Suns have 6th pick and 32nd pick in 2019 draft.

Chris_Sanders

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I don't mind the idea of getting Tyus Jones or Russell, but those of you wanting to swing big trades to land them on an extension... I really don't get the logic.

You don't give up assets to sign free agents, I don't care if they're restricted. If Russell leaves Brooklyn it will be because they won't be able/willing to retain that level of salary, giving them assets for a player their going to lose makes no sense. When guys get shipped in a sign and trade free agent deal it is virtually always for pennies on the dollar, something like, at most, the Bucks pick for Russell.

Because we don't have the cap space to add a young and up and coming PG, keep Oubre, and add at PF

This is just the reality of our situation. We will have to pay assets to address all of our needs
 

Chris_Sanders

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agreed. It literally makes ZERO sense.

Here's a FA... his team isn't going to re-sign him. Let's give them Warren, Jackson and a lottery pick for no reason whatsoever except to shed possible assets, even if they might not be great assets.

Except those teams will match your offer. They aren't real free agents
 

Phrazbit

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Because we don't have the cap space to add a young and up and coming PG, keep Oubre, and add at PF

This is just the reality of our situation. We will have to pay assets to address all of our needs

So ship those parts else where for something tangible (or just stretch Tyler Johnson), don't just chuck them to Brooklyn for no reason.
 

Chris_Sanders

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So ship those parts else where for something tangible (or just stretch Tyler Johnson), don't just chuck them to Brooklyn for no reason.

If you stretch Tyler Johnson you are impacting your cap space next year

Warren faked injury and won't be here next year no matter what. His value is a late first rounder or early 2nd rounder.

Jackson is super hated in this board and I believe to a fault but he is at his lowest value right now

The flagship radio station has openly said both guys will be gone next year and has done so for a month.

And again, stretching Tyler Johnson doesnt mean you can sign a restricted free agent. They can just match and trade Russell for value later
 

Phrazbit

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If you stretch Tyler Johnson you are impacting your cap space next year

Warren faked injury and won't be here next year no matter what. His value is a late first rounder or early 2nd rounder.

Jackson is super hated in this board and I believe to a fault but he is at his lowest value right now

The flagship radio station has openly said both guys will be gone next year and has done so for a month.

And again, stretching Tyler Johnson doesnt mean you can sign a restricted free agent. They can just match and trade Russell for value later

First off... the only reason Russell is available to be signed is because Brooklyn has grand designs for that cap space in the immediate future; so no, they can't match and sign later.

Secondly, a stretched Tyler Johnson will run us about 6 mil on next year's cap... a paltry sum compared to giving away the #6 pick, Warren and Jackson.

Last, if Warren is only worth a late 1st then... fine! Take it! It's better than giving him to Brooklyn for nothing. And I do think we will be able to move him fairly easily, there are a TON of teams with space and players worthy of it are going to get gobbled up fast. I agree with your thoughts on Jackson. But, regardless, they're still assets and dumping them for no reason (especially along with the #6 pick) is inane.

Actually, that brings up another point. Brooklyn wouldn't take Warren anyway, they need the cap space, which renders the entire thing moot.
 

Chris_Sanders

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I never said Warren and Jackson. I said one of Warren or Jackson and you still end up with the 11th pick

Stop just making crap up to fit your non reality narratives
 

Chris_Sanders

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And we aren't signing Russell. That ship has sailed. The flagship radio station told you this
 

Chris_Sanders

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This fantasy that you can just sign restricted free agents and get them with zero assets given up just flies in the face of NBA reality

Either you sign and trade
They match
Or you massively over pay

We cant massively over pay

In theory you don't want them to match and just hold your cap space

Thus you have to give assets

That is the freaking reality
 

Phrazbit

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I never said Warren and Jackson. I said one of Warren or Jackson and you still end up with the 11th pick

Stop just making crap up to fit your non reality narratives


Woah, pump the breaks there chief.

My first post in response was not directed at you, it was to the broader conversation, and yes, in this thread there was plenty of debate on moving #6, Warren and Jackson for Russell.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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This fantasy that you can just sign restricted free agents and get them with zero assets given up just flies in the face of NBA reality

Either you sign and trade
They match
Or you massively over pay

We cant massively over pay

In theory you don't want them to match and just hold your cap space

Thus you have to give assets

That is the freaking reality
What you’re continuing to miss is the fact that the nets need to clear space to get who they want. This isn’t them trying to recoup assets.
 

GatorAZ

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Brooklyn can’t take back any salary because they wouldn’t be able to afford two max slots. This this whole conversation is a waste of time.
 

Phrazbit

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This fantasy that you can just sign restricted free agents and get them with zero assets given up just flies in the face of NBA reality

Either you sign and trade
They match
Or you massively over pay

We cant massively over pay

In theory you don't want them to match and just hold your cap space

Thus you have to give assets

That is the freaking reality

Unless the team is looking at letting the player go entirely because they don't have the space to match a big offer AND land their big free agents.

Which is Brooklyn's reality.

Brooklyn can’t take back any salary because they wouldn’t be able to afford two max slots. This this whole conversation is a waste of time.

Exactly.
 

Chris_Sanders

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They can absolutely match. They have a restricted cap hold, can sign their free agents, and then match a week later to go over the cap

Do you not understand restricted free agents?
 

Chris_Sanders

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Brooklyn can’t take back any salary because they wouldn’t be able to afford two max slots. This this whole conversation is a waste of time.

Wrong. They just have the same cap hold they have now until they match
 

GatorAZ

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They can absolutely match. They have a restricted cap hold, can sign their free agents, and then match a week later to go over the cap

Do you not understand restricted free agents?

They don’t have two max slots unless they renounce their RFA’s. Once that happens he’ll be unrestricted.
 

Chris_Sanders

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They don’t have two max slots unless they renounce their RFA’s. Once that happens he’ll be unrestricted.

So to succinctly dial in your myriad of Assumptions are

#1. They sign 2 max slots

#2. They would rather let their all star go for free then just create the cap space they need

We have zero leverage. Zero. We sign him...they tie up our cap space for 15 days while they figure out their cap space. Then match and trade their all star for value
 

Phrazbit

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They can absolutely match. They have a restricted cap hold, can sign their free agents, and then match a week later to go over the cap

Do you not understand restricted free agents?

The window for matching free agents has been cut down to three days and Russell's cap hold is 21 million. Their goal is to sign 2 max guys, they can't sign 2 max free agents and keep him, period.
 

GatorAZ

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Wrong. They just have the same cap hold they have now until they match

Russell’s cap hold prevents them from signing two max players. They can not afford two max slots unless they renounce him. You can’t sign unrestricted free agents with money that’s not available.
 

Chris_Sanders

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And in the meantime, we might lose Oubre to a big offer we can't match if he signs before we go for Russell

This is why the flagship radio station is telling you we aren't signing Russell
 

Chris_Sanders

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Russell’s cap hold prevents them from signing two max players. They can not afford two max slots unless they renounce him. You can’t sign unrestricted free agents with money that’s not available.

What part of 15 days do you not understand? They can create cap space the same damn way we can while we sit and wait
 

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And in the meantime, we might lose Oubre to a big offer we can't match if he signs before we go for Russell

This is why the flagship radio station is telling you we aren't signing Russell
Is it for this reason, or because we are in the same boat as Broklyn. We have a cap hold with Oubre, and would likely have to renounce to sign Russell.

My question is, couldn't we sign Oubre now if we wanted, and in theory we could back end the deal. Assuming Oubre wanted to sign with us now, and take a back ended deal?
 

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