ESPN Louis Reddick is huge fan of Caleb Farley

[Shane]

is this true?

There’s a difference in stopping and cutting on a dime on grass versus cleats. Also there’s a different effect the pounding of running takes on the back versus skates.

two combat sports, but completely different combat sports, IMO.

I believe it is true I heard something similar before... There is a reason hockey players can play 2 to 3 games in a week and 82 games a year...football players wouldn’t even survive it... Football is a far more brutal and physically demanding sport.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I believe it is true I heard something similar before... There is a reason hockey players can play 2 to 3 games in a week and 82 games a year...football players wouldn’t even survive it... Football is a far more brutal and physically demanding sport.

that makes a ton of sense factoring in the massive gulf in amount of games between sports.

 

[QuebecCard]

But the impact of a football hit is like 7x harder according to any testing done.

I think Isaac Newton would roll in his grave at this assertion.

The only study I recall was at my Alma Mater Cornell and hockey hits we judged to be 17% harder than football.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I think Isaac Newton would roll in his grave at this assertion.

The only study I recall was at my Alma Mater Cornell and hockey hits we judged to be 17% harder than football.

I would guess that's true because they're moving at higher speeds in hockey. But football has contact every play and many times multiple hits. Therefore, football is harder on the body.

Back to Farley, tackling is not the #1 thing I want out of my CB. Give me a guy who can cover and take out the other teams #1 WR everyday over a guy who is a better tackler. That's why I always thought the "Patrick Peterson can't tackle" arguments were ridiculous.

 

[gimpy]

Can't tackle or won't tackle?

 

[QuebecCard]

I believe it is true I heard something similar before... There is a reason hockey players can play 2 to 3 games in a week and 82 games a year...football players wouldn’t even survive it... Football is a far more brutal and physically demanding sport.

More brutal in the trenches, but not more physically demanding for the specialists of the game: W/O, DB's.

A number of studies have been done and evaluated using the following criteria: Hockey always comes out ahead of Football.

ENDURANCE: The ability to continue to perform a skill or action for long periods of time.
STRENGTH: The ability to produce force.
POWER: The ability to produce strength in the shortest possible time.
SPEED: The ability to move quickly.
AGILITY: The ability to change direction quickly.
FLEXIBILITY: The ability to stretch the joints across a large range of motion.
NERVE: The ability to overcome fear.
DURABILITY: The ability to withstand physical punishment over a long period of time.
HAND-EYE COORDINATION: The ability to react quickly to sensory perception.
ANALYTIC APTITUDE: The ability to evaluate and react appropriately to strategic situations.

Football is the most intense anaerobic sport that involves quick bursts of energy and is performed at maximum effort for a short time. Hockey is a combination of aerobic (endurance) with anaerobic features.

Both a great tests and can be equally loved!

 

[QuebecCard]

I would guess that's true because they're moving at higher speeds in hockey. But football has contact every play and many times multiple hits. Therefore, football is harder on the body.

Back to Farley, tackling is not the #1 thing I want out of my CB. Give me a guy who can cover and take out the other teams #1 WR everyday over a guy who is a better tackler. That's why I always thought the "Patrick Peterson can't tackle" arguments were ridiculous.

True, when it comes to the trenches but not all over the field.

And, yes, I agree regarding Farley.

 

[Krangodnzr]

is this true?

There was a sports science episode on it. It's on youtube.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I think Isaac Newton would roll in his grave at this assertion.

The only study I recall was at my Alma Mater Cornell and hockey hits we judged to be 17% harder than football.

Andy Bernard? Is it you?

 

[Krangodnzr]

The cleats vs skates is a big reason.

Cleates give a lot less than skates.

 

[QuebecCard]

The cleats vs skates is a big reason.

Cleates give a lot less than skates.

Simply not a factor in calculating the effect of a collision.

Velocity is velocity.

If two cars collide head-on at 60mph it doesn't matter whether they had snow tyres or radials.

Consider the biomechanical forces involved — velocity is increased (players travel faster on skates than on foot) so deceleration would be increased — increasing G-force of impact.

It's a bit like the argument between proponents of heavy baseball bats vs lighter back in the day. The heavy bat argument simply could not understand that it was bat speed at contact that made the ball travel further.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Simply not a factor in calculating the effect of a collision.

Velocity is velocity.

If two cars collide head-on at 60mph it doesn't matter whether they had snow tyres or radials.

Consider the biomechanical forces involved — velocity is increased (players travel faster on skates than on foot) so deceleration would be increased — increasing G-force of impact.

It's a bit like the argument between proponents of heavy baseball bats vs lighter back in the day. The heavy bat argument simply could not understand that it was bat speed at contact that made the ball travel further.

This simply intuitively cannot be accurate. If I hit a reinforced wall going 60 mph that doesn’t budge verses hitting a wall of the same material without reinforcement that crumbles upon impact the former will do much more damage than the latter.

 

[Krangodnzr]

This simply intuitively cannot be accurate. If I hit a reinforced wall going 60 mph that doesn’t budge verses hitting a wall of the same material without reinforcement that crumbles upon impact the former will do much more damage than the latter.

Or if I hit a car that's on ice, there is more give.

 

[QuebecCard]

This simply intuitively cannot be accurate. If I hit a reinforced wall going 60 mph that doesn’t budge verses hitting a wall of the same material without reinforcement that crumbles upon impact the former will do much more damage than the latter.

Of course, but not my point.

The two cars in my example are of equal mass and travelling at the same speed when they hit, as such, the tyres are not a factor in the G-force impact.

Returning to football vs hockey hits.

The concussive difference between a 200 lb. Wideout being hit squarely in the chest by a 200 Safety and a 200 lb. forward being hit squarely in the chest by a 200 defenceman is velocity, not skates or cleats. If the two football players are travelling faster than the two hockey players when they hit, then it's a harder hit and vice-versa; footwear does not matter.

Unrelated to this simple fact of physics is the potential result. Football players have more protective headgear and land on grass or turf, not ice.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Simply not a factor in calculating the effect of a collision.

Velocity is velocity.

If two cars collide head-on at 60mph it doesn't matter whether they had snow tyres or radials.

Consider the biomechanical forces involved — velocity is increased (players travel faster on skates than on foot) so deceleration would be increased — increasing G-force of impact.

It's a bit like the argument between proponents of heavy baseball bats vs lighter back in the day. The heavy bat argument simply could not understand that it was bat speed at contact that made the ball travel further.

here’s the bigger issue... with back injuries, I’m not worried about guys getting hit primarily. It’s the exact short bursts of energy and the constant stopping and turning on a dime that always aggravates that area, which is what CBs are doing all game. Hips on a swivel is crucial for great CB play, but if you’re already dealing with permanent structural damage of a disc, that is inevitably going to factor down to your hips, especially depending on what level the microdiscectomy was performed.

that’s my main concern with a CB. The getting hit is just the gravy on top.

 

[QuebecCard]

here’s the bigger issue... with back injuries, I’m not worried about guys getting hit primarily. It’s the exact short bursts of energy and the constant stopping and turning on a dime that always aggravates that area, which is what CBs are doing all game. Hips on a swivel is crucial for great CB play, but if you’re already dealing with permanent structural damage of a disc, that is inevitably going to factor down to your hips, especially depending on what level the microdiscectomy was performed.

that’s my main concern with a CB. The getting hit is just the gravy on top.

Well, your brother "Moan" did mention you have some painful experience with back issues and I trust your knowledge and concern.

My anecdotal response involves a cousin who had two spinal fusions and is in the NHL Hall of Fame.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Gilbert

 

[PACardsFan]

Well, your brother "Moan" did mention you have some painful experience with back issues and I trust your knowledge and concern.

My anecdotal response involves a cousin who had two spinal fusions and is in the NHL Hall of Fame.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Gilbert

I remember Rod Gilbert well! Great, great player. Wasn’t he part of the French Connection?? Even though I grew up in NYS, I’ve been a Habs fan since the mid 60’s.

 

[PACardsFan]

My bad. Buffalo had the French Connection. But, Gilbert was an awesome player!

 

[Cheesebeef]

Well, your brother "Moan" did mention you have some painful experience with back issues and I trust your knowledge and concern.

My anecdotal response involves a cousin who had two spinal fusions and is in the NHL Hall of Fame.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Gilbert

My own experience and talking to doctors first hand about all these injuries definitely color my opinion about young guys with back injuries. But that’s only been compounded with watching so many players in high impact sports like Football and Basketball suffer back injuries and are either never the same or take at least a couple years to return to form, even after the most “invasive” of surgeries.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

If the rest of the league allows Farley to fall to 16, the Cards should grab him. He’s not perfect. He a little tackle averse, but he can cover on an island. Like all CBs there will be growing pains but he should grow into a force in the Cards’ secondary. I’m okay with Horn, but his skills would have to be integrated into a planned coverage system.

If he has some injury concerns, especially with his back, then I wouldn't care if ever made a tackle.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Of course, but not my point.

The two cars in my example are of equal mass and travelling at the same speed when they hit, as such, the tyres are not a factor in the G-force impact.

Returning to football vs hockey hits.

The concussive difference between a 200 lb. Wideout being hit squarely in the chest by a 200 Safety and a 200 lb. forward being hit squarely in the chest by a 200 defenceman is velocity, not skates or cleats. If the two football players are travelling faster than the two hockey players when they hit, then it's a harder hit and vice-versa; footwear does not matter.

Unrelated to this simple fact of physics is the potential result. Football players have more protective headgear and land on grass or turf, not ice.

Yes, the initial force is the initial force. But the majority of injuries in the nfl are lower body injuries. If the clears plant and the skates don’t it creates more torque on the football players’ lower body.

what’s also not being taken into consideration is the type of injury and the types of hits in each sport. Hockey collisions are typically side-to-side or shoulder-to-shoulder and sometimes shoulder to lower body. Tackling in football is direct spinal compression to varying degrees. In other words, tackling directly impacts the job discs are meant to do to protect the spine.

 

[QuebecCard]

My bad. Buffalo had the French Connection. But, Gilbert was an awesome player!

He was on the GAG line (Goal a game) with Jean Ratelle and Vic Hatfield.

 

[QuebecCard]

Yes, the initial force is the initial force. But the majority of injuries in the nfl are lower body injuries. If the clears plant and the skates don’t it creates more torque on the football players’ lower body.

what’s also not being taken into consideration is the type of injury and the types of hits in each sport. Hockey collisions are typically side-to-side or shoulder-to-shoulder and sometimes shoulder to lower body. Tackling in football is direct spinal compression to varying degrees. In other words, tackling directly impacts the job discs are meant to do to protect the spine.

Good points.

 

[football karma]

outside of the QB slots --

Farley and Jaelen Phillips are the two biggest risk/reward players in the draft:

IF healthy -- each probably gives you top 5 in the NFL potential at their position

but that health part.......

Keim has historically leaned into those risks

 

[Jetstream Green]

The back is never that simple.

just as an FYI - I don’t know your experience with backs, but I broke a wing off one of my vertebrae - docs decided not to do surgery. It’s affected me at odd times throughout my life. Granted I’m not a professional athlete.

cheese on the other hand has had multiple disc-related surgeries and attest to what each of them were like for him. And he had the first at a young age too.

the back is no joke.

I agree, the back is fickle and personally if drafting I would rather wish the guy was recovering from a freaking ACL than back problems at such a early age... he has not played the position long and has injury potential which you really cannot fix putting more red flags on him for me than a Chinese military parade lol