Bettcher, Pagano, and McCoy

[Cheesebeef]

No.

This is purely BA trying to leverage whatever relationship savvy he has left to benefit a young guy he likes on his way out the door.

Pagano?? Not even a has been...he is a defeated man. The only thing he has managed to do is destroy Andrew Luck and you want him here?

People here are so scared of change.

 

[sdscard4]

People here are so scared of change.

I don't mind change. BA has given us 5 damn good years. From 1988 till 2008 8-8 had us feeling pretty good....now it feels like 4-12. I like that feeling . So yeah I'm not really wanting change. I've seen that movie before

 

[oaken1]

People here are so scared of change.

yeah??.... well poo, lets promote Big Red to HC...dude does a keg stand like its nobodys business...pretty sure the team will play hard for him... he has much more time with the team than Betcher and has been a highly successful mascot..
I mean hell...especially if we are just reaching for Pagano as a coordinator

BA is gone..... cut the tree down and move on.

as much as I love old school football the game is changing right now. we need a coach who understands and can adapt to those changes.

and one who at least has experience developing a young QB for our offense

 

[CFLredzoned]

Now this makes alot more sense...

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[azsouthendzone]

yeah??.... well ****, lets promote Big Red to HC...dude does a keg stand like its nobodys business...pretty sure the team will play hard for him... he has much more time with the team than Betcher and has been a highly successful mascot..
I mean hell...especially if we are just reaching for Pagano as a coordinator

BA is gone..... cut the tree down and move on.

as much as I love old school football the game is changing right now. we need a coach who understands and can adapt to those changes.

and one who at least has experience developing a young QB for our offense

So over the top.

 

[AZ Native]

I believe points per game is the #1 stat for a defense. It is the only one that matters at the end of the game.

 

[AZ Native]

I read the first post and then made sure it was January 1st, not April 1st.

 

[oaken1]

lol

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Hmmm....

http://www.nfl.com/stats/team



Cards defense are also: 4th in yards allowed per play (Amazing)
6th in third down percentage (Sort of surprised here)
19th in 4th down conversion allowed percentage (Not surprised here)
17th in sacks
12th in TDs allowed
12th in interceptions
3rd in forced fumbles

Meanwhile offense and defense go hand in hand. If you can't move the ball, you will be back on defense.

Cards were #22 in offensive yards
#24 in 3rd down conversions
#19 in 4th down conversions
#30 in sacks allowed
#4 in total INTs
#5 in total Fumbles
#31 in passing accuracy


Interesting when you look at the whole picture instead of trying to cherry pick one thing to fit your narrative.

 

[sdscard4]

Hmmm....

http://www.nfl.com/stats/team



Cards defense are also: 4th in yards allowed per play (Amazing)
6th in third down percentage (Sort of surprised here)
19th in 4th down conversion allowed percentage (Not surprised here)
17th in sacks
12th in TDs allowed
12th in interceptions
3rd in forced fumbles

Meanwhile offense and defense go hand in hand. If you can't move the ball, you will be back on defense.

Cards were #22 in offensive yards
#24 in 3rd down conversions
#19 in 4th down conversions
#30 in sacks allowed
#4 in total INTs
#5 in total Fumbles
#31 in passing accuracy


Interesting when you look at the whole picture instead of trying to cherry pick one thing to fit your narrative.

Yeah offense didn't do our D any favors.I'm really impressed with those numbers. Shows just how pathetic our protection and offense really was

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Yeah offense didn't do our D any favors.I'm really impressed with those numbers. Shows just how pathetic our protection and offense really was

I didn't even get into the special teams, which we all know how bad those were. I really didn't care for Bettcher prior to this thread but he had a good year.

Not good enough to be our next head coach imo, but he will find a spot on someone's staff for sure.

 

[sr7706]

I find it interesting that during the last broadcast, the announcers brought up the point that the defense didn't "turn it around" until after the meeting PP21 had with Bettcher to simplify the defense. Pile that on top of getting to see our defense blatenly not be ready and be out of position for the snap as they were exposed on a coaching session during an episode of hard knocks I believe. I am in the court that we were a decent defense in spite of him, not because of him.

 

[AZ Native]

Cards defense are also: 4th in yards allowed per play (Amazing)
6th in third down percentage (Sort of surprised here)
19th in 4th down conversion allowed percentage (Not surprised here)
17th in sacks
12th in TDs allowed
12th in interceptions
3rd in forced fumbles

Meanwhile offense and defense go hand in hand. If you can't move the ball, you will be back on defense.

Cards were #22 in offensive yards
#24 in 3rd down conversions
#19 in 4th down conversions
#30 in sacks allowed
#4 in total INTs
#5 in total Fumbles
#31 in passing accuracy


Interesting when you look at the whole picture instead of trying to cherry pick one thing to fit your narrative.

So you think points allowed is cherry picking? At the end of the game it is the ONLY thing that matters. That's like saying we had 500 yards of offense, but only managed 10 points, but it is not our fault we lost.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I fixed your quote fail for you Az Native.

Well lets look at your analogy. 500 yards of offense and 10 points.

So if you only looked at one of those stats they would tell you different things. You could use either stat to fit a narrative you are trying to force.

This is why you look at a complete picture. You don't analyze from one data point.

I will give you a very specific example of why you can't just look at the score. The Denny Green bears game.

We lost that game 24 - 23. If the score is the "only thing that matters when judging a defense", then the defense had a bad game. Except...the defense only allowed 3 points that game.

The Bears had 2 defensive TDs and a Kick Return TD.

The Cardinals defense allowed just 168 yards that game and only allowed 28% on third downs and stopped them on 4th down.


I will tell you the defense played a great game and the score didn't reflect it.

 

[AZ Native]

That is why I used a season average, not just one game. It all averages out in the long run.
Obviously we disagree on this, but that is OK, we all have an opinion. No harm no foul.

 

[oaken1]

Hmmm....

http://www.nfl.com/stats/team



Cards defense are also: 4th in yards allowed per play (Amazing)
6th in third down percentage (Sort of surprised here)
19th in 4th down conversion allowed percentage (Not surprised here)
17th in sacks
12th in TDs allowed
12th in interceptions
3rd in forced fumbles

Meanwhile offense and defense go hand in hand. If you can't move the ball, you will be back on defense.

Cards were #22 in offensive yards
#24 in 3rd down conversions
#19 in 4th down conversions
#30 in sacks allowed
#4 in total INTs
#5 in total Fumbles
#31 in passing accuracy


Interesting when you look at the whole picture instead of trying to cherry pick one thing to fit your narrative.

this is true... had our offense stayed on the field and scored a few more points our defensive numbers would in fact look better.
sadly, early in the season we were winning T.O.P., and total yards.... but still getting our arse handed to us...a product of poor ST for the most part...
the last two seasons it is likely that just improved ST would have seen us at 10 wins...remarkable really when you saw how pathetic the overall offense looked on the field.


whichever direction the team chooses I will support...will probably bitch about it too, lol... but in the end I will be watching what Keim does with the draft and free agency more than what he does for a coach....contracts and draft picks can affect the health of the team for a longer period whereas we can dump a piss poor coach pretty quickly if we need to.

 

[oaken1]

I fixed your quote fail for you Az Native.

Well lets look at your analogy. 500 yards of offense and 10 points.

So if you only looked at one of those stats they would tell you different things. You could use either stat to fit a narrative you are trying to force.

This is why you look at a complete picture. You don't analyze from one data point.

I will give you a very specific example of why you can't just look at the score. The Denny Green bears game.

We lost that game 24 - 23. If the score is the "only thing that matters when judging a defense", then the defense had a bad game. Except...the defense only allowed 3 points that game.

The Bears had 2 defensive TDs and a Kick Return TD.

The Cardinals defense allowed just 168 yards that game and only allowed 28% on third downs and stopped them on 4th down.


I will tell you the defense played a great game and the score didn't reflect it.

those points dont go against the defense in "Points allowed" though...

 

[Chris_Sanders]

That is why I used a season average, not just one game. It all averages out in the long run.
Obviously we disagree on this, but that is OK, we all have an opinion. No harm no foul.

Sure all of the stats I looked at were season averages as well. I just don't think you can discount the terrible offense, big turnovers, and awful special teams as an impact on that scoring average.


Out of the 5 teams ahead of us on the defensive rankings, 3 of them had top 10 offenses.

I would love to look at average time on offense and defense. That is probably another interesting view.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

those points dont go against the defense in "Points allowed" though...

You sure about that? Let me check.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Hmmm....

http://www.nfl.com/stats/team



Cards defense are also: 4th in yards allowed per play (Amazing)
6th in third down percentage (Sort of surprised here)
19th in 4th down conversion allowed percentage (Not surprised here)
17th in sacks
12th in TDs allowed
12th in interceptions
3rd in forced fumbles

Meanwhile offense and defense go hand in hand. If you can't move the ball, you will be back on defense.

Cards were #22 in offensive yards
#24 in 3rd down conversions
#19 in 4th down conversions
#30 in sacks allowed
#4 in total INTs
#5 in total Fumbles
#31 in passing accuracy


Interesting when you look at the whole picture instead of trying to cherry pick one thing to fit your narrative.

Ok Kevin Greene! Keep pounding your chest about yardage.

Maybe that 2005 Cardinals team will hang some banners for their top ten rankings in yardage on O and D next year.

Defense’s job is to keep the other team from scoring. This one was 19th best in the league.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

They must be counted because our points against and the defense points allowed are the same average.

 

[Cheesebeef]

They must be counted because our points against and the defense points allowed are the same average.

You’re right Chris. This was the second coming of the 85 bears D.

Reality is even with the host of stars you posted, the numbers are all over the place... 4th Place rankings, 3rd Place rankings, 6th Place rankings, 12th Place rankings and a big old 19th Place ranking.

All of which tells me this wasn’t the 19th ranked D or the 5th ranked D but just you run of the mill D... somewhere in the middle of the league.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Not looking to fight with you cheese so if you can again lay off the butthole responses that would be great.

Ok Kevin Greene! Keep pounding your chest about yardage.

Maybe that 2005 Cardinals team will hang some banners for their top ten rankings in yardage on O and D next year.

Defense’s job is to keep the other team from scoring. This one was 19th best in the league.

Interesting you ignore the TDs allowed we are 12th in the NFL.

Pretty big discrepency between being 19th in points allowed but only 12th in TDs allowed.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

You’re right Chris. This was the second coming of the 85 bears D.

Reality is even with the host of stars you posted, the numbers are all over the place... 4th Place rankings, 3rd Place rankings, 6th Place rankings, 12th Place rankings and a big old 19th Place ranking.

All of which tells me this wasn’t the 19th ranked D or the 5th ranked D but just you run of the mill D... somewhere in the middle of the league.

Again, not at all what I said. Your debate tactic of trying to demean the other person rather than actually hold a discussion is starting to wear thin on me.

I have said: Points allowed don't tell the whole story
Bettcher had a surprisingly decent year
I don't want him to be our head coach

Hopefully those are clear enough for you.

 

[juza76]

I m reading that both him and godwin are head coach candidates
I hope its just a way of respect for Bruce arians friends..