Cards\Giants Post Game chatter. 12/13/20

[DVontel]

I really love the idea of tagging Reddick. This way we find out if he actually turned the corner or if he was a one-hit-wonder in a contract year. This is similar to how I think tagging Drake last off-season was a great move. It allowed us to get a much larger sample size to see if all the hype was legit (which by the way I think Drake has quietly done his job, but I’m not interested in resigning him for what he’ll want to be paid. Maybe we sign Fournette to pair with Chase? Anyway, I’m getting side tracked).

The point is I think the solution is to bring back Reddick, but only by giving him the tag.

Fournette is terrible so nah.

 

[Chopper0080]

You may or may not agree with this, but most teams in the league have cornerback issues. I would argue that really only 4-5 teams don't.

Kirkpatrick has been okay. He's not an absolute embarrassment and he has put together a few pretty good games. I'm more annoyed with Pat P. He's paid to be a top corner and I doubt he is better next year.

I'd almost rather go for two decent corner contracts and let Pat and Kirkpatrick walk. There will be a few decent corners this year, not many, but a few.

I do agree with you about the cornerback depth around the league.

I agree that you need to prioritize Reddick over Peterson regardless of the positional depth. One thing I personally get frustrated with is our lack of continuity in the secondary as a franchise.

 

[Chopper0080]

As much as I don't like it, if we do franchise Reddick and re-sign Golden, we probably have to cut Kennard to get that 4 mil. It will also be interesting to see how Keim and Chandler Jones figure out that contract.

 

[football karma]

i think the team gets one of Golden or Reddick

one of the issues with OLB in a 3/4 is that you need OLBs that can set the edge in the run game. DEs are usually either head up, or, inside shoulder on tackles -- so the OLB has to make sure the D isnt constantly flanked out side on runs. This isnt Reddick's strength. Golden is good at it.

Kennard is good at it as well

 

[Cheesebeef]

As much as I don't like it, if we do franchise Reddick and re-sign Golden, we probably have to cut Kennard to get that 4 mil. It will also be interesting to see how Keim and Chandler Jones figure out that contract.

I don’t think we get both Reddick and Golden back. It’ll be one or the other... if that. And I’m betting whoever’s cheaper.

 

[WisconsinCard]

I don’t think we get both Reddick and Golden back. It’ll be one or the other... if that. And I’m betting whoever’s cheaper.

Agreed and we know who is cheaper. How much is the tag for Reddick? Got to be up there in the 15 mil area I would guess. He's is not worth that much. Need to sign him to 3 year deal for around 35 to 40 mil.

 

[Chopper0080]

I don’t think we get both Reddick and Golden back. It’ll be one or the other... if that. And I’m betting whoever’s cheaper.

Reddick depends on the use of the franchise tag in my mind. If we can get him to extend for around 8 mil per year with a 3 year deal, I think we do that. I just don't know what the market will look like for him. You know Keim will want to re-sign him, but Keim faced a similar situation with DJ Humphries and didn't break the bank to back his drafting of The Captain.

Re: Golden...I just don't know. The market for him has never been hot. He likes AZ. Does he re-sign for 3 years, 12 mil? Maybe because I don't know that he is gonna get more on the market at 30 years old. He is a hard worker and a guy who says he wants to be in AZ. It will be interesting to see what that ultimately means.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Reddick depends on the use of the franchise tag in my mind. If we can get him to extend for around 8 mil per year with a 3 year deal, I think we do that. I just don't know what the market will look like for him. You know Keim will want to re-sign him, but Keim faced a similar situation with DJ Humphries and didn't break the bank to back his drafting of The Captain.

Re: Golden...I just don't know. The market for him has never been hot. He likes AZ. Does he re-sign for 3 years, 12 mil? Maybe because I don't know that he is gonna get more on the market at 30 years old. He is a hard worker and a guy who says he wants to be in AZ. It will be interesting to see what that ultimately means.

Any idea what the tag number would be on Reddick?

 

[Chopper0080]

Any idea what the tag number would be on Reddick?

15 mil as a LB and 17 for a DE. I think we would push hard for the LB classification. Transition tag is 13 mil and 14.4 respectively.

Also, something to consider is that the transition tag for CBs is projected at 12.89 mil. So, this actually might be the best use of any tag for the Cardinals in 2021. Patrick Peterson at 12.89 is very reasonable in relation to his comps at CB. It also enables him to test the market if he wants and see what else is out there. If he finds a better offer, we can match or let him walk.

 

[BritCard]

Agreed and we know who is cheaper. How much is the tag for Reddick? Got to be up there in the 15 mil area I would guess. He's is not worth that much. Need to sign him to 3 year deal for around 35 to 40 mil.

I'd rather castrate myself with garden shears than pay Reddick $15m a year based off one season of production that mostly came from 1 game. Especially in a down cap year.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

more fun facts:

Cards first six games, opponents record as of today: 24-54. Cards record 4-2 Detroit is the bad loss here.
Cards next six games opponent record: 49-29 Cards record: 2-4 All one score games in the 4th Q. NE is the bad loss here.
Cards remaining four (inc. NYG result): 23-28

So looks like points in direction of going 2-2 in final four.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

This will be a pivotal off-season with some tough decisions to be made.

Pat Peterson - tough decision looking at our secondary and FA class.
Larry Fitzgerald - emotional decision.
Haason Reddick / Markus Golden - guys who are playing well but limited.
Dan Arnold - Murray trusts him.

The secondary as a whole. We have one piece in Budda. Two inconsistent pieces in Murphy and Jalen Thompson. Not sure we should count on either.

ILB - Need depth.

DL - Need someone to step up or need more talent.

IOL - Need better talent.

OT - Need Josh Jones to play well.

WR - Ugh

RB - Same

Agree with all.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I'd rather castrate myself with garden shears than pay Reddick $15m a year based off one season of production that mostly came from 1 game. Especially in a down cap year.

I understand the sentiment, but the risk of losing what appears to be a guy that can be pretty damn productive is pretty high.

$15 million isn't what it used to be; you're seeing the top guys get in the low 20s now.

I mean, you went crazy over the Humphries resigning, and now that signing looks like the Cardinals best resigning in maybe a decade. They have a good, young LT signed for what, 4 more years at a below market deal. Humphries is basically on par with Tunsil and he makes significantly less.

Signing Reddick would be a similar move. Reddick only showed glimpses of his ability, just like Humphries did.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I might be a minority, but I would look to move Chandler Jones this offseason. The Cardinals could get a decent pick and would clear over $10 million from the 2021 cap. The $5 million dead cap would hurt, but if you could get like a 3rd or 4th rounder, resign Golden and Reddick, I'm not so certain this would be that bad of a move.

I'd also look to add a young pass rusher to the group so that you could look to move on from Golden a few years down the road.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I might be a minority, but I would look to move Chandler Jones this offseason. The Cardinals could get a decent pick and would clear over $10 million from the 2021 cap. The $5 million dead cap would hurt, but if you could get like a 3rd or 4th rounder, resign Golden and Reddick, I'm not so certain this would be that bad of a move.

I'd also look to add a young pass rusher to the group so that you could look to move on from Golden a few years down the road.

if they were able to get both of those guys locked down, I don’t think the above is all that ridiculous. I’d still be hesitant. Having an I,proving Reddick and CJ attacking the passer makes my mouth water.

 

[Krangodnzr]

if they were able to get both of those guys locked down, I don’t think the above is all that ridiculous. I’d still be hesitant. Having an I,proving Reddick and CJ attacking the passer makes my mouth water.

The issue is scarcity of cap space and not a ton of moves to get cap space easier.

I want to keep Golden, Reddick, and Peterson. I think Golden isn't a top pass rusher, but he's a solid rotation guy. I think Reddick can be a KGB like pass rusher who is primarily a 3rd down kind of guy. Peterson isn't a shutdown guy, but he's still better than 70% of the leagues corners and guys like that still get paid.

Jones is getting old. He has one more year left on his contract and is coming back of a season ending injury. His name should still have some value, and a contending team may view him as the final piece to get them over the top. I'm a CJ fan, but at the end of the day, is usually a passable run defender and slow twitch pass rusher. I'd wager the majority of his sacks as a Cardinal come in the 3-4 second range (coverage sack), he rarely beats a guy and gets one of those 1-2 second sacks.

One of Keim's biggest issues as a GM is that he tends to wait until a player is gone to address roster holes, while you routinely watch the good GMs draft a guy a year early to take the place of the expensive veteran you know you aren't going to resign. I don't want to keep CJ at the end of this contract; I just don't think his game will age well once he gets even slower.

 

[BritCard]

I understand the sentiment, but the risk of losing what appears to be a guy that can be pretty damn productive is pretty high.

$15 million isn't what it used to be; you're seeing the top guys get in the low 20s now.

I mean, you went crazy over the Humphries resigning, and now that signing looks like the Cardinals best resigning in maybe a decade. They have a good, young LT signed for what, 4 more years at a below market deal. Humphries is basically on par with Tunsil and he makes significantly less.

Signing Reddick would be a similar move. Reddick only showed glimpses of his ability, just like Humphries did.

Reddick sacks have come against a no name guy in his 2nd game for Washington. Two against the 3rd string no names of Dallas. One against Brandon Snell for the Chicks. Five against rookies Matt Peart and Andrew Thomas.

His sack vs the Lions was on TJ Hockenson.

I don't want to take anything away from him but I need to see him beat a top 30 tackle at least. And if he wants 15m I need to see him perform vs top 15.

 

[BritCard]

I might be a minority, but I would look to move Chandler Jones this offseason. The Cardinals could get a decent pick and would clear over $10 million from the 2021 cap. The $5 million dead cap would hurt, but if you could get like a 3rd or 4th rounder, resign Golden and Reddick, I'm not so certain this would be that bad of a move.

I'd also look to add a young pass rusher to the group so that you could look to move on from Golden a few years down the road.

If you can get anything for a 31 year old earning 20m I'm taking it. As much as I love CJ he's not the future.

 

[DVontel]

Unless he resigns for cheap, I’d let Markus go. He’s just so athletically limited compared to Reddick while lacking the technical ability of Chandler. Love the guy, but it is what it is.

 

[Chopper0080]

The issue is scarcity of cap space and not a ton of moves to get cap space easier.

I want to keep Golden, Reddick, and Peterson. I think Golden isn't a top pass rusher, but he's a solid rotation guy. I think Reddick can be a KGB like pass rusher who is primarily a 3rd down kind of guy. Peterson isn't a shutdown guy, but he's still better than 70% of the leagues corners and guys like that still get paid.

Jones is getting old. He has one more year left on his contract and is coming back of a season ending injury. His name should still have some value, and a contending team may view him as the final piece to get them over the top. I'm a CJ fan, but at the end of the day, is usually a passable run defender and slow twitch pass rusher. I'd wager the majority of his sacks as a Cardinal come in the 3-4 second range (coverage sack), he rarely beats a guy and gets one of those 1-2 second sacks.

One of Keim's biggest issues as a GM is that he tends to wait until a player is gone to address roster holes, while you routinely watch the good GMs draft a guy a year early to take the place of the expensive veteran you know you aren't going to resign. I don't want to keep CJ at the end of this contract; I just don't think his game will age well once he gets even slower.

Colts, Jets and Jaguars are about your market for Chandler Jones. Also, with Kyler Murray on a rookie deal, I am prepared to pay Chandler Jones one year too much. I think it is easier to just rework Chandler's deal. He will want the upfront money and we don't need another Calias Campbell situation.

If you take out the Giants game, Reddick has 5 sacks. I would rather let him walk than risk paying him 15 mil on a multi year deal. 4yrs 40 mil, I can stomach that.

Golden would be nice, but he isn't much different from Kennard. If Golden wants to look for 8 mil, let him as you still have Kennard on the roster.

Ideally, you extend Jones (dropping him cap hit from 20 to 10 which is his bonus spread), sign Golden for 4, and transition tag Reddick if he won't take an 8 mil per year deal. You draft an EDGE player in round 1 like Oweh, Ossai, or Ajulari and see who earns the reps. This way, in 2022, you let Reddick walk, still have Golden, Jones and your first round pick. Honestly, this also might be the EDGE class to draft one in round 1 and 3 (or trade back in 3 for an additional 4).

 

[Chopper0080]

Unless he resigns for cheap, I’d let Markus go. He’s just so athletically limited compared to Reddick while lacking the technical ability of Chandler. Love the guy, but it is what it is.

I would pay him 4 max.

 

[Stout]

I understand the sentiment, but the risk of losing what appears to be a guy that can be pretty damn productive is pretty high.

$15 million isn't what it used to be; you're seeing the top guys get in the low 20s now.

I mean, you went crazy over the Humphries resigning, and now that signing looks like the Cardinals best resigning in maybe a decade. They have a good, young LT signed for what, 4 more years at a below market deal. Humphries is basically on par with Tunsil and he makes significantly less.

Signing Reddick would be a similar move. Reddick only showed glimpses of his ability, just like Humphries did.

Actually, hey, so did I. Glad to be wrong on that one.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Actually, hey, so did I. Glad to be wrong on that one.

The problem people have is projecting potential.

Hump demonstrated that potential last season and he plays a position that even bad players tend to get paid pretty well to play.

Either side could be wrong, but not signing him was the bigger risk.

 

[WisconsinCard]

It's just nice to see a cardinal player reaching their potential. Once I saw his feet and how good they were I knew he had talent, and it looks like he's put in the work to improve.

 

[Stout]

The problem people have is projecting potential.

Hump demonstrated that potential last season and he plays a position that even bad players tend to get paid pretty well to play.

Either side could be wrong, but not signing him was the bigger risk.

I was really concerned with his durability, or lack thereof. He's been durable this season, though.