Kyler, Kingsbury and Keim

[az jam]

Kyler, Kingsbury and Keim

Kyler
I do like Kyler Murray. IMO he really is very similar to Russell Wilson. Both have strong arms and move well in and out of the pocket. Can also make plays with their legs. Was at the game yesterday and the big difference is that Wilson is more poised and doesn’t make the rookie mistakes. I’m glad we took Murray and feel the Cards can build a good team around him. He is much better than Rosen.

Kingsbury

I also like Kingsbury and am optimistic on his offense. They are moving the ball and it's not just 3 and punt like last year. They need to get better in the red zone for sure. He is also a decent game manager. I have not really second guessed him on his play calling except that he should have run DJ more in the red zone against the Lions. He did admit that he blew it. I want Kingsbury back next year but I’m not sold on Vance Joseph as our DC.

Keim

I was happy when MB fired Graves and promoted Keim. He and Arians worked well for the first three years. However, he has drafted poorly and failed to build a solid offensive line and now the defense is in bad shape. Things have gotten worse since his DUI; not sure if that is related to anything. I don’t believe that head coaches or general managers should be fired during the season. That accomplishes nothing. However, I think MB needs to start looking for a replacement and not from within but get a solid guy from a winning organization. That might not be easy. Bottom line for me is that Keim time is over.

 

[Zeno]

I am right there with you. Kyler shows promise (as long as he continues to develop), it's too early to give up on Kingsbury but I have my doubts about Joseph and Keim needs to go.

 

[AZCB34]

What has given anyone any indication that Kingsbury will suddenly blossom as an NFL HC? He never had the light turn on in college and suddenly was dominant or even average.

I am beginning to have my doubts about Kliff. I have no desire to compare him to the abomination of last year.

Murray is showing signs but if there was ever a player who might be effected by all the losing...

Keim should have been gone when he heard the click of the cuffs on his wrist

 

[az jam]

I am right there with you. Kyler shows promise (as long as he continues to develop), it's too early to give up on Kingsbury but I have my doubts about Joseph and Keim needs to go.

We are on the same page.

 

[Chopper0080]

What has given anyone any indication that Kingsbury will suddenly blossom as an NFL HC? He never had the light turn on in college and suddenly was dominant or even average.

I am beginning to have my doubts about Kliff. I have no desire to compare him to the abomination of last year.

Murray is showing signs but if there was ever a player who might be effected by all the losing...

Keim should have been gone when he heard the click of the cuffs on his wrist

With Kingsbury you can see him making adjustments. Adjustments to personnel packages, run/pass ratio, and a calm demeanor of someone who is figuring out answers. We saw DJ and Chase used both in the backfield yesterday...which is very smart if you see DJ is more impactful as a Larry Centers type player than Zeke Elliott. We saw what seemed like more usage if the TE on vertical seam routes. A way better run/pass ratio after he admitted we abandoned it too early the week before. We have seen more designed runs for Kyler as he has shown he is not inherently going to look to run on his own. We are working on the screen game to slow pass rushes down.

There are several adjustments being made on offense that stubborn coaches who believe their scheme works do not make. Yes, our offense needs to be more vertical, but that will likely come as Murray gets more comfortable navigating a NFL pocket.

 

[SoonerLou]

My problem with Kingsbury is that you gotta get the coordinators right during your first year. It just is such a hurdle to keep replacing coordinators. Don't know if Vance is the guy. In terms of offense...Kliff is learning on the job. Thats tough as well. Doesn't have years of NFL experience of knowing what works in this league.

Experience and Keim are the biggest weaknesses for Kyler and Kliff. Kliff is learning what to call, Kyler's lack of college experience is hurting him as a pro. Just doesn't have the savvyness yet. Keim hasnt proved a roster that could help out.

If Kliff was more experienced....probably sitting at 2-2 right now.

Or

If Kyler was just a better QB...probably sitting at 2-2 right now.

Lets hope they figure it out.

 

[Chopper0080]

My problem with Kingsbury is that you gotta get the coordinators right during your first year. It just is such a hurdle to keep replacing coordinators. Don't know if Vance is the guy. In terms of offense...Kliff is learning on the job. Thats tough as well. Doesn't have years of NFL experience of knowing what works in this league.

Experience and Keim are the biggest weaknesses for Kyler and Kliff. Kliff is learning what to call, Kyler's lack of college experience is hurting him as a pro. Just doesn't have the savvyness yet. Keim hasnt proved a roster that could help out.

If Kliff was more experienced....probably sitting at 2-2 right now.

Or

If Kyler was just a better QB...probably sitting at 2-2 right now.

Lets hope they figure it out.

Vance is ok for now. I would not fire him going into next year unless a top NFL coordinator comes available. If Vic Fangio gets fired...you get Fangio. If Dan Quinn gets fired, you stick with Vance. Mike Zimmer gets canned...go get him. The Cardinals need to get in a habit of having a replacement before they create holes.

 

[Southpaw]

Vance is ok for now. I would not fire him going into next year unless a top NFL coordinator comes available. If Vic Fangio gets fired...you get Fangio. If Dan Quinn gets fired, you stick with Vance. Mike Zimmer gets canned...go get him. The Cardinals need to get in a habit of having a replacement before they create holes.

Every rookie coach has huge problems putting together a staff. They get castoffs and failures for the most part.

 

[slanidrac16]

With Kingsbury you can see him making adjustments. Adjustments to personnel packages, run/pass ratio, and a calm demeanor of someone who is figuring out answers. We saw DJ and Chase used both in the backfield yesterday...which is very smart if you see DJ is more impactful as a Larry Centers type player than Zeke Elliott. We saw what seemed like more usage if the TE on vertical seam routes. A way better run/pass ratio after he admitted we abandoned it too early the week before. We have seen more designed runs for Kyler as he has shown he is not inherently going to look to run on his own. We are working on the screen game to slow pass rushes down.

There are several adjustments being made on offense that stubborn coaches who believe their scheme works do not make. Yes, our offense needs to be more vertical, but that will likely come as Murray gets more comfortable navigating a NFL pocket.

Excellent post!!!!

 

[Garthshort]

Thought I read that the FO selected the DC.

 

[az jam]

Vance is ok for now. I would not fire him going into next year unless a top NFL coordinator comes available. If Vic Fangio gets fired...you get Fangio. If Dan Quinn gets fired, you stick with Vance. Mike Zimmer gets canned...go get him. The Cardinals need to get in a habit of having a replacement before they create holes.

Good stuff and totally agree with you. Should give DC Vance another year especially if we can bring in better defensive players in free agency and the draft.

 

[DVontel]

I don’t like Vance Joseph’s philosophy because I don’t like zone majority of the time.

 

[Russ Smith]

I don’t like Vance Joseph’s philosophy because I don’t like zone majority of the time.

Agreed although with PP out and the guys we had back there maybe he felt he had to.

I think it's hard to evaluate him here because there's not a ton of talent on the defense right now. Chandler is great, Suggs has been pretty good, Peters makes some plays, the LB's all basically stink, we were playing 2 strong safeties presumably because he felt the young guys weren't ready. Lost both starting CB's before season started.

I don't think he's great but I think given the talent he's got to work with the defense has been ok. The problem is as we all see everytime we score a TD and need a stop to rally, the defense folds and gives up a long drive. I think that's in part a function of the zone you talk about.

at one point yesterday a backup DL got a sack totally unblocked, I thought what a great scheme until I saw the replay, literally 3 guys blocked Chandler leaving the other guy unblocked. It got me wondering if we should experiment with Suggs and Chandler on the same side and say Marsh on the other side in passing downs so if they load up on Jones, Suggs can bring the heat. We have seen teams in the past play multiple outside rushers together even lining some up inside.

 

[football karma]

Yes, our offense needs to be more vertical,

I agree with all you wrote -- I see creativity, adjustments and thoughtful attacking of a given scheme ( The DJ middle screen with two blockers as an example -)

I think the vertical will frustrate us all season -- Carolina saw what happened to Balt, so they went cover three, keep everything in front, rush four / five. Seattle did the same thing (which is their MO regardless).

This will be the formula the Cardinal offense will see for the rest of the year --

Ds will force a young QB to be efficient & bet on the fact that in a 11-15 play drive necessary to get a TD -- the defensive front 4 will beat the Card o-line one of those plays for a sack to end said drive.

 

[cardpa]

Agreed although with PP out and the guys we had back there maybe he felt he had to.

I think it's hard to evaluate him here because there's not a ton of talent on the defense right now. Chandler is great, Suggs has been pretty good, Peters makes some plays, the LB's all basically stink, we were playing 2 strong safeties presumably because he felt the young guys weren't ready. Lost both starting CB's before season started.

I don't think he's great but I think given the talent he's got to work with the defense has been ok. The problem is as we all see everytime we score a TD and need a stop to rally, the defense folds and gives up a long drive. I think that's in part a function of the zone you talk about.

at one point yesterday a backup DL got a sack totally unblocked, I thought what a great scheme until I saw the replay, literally 3 guys blocked Chandler leaving the other guy unblocked. It got me wondering if we should experiment with Suggs and Chandler on the same side and say Marsh on the other side in passing downs so if they load up on Jones, Suggs can bring the heat. We have seen teams in the past play multiple outside rushers together even lining some up inside.

Russ, you pretty much said what I was just thinking about and was going to post. Everyone is talking about the dearth of talent on the offense when in reality there is just as much if not more lack of talent on the defensive side too. What does Vance have to work with? It's not very much. Outside of Jones and to some extent Peters there isn't much else left in terms of quality talent. You have a guy like Gunter starting when no other team in the NFL thought enough of him to sign him as a FA. They just dumped the starting free safety in Swearinger. I mean the barrel is pretty empty.

 

[DVontel]

I think Kyler will be responsible for ending Dan Quinn’s career with Atlanta.

He’ll probably have a decent game against Cincy & less likely against New Orleans, but I truly think against Atlanta Kyler will go ballistic & be his full coming out party.

Atlanta just look like they have checked out already.

 

[Chopper0080]

I don’t like Vance Joseph’s philosophy because I don’t like zone majority of the time.

I am curious to see if that continues once Peterson and Alford are back.

 

[conraddobler]

While I am not unsold on KK, I'm not sold either and the reality is that if Keim goes then so likely will he.

Unless ownership talks the new GM into keeping him which would be a terrible idea as it will shew all the good GM candidates right out the door.

A new GM is going to want to flush and start over with their coach, even hinting to them that you would like them to give our coach a chance will tell the top tier GM's to run for the hills IMO.