Deandre Ayton facing 25 game suspension

[JCSunsfan]

Interestingly enough, it does look like a diuretic CAN help to alleviate a painful and embarrassing over-response to Viagra.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases...epth/high-blood-pressure-and-sex/art-20044209

Some have suggested this is what happened.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Who is to say that he will even appeal with an excuse. Maybe he will simply own up to it, but hope to get a reduction with the idea that it was a one time thing and that he learned his lesson. It's not a court room where there has to be a bunch of facts laid out to change something. Though even in a court the judge can choose to reduce your sentence based on things like being a first time offender or if he/she has reason to believe that you have learned your lesson and won't do it again (for less serious crimes obviously).

 

[JCSunsfan]

Who is to say that he will even appeal with an excuse. Maybe he will simply own up to it, but hope to get a reduction with the idea that it was a one time thing and that he learned his lesson. It's not a court room where there has to be a bunch of facts laid out to change something. Though even in a court the judge can choose to reduce your sentence based on things like being a first time offender or if he/she has reason to believe that you have learned your lesson and won't do it again (for less serious crimes obviously).

The players association is only allowed two appeals per year league-wide (at least that was what was reported on the radio when this first broke). I cannot imagine they would use up their appeal on that kind of thing.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

The players association is only allowed two appeals per year league-wide (at least that was what was reported on the radio when this first broke). I cannot imagine they would use up their appeal on that kind of thing.

Maybe, but they only get so many of these cases anyways and very rarely are they for players that actually matter too much to the league. Therefor it could be as simple as they see this as having a chance to at least be reduced.

Of course I believe there has already been talk that he didn't realize that he had taken the substance so it seems more likely that their argument will be more in that lane.

 

[Hoop Head]

The players association is only allowed two appeals per year league-wide (at least that was what was reported on the radio when this first broke). I cannot imagine they would use up their appeal on that kind of thing.

They can appeal things all year long. They fast tracked this and that's what is limited, they're only able to mark 2 cases for fast tracking a season. I'll find info on that. While looking for specifics on that I found this piece by Sports Illustrated that details this whole case, other than the appeal being fast tracked, quite thoroughly. It's not specifically stated but it's suggested that the NBPA is arguing on Ayton's behalf to set a precedent that a player who tested positive for a diuretic shouldn't receive the same penalty as someone who takes a known performance enhancing drug. This case would set the precedent in case this happened again.

Here is that article detailing the suspension and appeal. It's quite informative and is the most complete article I've seen so far on the suspension. It talks about why diuretics are banned, other NBA players who have failed drug tests, and also what the positive test means beyond this suspension. Apparently Ayton will now be put in the NBA's drug program and tested more frequently going forward. That could be a reason for the appeal also, to keep him from being part of that. I can't imagine the players association, Suns, or Ayton want this cloud hanging over him beyond this year. Being put in the drug program for failing a test like he did would suck. I can see why that would be contested.

https://www.si.com/nba/2019/10/25/deandre-ayton-phoenix-suns-suspension-drug-policy-violation


I'll post more info on the appeals process fast tracking when I find it.

 

[Hoop Head]

The players association is only allowed two appeals per year league-wide (at least that was what was reported on the radio when this first broke). I cannot imagine they would use up their appeal on that kind of thing.

Found it, from an ESPN article by Woj...

The NBPA has the ability to expedite two cases a year with the league, and sources say it's likely the union will use one of them on Ayton to try to get him back on the court as soon possible.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Wasn’t it supposed to be heard last week?

 

[JCSunsfan]

Wasn’t it supposed to be heard last week?

I thought it was today.

 

[TJ]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Ayton has company

 

[AzStevenCal]

Ayton has company

Bummed. It would have been better for us (I think) if no one else had joined this group until after Ayton's case was reviewed. It just seems to me that cutting his suspension without doing something similar for Collins isn't going to fly well. And while we don't know what Ayton did, it would appear that Collins was out and out cheating.

 

[Johninromania]

This is what drives me nuts about anti-doping, what Collins came out hot for shouldn’t be considered a performance enhancer. Growth hormones and peptides are for recovery and injury prevention. These should be available to every man and should be promoted not demonized.

 

[JCSunsfan]

This is what drives me nuts about anti-doping, what Collins came out hot for shouldn’t be considered a performance enhancer. Growth hormones and peptides are for recovery and injury prevention. These should be available to every man and should be promoted not demonized.

I agree with this. This is a sport where you get a lot of injuries. Players should have what they need available to them to recover. The whole point of restricting PED's is to protect the players from destroying their own health in order to be competitive. This loses sight of the big picture.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I agree with this. This is a sport where you get a lot of injuries. Players should have what they need available to them to recover. The whole point of restricting PED's is to protect the players from destroying their own health in order to be competitive. This loses sight of the big picture.

I would say the whole point of restricting PED's has far more to do with perception and with the potential for misuse and abuse by our youth. I really doubt that human growth hormone is actually doing anywhere near the damage to adult athletes that playing the game does.

 

[Mainstreet]

Bummed. It would have been better for us (I think) if no one else had joined this group until after Ayton's case was reviewed. It just seems to me that cutting his suspension without doing something similar for Collins isn't going to fly well. And while we don't know what Ayton did, it would appear that Collins was out and out cheating.

It doesn't help, that's for sure.

I wonder if taking a diuretic would have altered the test results for Collins or anyone with PED results.

 

[Mainstreet]

This seems to be part of John Collins defense.

From ESPN:


"I have always been incredibly careful about what I put in my body, but I took a supplement, which, unbeknownst to me, had been contaminated with an illegal component. I plan to appeal my suspension in arbitration so I can get back on the court as soon as possible and continue to contribute to our 2019-20 campaign."


https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/28012876/hawks-john-collins-suspended-25-games-peds

 

[Johninromania]

I’ve been on it for two years, and let me tell you my quality of life has improved greatly. And it’s easy to get a prescription for it, in the states cost is a issue but here it’s half the cost and the prescription note is like five bucks.

 

[Johninromania]

This seems to be part of John Collins defense.

From ESPN:


"I have always been incredibly careful about what I put in my body, but I took a supplement, which, unbeknownst to me, had been contaminated with an illegal component. I plan to appeal my suspension in arbitration so I can get back on the court as soon as possible and continue to contribute to our 2019-20 campaign."


https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/28012876/hawks-john-collins-suspended-25-games-peds

If it’s a peptide it’s not illegal.

 

[Hoop Head]

If it’s a peptide it’s not illegal.

It's not allowed according to the CBA. We're now talking about semantics though. Whether he says it was unapproved, illegal, or disallowed, the result is the same.

 

[Mainstreet]

If it’s a peptide it’s not illegal.

I'm not familiar with these things. If it's deemed illegal under NBA rules that's all it takes.

 

[Mainstreet]

Adrian Wojnarowski‏Verified account @wojespn

Since the summer, that's three players -- Brooklyn's Wilson Chandler, Phoenix's DeAndre Ayton and now Atlanta's John Collins -- hit for 25 games in violation of NBA/NBPA Anti-Drug policy.

7:59 AM - 5 Nov 2019

 

[Johninromania]

I'm not familiar with these things. If it's deemed illegal under NBA rules that's all it takes.

I was using it in a legal sense of state and federal law. It’s a banned substance.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I would say the whole point of restricting PED's has far more to do with perception and with the potential for misuse and abuse by our youth. I really doubt that human growth hormone is actually doing anywhere near the damage to adult athletes that playing the game does.

I disagree. All kinds of medications are allowed that help with pain, recovery and more. PED's historically are notorious for doing damage to an athlete's health long term The pressure to sacrifice the future for the present is huge. No one wants a league where it is essential to cut your life expectancy short to be competitive.

For instance. Creatine helps with muscle-building and recovery. It is a PED. But it has been tested thoroughly and is safe, so it is allowed.

That is the big picture.

 

[itlnsunsfan]

I imagine some of it also has to do with preserving historical sports context. We measure greatness based on the performance of previous athletes in history. If steroids are permitted, those historical examples are no longer relevant measuring sticks. Sports would essentially be starting over again in determining the greatest athletes of all time.

 

[WildBB]

I imagine some of it also has to do with preserving historical sports context. We measure greatness based on the performance of previous athletes in history. If steroids are permitted, those historical examples are no longer relevant measuring sticks. Sports would essentially be starting over again in determining the greatest athletes of all time.

It's generally acknowledged that there are different era's in professional sports. Original, Expanded, Updated, Modern I, II, ect.

In Baseball for instance you have original circa 1885/90-1919 (White Sox scandal).

Then an expanded league post WWI/ teams, rosters 1920-1945

Traditional era, relocations 1945-1969

Updated divisions and playoffs formats 1969.

Modern Era I ~ Free Agency! 5 man rotations, Set up and Closing specialists. DH's. 1973-1975~

Modern Era II ~ PED's/Steroids, Bat technology, 1990's~
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_in_baseball

Modern Era III ~ Anylytics/Humidors, Enhanced BB's
2010-2019

There's much that goes into historical stats,

 

[itlnsunsfan]

It's generally acknowledged that there are different era's in professional sports. Original, Expanded, Updated, Modern I, II, ect.

In Baseball for instance you have original circa 1885/90-1919 (White Sox scandal).

Then an expanded league post WWI/ teams, rosters 1920-1945

Traditional era, relocations 1945-1969

Updated divisions and playoffs formats 1969.

Modern Era I ~ Free Agency! 5 man rotations, Set up and Closing specialists. DH's. 1973-1975~

Modern Era II ~ PED's/Steroids, Bat technology, 1990's~
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_in_baseball

Modern Era III ~ Anylytics/Humidors, Enhanced BB's
2010-2019

There's much that goes into historical stats,

Yes, different eras of sports organization, but not human ability. I was specifically thinking of the steroid asterisk era in baseball, and how athletic accomplishment associated with this era is dismissed relative to previous accomplishments. For example, Babe Ruth's home run record was, and still is, one of the most celebrated in sports history, whereas Barry Bonds can't even get into the Hall of Fame.