Dbacks looking to extend Goldy and Pollack!

[GatorAZ]

I agree, that would be a fair contract if he was expiring soon but that extension wouldn't even begin until 2020 and at its conclusion he'd be a hair under 40. Those are the kind of deals that can cripple a franchise.

They've got him on a great deal right now. I don't see what benefit the dbacks get by extending him waaaaaaaaay early. The risk/reward here seems grossly out of whack.

If he was hitting FA this winter that contract would be robbery. Keep in mind Pujols and Cabrera got 250m at 32. Goldy is 27. If the Diamondbacks want to make Goldy a lifer they need to pay him like the elite player that he is.

 

[Phrazbit]

You do it because it shows good faith and a deep commitment to a franchise player, who of course knows that he is under-paid and would deeply appreciate the gesture from the team.
You do that because locking him up and demonstrating this type of good faith sends a great message to other players currently on the team, and others who might ever be interested in joining the team.

You can show good faith while still waiting a full 2 years which would still be 2 years before he is due for a new deal.

What will lure others to the team is cash. Sadly that is how it works. Right now Goldy's status as seriously underpaid is an advantage in the pursuit of free agents and the money required to land them. If anything getting locked in to paying a guy 150+ million will hinder, not help their pursuit of other top talent.

If he was hitting FA this winter that contract would be robbery. Keep in mind Pujols and Cabrera got 250m at 32. Goldy is 27. If the Diamondbacks want to make Goldy a lifer they need to pay him like the elite player that he is.

And Pujols' contract was considered one of the worst in all of baseball by the time he was 33. And Cabrera, while his contract extension hasn't even started yet, Detroit has had to hold a sell off, and couldn't hold onto Max Scherzer because they have so much salary locked in.

People were surprised at the timing of Cabrera's extension because he was still locked in for 2 more years. Goldy is signed for another FOUR years. Extending him now makes absolutely zero sense for the Dbacks. I'm not saying "never extend him", just WAIT! There is no harm in waiting another 2 or 3 years and you'd still be doing good by the player by extending him early. Where to do it now would be foolish.

Of the guys who have signed these mega deal, 25+ million per year 5+ year contracts, virtually all of the franchises to land them have regretted it immensely. Typically playing out as several seasons of dead salary rate or having to pay the guy to play for someone else during the later half of the deal.

Right now Goldy is on one of the best contracts in baseball, maybe THE best contract in baseball. If they tacked another 6-7 years and 150-200 million dollars onto the back of it, playing him from 2020-2025 now its instantly one of the riskiest contracts and a virtual guarantee to be a terrible deal during the final 3-4 years of it.

 

[Iceman]

With the way he is playing, his leadership and team guy the Dbacks need to do whatever it takes to keep him and keep him happy. He is not the type of guy that seems to be "incentivized" by money. He plays hard because he loves the game. Does he deserve more $, absolutely compared to other 1b's salaries. Hope both sides can agree on him being a franchise player here in the near future

 

[82CardsGrad]

You can show good faith while still waiting a full 2 years which would still be 2 years before he is due for a new deal.

What will lure others to the team is cash. Sadly that is how it works. Right now Goldy's status as seriously underpaid is an advantage in the pursuit of free agents and the money required to land them. If anything getting locked in to paying a guy 150+ million will hinder, not help their pursuit of other top talent.

Couldn't disagree more... We'll see how the dollars eventually shake out, but I am not at all worried about an extension of Goldy hamstringing the team from signing future studs.
Yea, guys are driven by $$. But many are also driven to be associated with a classy, trustworthy winner. These are not mutually exclusive concepts. And I believe TLR & Co. are driven to create just this - a sustained period of success/winning. Locking up Goldy - NOW - is the cornerstone to making that happen.

 

[AZ Native]

Couldn't disagree more... We'll see how the dollars eventually shake out, but I am not at all worried about an extension of Goldy hamstringing the team from signing future studs.
Yea, guys are driven by $$. But many are also driven to be associated with a classy, trustworthy winner. These are not mutually exclusive concepts. And I believe TLR & Co. are driven to create just this - a sustained period of success/winning. Locking up Goldy - NOW - is the cornerstone to making that happen.

Agreed!

 

[Phrazbit]

Couldn't disagree more... We'll see how the dollars eventually shake out, but I am not at all worried about an extension of Goldy hamstringing the team from signing future studs.
Yea, guys are driven by $$. But many are also driven to be associated with a classy, trustworthy winner. These are not mutually exclusive concepts. And I believe TLR & Co. are driven to create just this - a sustained period of success/winning. Locking up Goldy - NOW - is the cornerstone to making that happen.

I agree, they're not mutually exclusive. But the point is Goldy has FOUR year left. They can wait 2 years and STILL be magnanimous to their franchise guy, they can be generous, they can show loyalty. Its simply waaaaaaay too soon to be talking about the type of massive extension Goldy will likely get.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I agree, they're not mutually exclusive. But the point is Goldy has FOUR year left. They can wait 2 years and STILL be magnanimous to their franchise guy, they can be generous, they can show loyalty. Its simply waaaaaaay too soon to be talking about the type of massive extension Goldy will likely get.

Do you believe Goldy is an extremely rare talent as well as an even more rare quality of person? I ask because I don't believe you do... If you did, I think it would be easier to understand why the Dbacks wanting to discuss this now makes sense.
Goldy is a once in a generation type player and person. There are guys who can put up numbers like Goldy, but they fall short of his character. And there are guys who come close to his character but fall way short of matching his production and player value.
Aside from the hand injury last season, he's been healthy and shown to be remarkably durable. He's a Derek Jeter type player and those don't come around too often. The Yankees ensured Jeter would always be a Yankee and the Dbacks would be smart to do the same with Goldy - now.

 

[Phrazbit]

I agree, that Goldy is all those things, I also think all of those things could be said about Albert Pujols... and his post 32 years of age contract is a nightmare.

It is impossible to project how good a guy will be that far out. It is an enormous risk. Sure, if we were the Yankees or the Dodgers... whoop-dee-doo, lock him down until he is 45 and it won't matter. But we're not, we're a team that occasionally resorts to shipping of prospects to dump a few million in payroll.

And, as I've said repeatedly, the Dbacks can show their appreciation, the can reward him for being a great guy and great player while STILL waiting a full two years! We're over 4 years out! To quote Mugatu "I feel like I'm talking crazy pills here!!!" There are ZERO players that it would make sense to talk extension that far out.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I agree, that Goldy is all those things, I also think all of those things could be said about Albert Pujols... and his post 32 years of age contract is a nightmare.

It is impossible to project how good a guy will be that far out. It is an enormous risk. Sure, if we were the Yankees or the Dodgers... whoop-dee-doo, lock him down until he is 45 and it won't matter. But we're not, we're a team that occasionally resorts to shipping of prospects to dump a few million in payroll.

And, as I've said repeatedly, the Dbacks can show their appreciation, the can reward him for being a great guy and great player while STILL waiting a full two years! We're over 4 years out! To quote Mugatu "I feel like I'm talking crazy pills here!!!" There are ZERO players that it would make sense to talk extension that far out.

We'll have to agree to disagree...I don't see a "life long deal" for Goldy approaching the Pujols level on a per year basis. That's the beauty of Goldy. The team won't have to go bezerk to make it happen...

 

[The Commish]

I agree, that Goldy is all those things, I also think all of those things could be said about Albert Pujols... and his post 32 years of age contract is a nightmare.

It is impossible to project how good a guy will be that far out. It is an enormous risk. Sure, if we were the Yankees or the Dodgers... whoop-dee-doo, lock him down until he is 45 and it won't matter. But we're not, we're a team that occasionally resorts to shipping of prospects to dump a few million in payroll.

And, as I've said repeatedly, the Dbacks can show their appreciation, the can reward him for being a great guy and great player while STILL waiting a full two years! We're over 4 years out! To quote Mugatu "I feel like I'm talking crazy pills here!!!" There are ZERO players that it would make sense to talk extension that far out.

I agree with this logic. Love Goldy just as much as anyone and believe he deserves a raise per se. His contract beyond this year looks like this:

2016 $5.83M
2017 $8.83M
2018 $11.83M
2019 $14.5M (Team Option)

Total: $41M ($10.25M avg/year)

For argument sake, let's say the front office wanted to show a little good faith by re-working his deal. What numbers would make sense for everyone to be comfortable with the risk? Here's what I think:

- Extend his current deal by another 3 years (thru 2022) which would take him to age 34.

2016: $10.0M
2017: $11.0M
2018: $12.0M
2019: $13.0M
2020: $14.0M
2021: $15.0M
2022: $16.0M

Total: $91M ($13.0M avg/year)

That being said I still think you wait. On the surface, winning and loyalty seem to be most important to Goldy. By having him at such a below market value, the front office has a tremendous window of opportunity to go out and spend money (wisely) to put a good team around him. I just hope the front office is able to capitalize on this rare occurrence and make impactful moves (and not sign guys to albatross contracts). If the club is winning and treating him well, I think the opportunity to do a 'blend & extend' will be there in two years.

Lastly with respect to Pollock, I think 4 years/$40M seems to be about right.

 

[Phrazbit]

I agree with this logic. Love Goldy just as much as anyone and believe he deserves a raise per se. His contract beyond this year looks like this:

2016 $5.83M
2017 $8.83M
2018 $11.83M
2019 $14.5M (Team Option)

Total: $41M ($10.25M avg/year)

For argument sake, let's say the front office wanted to show a little good faith by re-working his deal. What numbers would make sense for everyone to be comfortable with the risk? Here's what I think:

- Extend his current deal by another 3 years (thru 2022) which would take him to age 34.

2016: $10.0M
2017: $11.0M
2018: $12.0M
2019: $13.0M
2020: $14.0M
2021: $15.0M
2022: $16.0M

Total: $91M ($13.0M avg/year)

That being said I still think you wait. On the surface, winning and loyalty seem to be most important to Goldy. By having him at such a below market value, the front office has a tremendous window of opportunity to go out and spend money (wisely) to put a good team around him. I just hope the front office is able to capitalize on this rare occurrence and make impactful moves (and not sign guys to albatross contracts). If the club is winning and treating him well, I think the opportunity to do a 'blend & extend' will be there in two years.

Lastly with respect to Pollock, I think 4 years/$40M seems to be about right.

That kind of extension I could get behind but I don't think baseball allows those kind of reworked contracts. Remember when arod was going to be traded to Boston? The deal fell apart because he tried to rework his contract but the union said "no way." I think if you extend anything new just goes on to the end of it, you can't add on or take away from the existing deal.

 

[82CardsGrad]

That kind of extension I could get behind but I don't think baseball allows those kind of reworked contracts. Remember when arod was going to be traded to Boston? The deal fell apart because he tried to rework his contract but the union said "no way." I think if you extend anything new just goes on to the end of it, you can't add on or take away from the existing deal.

Pretty sure you're correct.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I agree with this logic. Love Goldy just as much as anyone and believe he deserves a raise per se. His contract beyond this year looks like this:

2016 $5.83M
2017 $8.83M
2018 $11.83M
2019 $14.5M (Team Option)

Total: $41M ($10.25M avg/year)

For argument sake, let's say the front office wanted to show a little good faith by re-working his deal. What numbers would make sense for everyone to be comfortable with the risk? Here's what I think:

- Extend his current deal by another 3 years (thru 2022) which would take him to age 34.

2016: $10.0M
2017: $11.0M
2018: $12.0M
2019: $13.0M
2020: $14.0M
2021: $15.0M
2022: $16.0M

Total: $91M ($13.0M avg/year)

That being said I still think you wait. On the surface, winning and loyalty seem to be most important to Goldy. By having him at such a below market value, the front office has a tremendous window of opportunity to go out and spend money (wisely) to put a good team around him. I just hope the front office is able to capitalize on this rare occurrence and make impactful moves (and not sign guys to albatross contracts). If the club is winning and treating him well, I think the opportunity to do a 'blend & extend' will be there in two years.

Lastly with respect to Pollock, I think 4 years/$40M seems to be about right.

I can see a deal like this:

5 year deal, keeping Goldy a Dback until he's 37. An average annual salary over those 5 years at $17 Million.

Wouldn't represent any problems with the team being able to sign other top-tier talent.
Get 'er done Stew!

 

[The Commish]

That kind of extension I could get behind but I don't think baseball allows those kind of reworked contracts. Remember when arod was going to be traded to Boston? The deal fell apart because he tried to rework his contract but the union said "no way." I think if you extend anything new just goes on to the end of it, you can't add on or take away from the existing deal.

The collective bargaining agreement prohibits players from contractual "restructuring" or "revising" that amounts to reducing the value of the contract (i.e. pay cut). This was enacted to prevent clubs from trying to cram down or intimidate players into taking pay cuts. A player's contract can be changed if it acts to benefit the player, and the union defines "benefit" in purely financial terms.

In A-Rod's case, they were looking to reduce the value of his contract due to his PED issues. If a player is getting more money as part of an extension, the union likely would have no issue with it. This can also apply to a club and player mutually agreeing to defer salary during the contract period (i.e. Bobby Bonilla, Bernard Gilkey, etc.)

 

[82CardsGrad]

The collective bargaining agreement prohibits players from contractual "restructuring" or "revising" that amounts to reducing the value of the contract (i.e. pay cut). This was enacted to prevent clubs from trying to cram down or intimidate players into taking pay cuts. A player's contract can be changed if it acts to benefit the player, and the union defines "benefit" in purely financial terms.

In A-Rod's case, they were looking to reduce the value of his contract due to his PED issues. If a player is getting more money as part of an extension, the union likely would have no issue with it. This can also apply to a club and player mutually agreeing to defer salary during the contract period (i.e. Bobby Bonilla, Bernard Gilkey, etc.)

Hmmm.... thx for the clarification!

In light of that news, I would revise my offer to Goldy as follows:

10 year deal, starting in 2016 - keeping Goldy a Dback until he's 38 years old. Average annual salary of $16 Million.
Again, wouldn't hamper the team in any way, shape or form. Get 'er done Stew!!!

 

[Matt L]

Hmmm.... thx for the clarification!

In light of that news, I would revise my offer to Goldy as follows:

10 year deal, starting in 2016 - keeping Goldy a Dback until he's 38 years old. Average annual salary of $16 Million.
Again, wouldn't hamper the team in any way, shape or form. Get 'er done Stew!!!

Let me first say, I think that would be an great deal for Goldy and for the team. That said, the largest contract the Diamondbacks have ever given out is the $60 million that they gave Yasmany Tomas. Will they be ready to pay $100 million more than that deal?

The other thing is where does Pollock fit in this? He's one of the top 10 outfielders in the majors and he will be up for arbitration for the next 3 years. I think it would be wise to lock him up for the next 4-5 years but him and his agent may be looking to test the arbitration and then free agency in 2009.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Let me first say, I think that would be an great deal for Goldy and for the team. That said, the largest contract the Diamondbacks have ever given out is the $60 million that they gave Yasmany Tomas. Will they be ready to pay $100 million more than that deal?



The other thing is where does Pollock fit in this? He's one of the top 10 outfielders in the majors and he will be up for arbitration for the next 3 years. I think it would be wise to lock him up for the next 4-5 years but him and his agent may be looking to test the arbitration and then free agency in 2009.

Yes, I believe the team is ready to dish out that $$ to Goldy.
And AJ has already publicly stated that he would "love" to remain with the Dbacks "long term". A 5 year deal @ roughly $12 million per would seem about right...

 

[Matt L]

Yes, I believe the team is ready to dish out that $$ to Goldy.
And AJ has already publicly stated that he would "love" to remain with the Dbacks "long term". A 5 year deal @ roughly $12 million per would seem about right...

I think that would be a pretty good deal if he agrees to it. I think he is having a comparable season to Lorenzo Cain. Cain is in a similar position as Pollock in that he is eligible for arbitration for the next 2 seasons and then will be a free agent in 2018.

$12 million per year would be a great deal for the team if AJ accepts it.