End of Season - Where are you? Darksider or Lightsider?

[TJ]

Sorry pal, but there can be plenty of positives when comparing this year to last year. This team was quite a bit better this year than last and that was with a rookie QB and a rookie HC.
They also have a bunch of cap space for free agency and a high draft pick to potentially get another difference maker. There is without a doubt things to be positive about and because of all these things I like the overall outlook for the future of this team.

There are things to be positive about, but when you weigh the positives with the negatives, it's hard to look at this team and say this team will be a playoff contender next season:

• We seemingly have the QBoF, but he has to make a jump next year from where he's at now. I'm confident he will, but it's not a certainty
• We have a lot of cap room, but do you trust the man behind the controls of that cap room? There are teams that rarely have an abundance of cap room, but seem to make it work. And then there are teams like Jacksonville and Oakland seem to always have like $50-$80 mil/year to spend and make dumb signings.
• A high draft pick, but what about Keim's draft history makes you comfortable that he'll make the right move?
• Can all of the holes and depth be filled with the cap room and high draft pick? You're asking a GM who's struggled immensely the past four seasons to patch everything in one offseason.
• And if you fill in those holes on defense, can you trust Vance to coach a solid game plan on Sundays?
• And don't forget about the outside variables. The NFC West is loaded. The NFC, in general, has a lot of good teams. The Cardinals have to outpace those teams to get back into the postseason. Getting from 5 wins to 9 or 10 is going to be a struggle

It's hard to consider everything and say the good outweighs the bad.

 

[FB94]

Fix a couple dings on offense. The defensive side of the ball needs to go to the body shop

 

[Cardiac]

Gems? Like who?
2019 is too early to judge, looks like he nailed the first rounder though (as he should when he picks #1 overall)

Lets look at the five drafts before that...
2018 draft has 3 players left and only 1 guy who starts but isn't anything more than an average player (Kirk)
2017 draft has 2 players left, Reddick is STILL a project but this year Baker has shown he is an NFL quality Safety
2016 draft ZERO players left on the team
2015 draft 3 players left--Humphries, Johnson and Gunter--Johnson doesn't even see the field anymore and his current contract is an albatross
2014 draft ZERO players left on the team

I don't think anyone expects him to be 100% on his picks but of 33 picks over that span (2014-2018) we have 8 players left on the roster. Our ability to find an impact player in the first round has been abysmal, Kyler was very likely a gift and not a measure of Keim's ability to draft (having the #1 pick sure didn't hurt).

That drafting record and the boatload of dead cap this year are indictments of Keim's ability as a GM. The team has no depth because of his failure to build through the draft.

Yes we all know about the misses but you quoted me on a different point which was about small school prospects.

Having 3 HC's in 3 years adds to roster turn over.

Keim gets another year or two IMO and I'm guessing MB's as well.

 

[Zeno]

Yes we all know about the misses but you quoted me on a different point which was about small school prospects.

Having 3 HC's in 3 years adds to roster turn over.

Keim gets another year or two IMO and I'm guessing MB's as well.

I still don't see any "gems" but I guess our definition of gems varies.

I am sure Keim gets another year, I just don't think anything in his recent history justifies it and that tempers any enthusiasm I have in the organization moving forward.

 

[clif]

Dark side. Subject to change. 23-39-2 in the last 64. 763 losses in history.


1 QB 1 LB and everyone else is replaceable.

 

[Cardiac]

I still don't see any "gems" but I guess our definition of gems varies.

I am sure Keim gets another year, I just don't think anything in his recent history justifies it and that tempers any enthusiasm I have in the organization moving forward.

Bethel was a gem and I believe still in the NFL. So was Smoke but sickle cell ended his time in Az but he is playing well in Buffalo. Gunther is solid for a 4th rd pick.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Was there any doubt?

 

[Zeno]

Bethel was a gem and I believe still in the NFL. So was Smoke but sickle cell ended his time in Az but he is playing well in Buffalo. Gunther is solid for a 4th rd pick.

Bethel was a special teamer that has been on 2 different teams since he left here and couldn't sniff a lineup as a defensive starter. Hardly a gem. I liked John Brown when he was here but he is hardly what I would call a gem.

Also Bethel and Brown are not on the Cardinals--any success they have after they leave here has ZERO value to this franchise.

Gunther is a depth guy--good to have but if he had been offered a contract anywhere else he wouldn't be a Cardinal.

How many Cardinals draft picks get a second contract from the team? That is also another failure of the front office.

 

[juza76]

I never post to troll. There's nothing entertaining about getting a rise out of people. If you go back and look at my post history prior to this year, you'll see I was always overwhelmingly positive. We haven't had a winning season since 2015, and I'm running out of patience with the one guy who has been a constant in that process.

I think what you might be seeing is some positivity around some wins, but that doesn't change my lack of excitement about the bigger picture, where I still have a severe amount of doubt in the GM, and don't really love the coach.


Unsure where you're getting those numbers, but regardless, yes, Kyler is a bright spot. Offensive improvement is good for my fantasy teams, but the defensive dropoff makes this a team I still don't think can win games, and I'm not certain the pieces are out there for us to fix it... especially not for Keim to fix it.

Ok u have been a positive type of poster
So explain me why even after a good rookie season by our new qb u still showing some negativity towards Murray
It show u can't change your mind, and it doesn't look good

 

[Solar7]

Ok u have been a positive type of posters
So explain me why even after a good rookie season by our new qb u still showing some negativity towards Murray
It show u can't change your mind, and it doesn't look good

I posted as recently as yesterday that Kyler deserves to be Offensive Rookie of the Year. How is that not changing my mind?

He is a good quarterback. He has some work to put in during the offseason to improve his footwork, not run into sacks, and refine his running/scrambling if he wants to be elite. I am not ready to anoint him as an elite QB yet - in fact, the only young QB in years I'm anointing is Patrick Mahomes. Lamar Jackson could ascend to that level with a hot postseason, same with Deshaun Watson, but hey. These things take time.

Kyler aside though, there is very little to brighten my feelings about the team. I don't know if there's a lot of fans here who just passively follow the Cardinals and think "Good QB = automatic improvement," but I spend a lot of time looking into contracts, available players, and the competitive landscape, and I just don't see it changing for a while.

 

[Cardiac]

Bethel was a special teamer that has been on 2 different teams since he left here and couldn't sniff a lineup as a defensive starter. Hardly a gem. I liked John Brown when he was here but he is hardly what I would call a gem.

Also Bethel and Brown are not on the Cardinals--any success they have after they leave here has ZERO value to this franchise.

Gunther is a depth guy--good to have but if he had been offered a contract anywhere else he wouldn't be a Cardinal.

How many Cardinals draft picks get a second contract from the team? That is also another failure of the front office.

Bethel made the pro bowl several years on ST's so yes, a gem. Plus he had the athletic ability to be a top notch CB but lacked the ability to locate the ball in the air. IIRC he was a 6th rd pick and played for the Cards for years. Bethel was a blast to watch as a gunner and made impactful plays every single game. Don't discount the value of ST's and some players make the roster simply because of their ST's play.

John Brown is no longer a Card because BA didn't understand his sickle cell disease and Brown took it personal and left via FA. Plus sickle cell symptoms worsen in heat and high altitude. That's bad luck and not a poor draft choice.

Keim's record obviously has some blemishes but I believe we have lived through his growing pains and don't want to start over with another GM learning on the job.

Who do you want to hire to replace Keim?

 

[Zeno]

Who do you want to hire to replace Keim?

That isn't my decision to make. I just want a guy who can have success in the draft and build a championship contending roster. Keim has shown me nothing that makes me think he is capable of either of those things--history is not on his side.

 

[AZman5103]

I am actually much more confident in Keim this offseason if he sticks to his PFF draft strategy.

Like them or hate them, PFF would give us a very good player at #8, and probably starters in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

I do not want him reaching for small school guys in the 3rd round and wasting the chance to get an impact player.

Just go with the highest ranked player in every round and I'm confident we will fill some of our needs.

 

[FB94]

With all the cap space, top 10 pick for next year, this team needs to be .500 at worst in order for Keim to stay after 2020 season.

 

[Solar7]

Bethel made the pro bowl several years on ST's so yes, a gem. Plus he had the athletic ability to be a top notch CB but lacked the ability to locate the ball in the air. IIRC he was a 6th rd pick and played for the Cards for years. Bethel was a blast to watch as a gunner and made impactful plays every single game. Don't discount the value of ST's and some players make the roster simply because of their ST's play.

John Brown is no longer a Card because BA didn't understand his sickle cell disease and Brown took it personal and left via FA. Plus sickle cell symptoms worsen in heat and high altitude. That's bad luck and not a poor draft choice.

Keim's record obviously has some blemishes but I believe we have lived through his growing pains and don't want to start over with another GM learning on the job.

Who do you want to hire to replace Keim?

I'm with Zeno here. Guys not on our roster don't count. Bethel couldn't contribute more than special teams - and while special teams are important and all, we tried counting on Bethel and were worse off for it in that time.

As for Brown, don't discount the litany of other injuries he had, like hamstring issues, a cyst on his spine, foot injuries... It's not like that mean 'ol Arians just singled him out. Also, the guy only lasted one year in Baltimore.

You're counting "gems" as guys who maybe contributed one decent year to us as the whole of their time since drafted. Simple enough, Keim hasn't kept much of anyone on this roster, and it's why all of the cap room we have is going to be soaked up replacing spots in Free Agency, since we have no young players to fill the void.

We have one player under 25 with the potential to become a star player or even pro bowler on this roster, and it's Kyler Murray. And even then, we barely have any good enough players under 25 to be starters.

 

[Cardiac]

So what is the league average for player retention. What is the average length of a player's career.

If Keim drafted a player and they are still in the league but not on the Cards roster is it all his fault or does some blame belong to coaches.

 

[Chopper0080]

I am on the right side...as always.

 

[Solar7]

So what is the league average for player retention. What is the average length of a player's career.

If Keim drafted a player and they are still in the league but not on the Cards roster is it all his fault or does some blame belong to coaches.

From a study done last year, showing since 2011, using players who got a second contract:

You must be registered for see images attach

I don't have the blended %, but we're well below it.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I feel......nothing.

The bright side? Kyler Murray

The dark side? Steve Keim

Still needs to be determined? Kingsbury

So, everything is even in my book.

Sent from my mystical communication warp drive device thingy

this describes me perfectly.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Some of those grades are based on circumstances based on not having a legit QB, that makes just about every GM look bad.

I guess I'm taking a Steelers approach in that churn often caused more harm than good. Keim has done some great moves which gives me hope that the mistakes are mostly a thing of the past.

I will add that some of the criticism's with Keim are simply not accurate; for example he prefers small colleges and all those picks are busts. He has found more gems than misses.

“More gems than misses?!?” He might have more small school “gems” than most GMs, but those absolutely pale in comparison to his awful busts in 1st and 2nd rounders.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Some of those grades are based on circumstances based on not having a legit QB, that makes just about every GM look bad.

I guess I'm taking a Steelers approach in that churn often caused more harm than good. Keim has done some great moves which gives me hope that the mistakes are mostly a thing of the past.

I will add that some of the criticism's with Keim are simply not accurate; for example he prefers small colleges and all those picks are busts. He has found more gems than misses.

Also, Steelers don’t churn bc they draft well. Keim can’t say that.

 

[bankybruce]

That is clear.

Sorry pal there are no positives in consecutive 10+ loss seasons. Everything positive is Cardinals PR trying to make fans forget about the record. And the fact this GM has one playoff win in seven years and next playoff win is unlikely until 2021, another Cardinals decade is lost. A decade. You wanna crown their... go ahead as the late Great Denny Green said.

San Fransisco 49ers disagree with you, you know, the #1 seed in the NFC.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Sorry pal, but there can be plenty of positives when comparing this year to last year. This team was quite a bit better this year than last and that was with a rookie QB and a rookie HC. They also have a bunch of cap space for free agency and a high draft pick to potentially get another difference maker. There is without a doubt things to be positive about and because of all these things I like the overall outlook for the future of this team.

Kind of an indictment of bluto that they were quite a better compared to last year due to last year being the worst cardinal team I can recall. So better than absolutely dreadful isn’t a ringing endorsement in my book.

Not only do they have a lot of cap space but also a ton of positions to fill, including starters. So that really cuts both ways.

and that high draft pick means we were bad again and we have the same “mastermind” at the controls that netted us 8 wins in the past two years.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I feel......nothing.

The bright side? Kyler Murray

The dark side? Steve Keim

Still needs to be determined? Kingsbury

So, everything is even in my book.

Sent from my mystical communication warp drive device thingy

#firebluto

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Bethel was a gem and I believe still in the NFL. So was Smoke but sickle cell ended his time in Az but he is playing well in Buffalo. Gunther is solid for a 4th rd pick.

So a special teamer. An oft injured wr that bluto dumped. And a dude who literally no one else wanted. “Gems” and well worth swinging and missing consistently on top draft picks.