he would develop like big men do--usually a little later. I was told that the "later developing big men" thing was bunk.

Here we are. Glad we can all enjoy it together. I never should have doubted you, big guy.

You don't need him to be #1. We just need him to be a legit threat down low. If he learns to create his own shot it opens up even more 3 point shooting because teams will have to double him in the paint. When the offense struggles, throwing the ball to him on the block would just give us another options besides continuing to chuck up 25 to 30 threes when nothing else is working.

 

[Yuma]

Ayton was what we needed on the Suns. Rebounding and defense was what we were weak at. We already had a cold blooded scorer in Booker. How would Doncic, who needs to hold the ball have worked with Booker? If we picked Young, then who gets us the rebounds and defense we need? All three guys went to the right teams. That's the way I see that draft revisited.

 

[Covert Rain]

Ayton was what we needed on the Suns. Rebounding and defense was what we were weak at. We already had a cold blooded scorer in Booker. How would Doncic, who needs to hold the ball have worked with Booker? If we picked Young, then who gets us the rebounds and defense we need? All three guys went to the right teams. That's the way I see that draft revisited.

I will say it again. This team would not be where we are right now with Doncic instead of Ayton as great of a player that Doncic is.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I will say it again. This team would not be where we are right now with Doncic instead of Ayton as great of a player that Doncic is.

This is truth.

 

[AZman5103]

You don't need him to be #1. We just need him to be a legit threat down low. If he learns to create his own shot it opens up even more 3 point shooting because teams will have to double him in the paint. When the offense struggles, throwing the ball to him on the block would just give us another options besides continuing to chuck up 25 to 30 threes when nothing else is working.

He and Booker are absolutely lethal in the pick and roll, and its getting better. That...is our #1 option I would say. If you slack off Book he carves you up....if you fly at Book, Ayton will dunk it in your face. There are going to be very few teams that can gameplan to stop both Booker AND Ayton....so one should be feasting every game. Booker has also gotten really good at body positioning, creating space on the pick and roll and drawing fouls. Teams are darned if they do, darned if they dont with the Suns Pick and Roll right now.

 

[pokerface]

Ayton was what we needed on the Suns. Rebounding and defense was what we were weak at. We already had a cold blooded scorer in Booker. How would Doncic, who needs to hold the ball have worked with Booker? If we picked Young, then who gets us the rebounds and defense we need? All three guys went to the right teams. That's the way I see that draft revisited.

Plus having CP3 is like having our cake and eating it too...ha. Paul is our Doncic and Booker is our Young...more or less

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Well sure, but those people tend to undervalue defensive impact. The general consensus will always be that Luka is the superior player unless Ayton makes a big jump offensively, but that's just the way it tends to be viewed.

True, but let’s be intellectually honest, shall we? Ayton has played great in the playoffs. But that’s a kid who hasn’t made a single all star game or been named to a single all defensive team. Your homerism is shining through when you neglect to consider Lukas passing and rebounding prowess. He’s not just a scorer. And he’s a legit mvp candidate. Which is better for our team as currently constructed? Ayton. Which would virtually every team take? Almost unanimously luka.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

True, but let’s be intellectually honest, shall we? Ayton has played great in the playoffs. But that’s a kid who hasn’t made a single all star game or been named to a single all defensive team. Your homerism is shining through when you neglect to consider Lukas passing and rebounding prowess. He’s not just a scorer. And he’s a legit mvp candidate. Which is better for our team as currently constructed? Ayton. Which would virtually every team take? Almost unanimously luka.

Never said he is "just a scorer"...

I said he is a great offensive player and has a much bigger impact on that end than Ayton. My argument is that Ayton's much greater impact on defense makes up for a lot of that gap in offensive impact.

That may not matter to the general fan as they care more about how big of numbers you are putting up than the things that don't show up on the stat sheet.

Put it this way. Luka is without a doubt a better basketball player than Ayton, but that doesn't mean that his individual impact on the entire game is above Ayton's.

Obviously if Ayton doesn't continue to play like this consistently than it won't be much of a discussion, but if we are getting this Ayton from here on out than I do think he brings a similar amount of overall impact to the game that Doncic does.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think its possible. He is so much better athletically than almost any big man in the league. His agility is next level...and I think he is starting to see in this series that he can jump over people, bang through people, and he still has a much better than average stroke for a big guy.


As the league keeps moving towards "positionless" basketball and jacking up 200 3's a game...there has to hit a tiltling point where Ayton just physically dominates the guys guarding him and your best play is to feed him the ball for dunks. I wont be surprised to see him come out of nowhere with a 50 point game next year.

Between this comment and the comment someone made earlier about him easily being able to average 30 points you guys are getting a little ahead of yourselves. He averaged 14.4 points this season, is averaging 16.3 in the playoffs, has had 20+ points in 6 of 12 playoffs games, with the highest being 24 points.

Ayton is playing terrific. But let’s not try to claim he’s something he’s clearly not (yet).

 

[JCSunsfan]

Ayton at consistent 18 and 13 and a defensive anchor is all we need. That is huge. 50 point games are not the point.

 

[SirStefan32]

I will say it again. This team would not be where we are right now with Doncic instead of Ayton as great of a player that Doncic is.

See, I don't think that's a fair argument. TEAM would look different. Either way, Luka and Booker would be an insane combo. As high as I am on Ayton, Luka vs. Ayton is not even a remotely close comparison. Luka is right now a top-ten, if not a top-five player in the league.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Between this comment and the comment someone made earlier about him easily being able to average 30 points you guys are getting a little ahead of yourselves. He averaged 14.4 points this season, is averaging 16.3 in the playoffs, has had 20+ points in 6 of 12 playoffs games, with the highest being 24 points.

Ayton is playing terrific. But let’s not try to claim he’s something he’s clearly not (yet).

It's like the David Robinson comparison. Robinson in his prime averaged 25+ points per game. Ayton has a ways to go offensively to be on that level. Though to be fair the game isn't typically played through the big man in the post anymore and the Suns certainly don't play that way either.

 

[AZman5103]

Between this comment and the comment someone made earlier about him easily being able to average 30 points you guys are getting a little ahead of yourselves. He averaged 14.4 points this season, is averaging 16.3 in the playoffs, has had 20+ points in 6 of 12 playoffs games, with the highest being 24 points.

Ayton is playing terrific. But let’s not try to claim he’s something he’s clearly not (yet).

On 10-14 shooting!! How many shots did her average per game this season??

Logic says if you up his shots by 7-8 a game that 4 of them are going in....so averaging 25 points a game is a simple usage issue. Now obviously if his efficiency takes a dump...then this changes. But I think Ayton is earning more touches every game. He is just proving to be too much a matchup nightmare for other bigs that we would be insane not to give him the ball more and more until someone shows they can stop him

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Luka is likely a Super Star for his career but that is still downplaying Ayton a bit. Ayton is not just the right guy for us. He is a Star in these playoffs. He has put up one of the best stretches in NBA playoff history for a big man. Unless you want to argue we are not going to get that from him going forward Ayton is not just the "right guy for us".

I know comparing guys in a draft is what people do but they are two different position players being asked to do two completely different things. We have CP3 and we have Booker. Luka is being asked to be our CP3/Booker for his team. While Ayton is being asked to be the 3rd or 4th option on most nights and still putting up historical numbers. We have now had the Lakers, Nuggets and Clippers all talk about scheming for Ayton.

If Ayton ever develops consistent low post moves, jumper and starts creating his own shot? He could transition to the next level to be a Super star. Not by any means saying that happens but calling Ayton the "right guy for us" completely ignores what he is doing right now. He would be the right guy for any team putting up those numbers in the playoffs.

I agree with this

 

[SirStefan32]

Ayton was what we needed on the Suns. Rebounding and defense was what we were weak at. We already had a cold blooded scorer in Booker. How would Doncic, who needs to hold the ball have worked with Booker? If we picked Young, then who gets us the rebounds and defense we need? All three guys went to the right teams. That's the way I see that draft revisited.

It would work like a dream. Luka is a happy distributor. It would work exactly how it works with CP3 and Booker, only better since Luka is a power-forward sized point guard and many years younger. There isn't a GM in the league that would not laugh at the idea they should trade Luka for Ayton under any circumstances. I am very happy with Ayton, but Luka is in a completely different league than Ayton. I would be shocked if any GM in the NBA would think about Booker over Luka, let alone Ayton over Luka.