Now its about #16, 31, and 59

[JCSunsfan]

OK. Draftable Pgs. What are the chances these players become a starter in the NBA? I posted my initial thoughts here.

Young 85%
Sexton 75%
SGA 70%
Holiday 50%
Melton 40%
Brunson 30%
Shamet 35%
Graham 20%
Carter 40%
Carr 20%
Duvall 5%
Milton 15%

 

[overseascardfan]

OK. Draftable Pgs. What are the chances these players become a starter in the NBA? I posted my initial thoughts here.

Young 85%
Sexton 75%
SGA 70%
Holiday 50%
Melton 40%
Brunson 30%
Shamet 35%
Graham 20%
Carter 40%
Carr 20%
Duvall 5%
Milton 15%

You listing Doncic as a point forward?

 

[Mainstreet]

OK. Draftable Pgs. What are the chances these players become a starter in the NBA? I posted my initial thoughts here.

Young 85%
Sexton 75%
SGA 70%
Holiday 50%
Melton 40%
Brunson 30%
Shamet 35%
Graham 20%
Carter 40%
Carr 20%
Duvall 5%
Milton 15%

Mostly agree except I think Shamet has a better than 35% chance of becoming a starter. I think he should rank somewhere around Holiday.

 

[StreetTruckinTitan]

projectile vomit

You got a problem with proven PGs? Nothing wrong with his game if he's put in his natural position. The Suns made the mistake of playing him at the two. Koko wont be that stupid. He'll know where to play him so he'll help the team. I know he's getting a little older but he can be a bridge while grooming a potential future PG. All that BS before should never have happened and I dont blame Goran for the mess they put him in. McDumF**# has a way of doing that often to his players.

 

[elindholm]

McDumF**# has a way of doing that often to his players.

And he's still here, so unless you have a plan for replacing him, it makes no sense to bring in Dragic. Dragic does best as the first option on his team. That won't be the case if you ask him to be a teammate with Booker and Ayton.

Finally, Dragic is 32. I'm not one of those "timeline" guys, but the floor leader for the next two years should, at least, be someone who isn't past his prime.

 

[Hoop Head]

Would Goran be happy sharing the ball with Booker? Like it or not it's Booker's team now, could Dragic handle that? He hasn't shown the ability to share like that here in the past. I know Booker is a SG and Dragic is a PG but Booker does need the ball in his hands a lot also. It wouldn't be like playing next to Dion Waiters in Miami. Waiters is on a short leash in Miami and he has to defer to Dragic when his shots not falling or he'll get pulled, that won't happen with Booker. Could Dragic come here with Coach Kokoskov and not try to use his history to his advantage? I don't know but I'd rather not find out. How he left soured a lot of Suns fans on him and I don't think the Suns should give up much for a 32 year old PG who is making 25 million a year. Dragic has 1, maybe 2, years of being productive left, which coincides with his contract. What would it cost to resign him? If it's more than $10-15 million a year, it's too much, so why trade for a year of Dragic when we won't be a playoff this year with or without him?

 

[GatorAZ]

Would Goran be happy sharing the ball with Booker? Like it or not it's Booker's team now, could Dragic handle that? He hasn't shown the ability to share like that here in the past. I know Booker is a SG and Dragic is a PG but Booker does need the ball in his hands a lot also. It wouldn't be like playing next to Dion Waiters in Miami. Waiters is on a short leash in Miami and he has to defer to Dragic when his shots not falling or he'll get pulled, that won't happen with Booker. Could Dragic come here with Coach Kokoskov and not try to use his history to his advantage? I don't know but I'd rather not find out. How he left soured a lot of Suns fans on him and I don't think the Suns should give up much for a 32 year old PG who is making 25 million a year. Dragic has 1, maybe 2, years of being productive left, which coincides with his contract. What would it cost to resign him? If it's more than $10-15 million a year, it's too much, so why trade for a year of Dragic when we won't be a playoff this year with or without him?

Dragic has made his money. He wanted out because he was sharing a backcourt with Bledsoe and Isaiah in a contract year. Given his history with Igor i think he’d willing to accept more of a facilitator role.

 

[overseascardfan]

no way does he have value that high in a draft this good.

If ridiculous trade rumors like Jaylen Brown, #27 this year and a protected 2019 1st rounder to DAL for #5 have any credibility then Warren's value should be higher than you think. I would much rather have Warren than Brown plus PHX's picks are potentially much better than BOS.

 

[Cheesebeef]

If ridiculous trade rumors like Jaylen Brown, #27 this year and a protected 2019 1st rounder to DAL for #5 have any credibility then Warren's value should be higher than you think. I would much rather have Warren than Brown plus PHX's picks are potentially much better than BOS.

Jayden Brown's upside alone is makes him more valuable than Warren. He made a major leap in year 2, for a team that actually matters, shoots the 3 at 40% and plays D. Right there he's better than Warren. And the Milwaukee pick is bubkis, a mid-rounder at best and are we talking our next year unprotected?

 

[overseascardfan]

Jayden Brown's upside alone is makes him more valuable than Warren. He made a major leap in year 2, for a team that actually matters, shoots the 3 at 40% and plays D. Right there he's better than Warren. And the Milwaukee pick is bubkis, a mid-rounder at best and are we talking our next year unprotected?

What upside? He's a tweener just like Warren, but I would say their defense is actually quite equal looking at their numbers and TJ is much better offensively. TJ is only 2 years older at 24 years old so he still hasn't hit his prime. Brown shot better from 3pt range but overall shooting to include FT shooting edge goes to Warren.

I would much rather have a package of Warren, #16, #31 and MIL mid rounder next year than Brown and BOS garbage picks.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

What upside? He's a tweener just like Warren, but I would say their defense is actually quite equal looking at their numbers and TJ is much better offensively. TJ is only 2 years older at 24 years old so he still hasn't hit his prime. Brown shot better from 3pt range but overall shooting to include FT shooting edge goes to Warren.

I would much rather have a package of Warren, #16, #31 and MIL mid rounder next year than Brown and BOS garbage picks.

I don’t think there’s a team in the league that takes Warren over brown.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don’t think there’s a team in the league that takes Warren over brown.

I assumed that was true until I compared stats and now I'm not so sure? I don't follow Boston at all but looking solely at numbers, he seems to be a huge disappointment.

For example, and not that PER is everything, but Warren's worst year was better than Jaylen's best. Brown would have to be an exceptional defender to make up that difference and to me, it appears his greatest advantage over TJ is simply his age.

 

[Mainstreet]

Here is mock 4.0 from Evan Sidery. I'm not keen on his player rankings or the Suns selection of Lonnie Walker at #16.

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/...t=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

 

[AzStevenCal]

Here is mock 4.0 from Evan Sidery. I'm not keen on his player rankings or the Suns selection of Lonnie Walker at #16.

That's like the 3rd or 4th mock that has us taking Walker. All I know is what I've read but it's enough to make me want nothing to do with him. I don't see the appeal of a known under-achiever.

 

[sunsfan88]

I assumed that was true until I compared stats and now I'm not so sure? I don't follow Boston at all but looking solely at numbers, he seems to be a huge disappointment.

For example, and not that PER is everything, but Warren's worst year was better than Jaylen's best. Brown would have to be an exceptional defender to make up that difference and to me, it appears his greatest advantage over TJ is simply his age.

He’s not. There was a thread in the Celtics forum about if they would trade Jaylen Brown for a top 5 pick to draft Bamba and an overwhelming majority said hell no.

If you asked Suns fans if they would trade Warren for a top 5 pick, Suns fans would offer to pack his bags and call the uber to the airport for him.

 

[Mainstreet]

That's like the 3rd or 4th mock that has us taking Walker. All I know is what I've read but it's enough to make me want nothing to do with him. I don't see the appeal of a known under-achiever.

I mostly read Sidery for a different viewpoint and additional information. Seldom do I agree with him on player rankings or evaluations. We agree... no Walker at #16.

 

[Mainstreet]

He’s not. There was a thread in the Celtics forum about if they would trade Jaylen Brown for a top 5 pick to draft Bamba and an overwhelming majority said hell no.

If you asked Suns fans if they would trade Warren for a top 5 pick, Suns fans would offer to pack his bags and call the uber to the airport for him.

I like Warren but I would help him pack for another top 5 pick.

However, I wouldn't use it on Bamba... not that I don't like him. The Suns have other needs if they draft Ayton at #1.

 

[sunsfan88]

OK. Draftable Pgs. What are the chances these players become a starter in the NBA? I posted my initial thoughts here.

Young 85%
Sexton 75%
SGA 70%
Holiday 50%
Melton 40%
Brunson 30%
Shamet 35%
Graham 20%
Carter 40%
Carr 20%
Duvall 5%
Milton 15%

You don’t have Okobo on this list?

 

[Mainstreet]

I used to like him but his lack of development defensively and shooting wise has soured on me.

In today’s NBA, you’re expected to do both to be a great role player and at least one to be a starter and yet he can’t do either.

I guess it comes down to how a player is viewed. Warren is a great complimentary player on a reasonable salary who knows how to put points on the board. I'm satisfied with this because I don't expect more. His stats are quite decent. Hopefully the Suns will bring him off the bench because there is not much of a drop off when he enters the game.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

I mostly read Sidery for a different viewpoint and additional information. Seldom do I agree with him on player rankings or evaluations. We agree... no Walker at #16.

The good news on Walker is his stock seems to be rising more often than falling. Of course, this is based almost entirely on conjecture, but it makes sense. He has some star qualities that certain teams would likely covet more than the Suns will.

The Suns have been in "asset collection" mode for the past few years, just trying to collect as much talent as possible and hoping some of those assets turn into stars. Now that they've got a star in Booker and two promising potential cornerstones with him in Jackson and Ayton (presumably), a player like Walker is less attractive.

The Suns now are looking for the right players to fit around their stars, but many of the teams before them are still looking for stars, and Walker is one of the better gambles in the 10-15 range.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I assumed that was true until I compared stats and now I'm not so sure? I don't follow Boston at all but looking solely at numbers, he seems to be a huge disappointment.

For example, and not that PER is everything, but Warren's worst year was better than Jaylen's best. Brown would have to be an exceptional defender to make up that difference and to me, it appears his greatest advantage over TJ is simply his age.

And this illustrates why relying only on PER is a fatally flawed course of analysis. Brown is a MUCH better defender. He’s much more athletic and he shoots a better 3 ball. In other words, he stresses a defense and doesn’t give it up on the other end. I like Warren, but like I said before - likely not a single GM trades brown for Warren.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The good news on Walker is his stock seems to be rising more often than falling. Of course, this is based almost entirely on conjecture, but it makes sense. He has some star qualities that certain teams would likely covet more than the Suns will.

The Suns have been in "asset collection" mode for the past few years, just trying to collect as much talent as possible and hoping some of those assets turn into stars. Now that they've got a star in Booker and two promising potential cornerstones with him in Jackson and Ayton (presumably), a player like Walker is less attractive.

The Suns now are looking for the right players to fit around their stars, but many of the teams before them are still looking for stars, and Walker is one of the better gambles in the 10-15 range.

That’s an interesting take. That said I don’t think the suns can count their chickens before they’re hatched quite yet. We still need to try to collect stars. If we have an over abundance I’m sure we will figure something out.

 

[Mainstreet]

The good news on Walker is his stock seems to be rising more often than falling. Of course, this is based almost entirely on conjecture, but it makes sense. He has some star qualities that certain teams would likely covet more than the Suns will.

The Suns have been in "asset collection" mode for the past few years, just trying to collect as much talent as possible and hoping some of those assets turn into stars. Now that they've got a star in Booker and two promising potential cornerstones with him in Jackson and Ayton (presumably), a player like Walker is less attractive.

The Suns now are looking for the right players to fit around their stars, but many of the teams before them are still looking for stars, and Walker is one of the better gambles in the 10-15 range.

I guess I would rather gamble on another player at #16. He tore the meniscus in his right knee so this raised a red flag for me. As described in the second link, he is a boom or bust type player.

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/college/acc/university-of-miami/article161773333.html

https://www.clipsnation.com/2018/6/...iv-would-be-a-massive-gamble-for-the-clippers

 

[Mr. Boldin]

I assumed that was true until I compared stats and now I'm not so sure? I don't follow Boston at all but looking solely at numbers, he seems to be a huge disappointment.

For example, and not that PER is everything, but Warren's worst year was better than Jaylen's best. Brown would have to be an exceptional defender to make up that difference and to me, it appears his greatest advantage over TJ is simply his age.

Honestly, its not close at all. Brown has elite athleticism, has proven to be a quality defender across three positions, and his offensive game has expanded far beyond what I ever imagined he would reach already. For a guy who couldnt hit a 10 foot jumper, the dude shot 39.5% from three on 4.4 attempts per game at age 21.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

That’s an interesting take. That said I don’t think the suns can count their chickens before they’re hatched quite yet. We still need to try to collect stars. If we have an over abundance I’m sure we will figure something out.

Yeah...This is one of those takes where the thoughts in my head are more nuanced than what I posted, but I'm definitely still for the Suns trying to acquire stars.

I figure that when looking at a prospect several factors come into play, including:

• Fit with the current roster
• Style of play
• Skill strengths and weaknesses
• Likelihood to reach potential
• Star potential

That is, of course, a grossly simplified and incomplete summary but I'm just using it to illustrate my point.

Two years ago, the "star potential" part of that may have been weighted as the most important factor for the talent-depleted Suns. It's still definitely a huge positive, but I think the Suns can afford to be a bit pickier on the other factors going forward.

I think Walker grades poorly in those first four factors. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, whom I think has much less chance to be a traditional star, grades out better than Walker in all of the first four areas imho.

If I'm the Suns, SGA is a no-brainer. If I'm the Clippers, Walker's star potential is REALLY appealing.