Early Concerns About BA

[AzStevenCal]

I dont disagree. Im not saying one way or the other, Im just pointing it out.

You own what you say, and this man whos been a scout for many years, and is highly respected in football circles called a widely accepted "OK" player "Elite".


Can we at least all agree that that was probably a very poor choice of wording on BAs part if anything.

Clearly, the answer to this question is NO.

Steve

 

[THESMEL]

no

BA's the first Card coach that has agreed with me in years- I aint giving that up without a fight- Elite as defined on the 1-100 grade scale that I adapted from the rookie draft grade scale for years - and now they have one!

I was kicked off the cards board because I disagreed with the popular crowd- I didn't break a rule - they said I incited riots or something- well they can choke on it! Now BA's inciting riots with his grades! Some followed those popular opinions right down the damned toilet!

But Levi is ELITE by this standard.

NFL Free-Agent Grading Scale

Updated: March 8, 2013, 12:26 PM ET

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90-100: Elite Player
Player demonstrates rare abilities and can create mismatches that have an obvious impact on the game. ... Premier NFL player who has all the skills to consistently play at a championship level. ... Rates as one of the top players at his position in the league.
80-89: Outstanding Player
Player has abilities to create mismatches versus most opponents in the NFL. ... A feature player who has an impact on the outcome of the game. ... Cannot be shut down by a single player and plays on a consistent level week in and week out.
70-79: Good Starter
Solid starter who is close to being an outstanding player. ... Has few weaknesses and usually will win his individual matchup but does not dominate in every game, especially when matched up against the top players in the league.
60-69: Average Starter
A valuable roster player but not a dominant player against the better players he faces on a weekly basis. ... Gives great effort and teams are glad to have him, but he may or may not go to the next level.
50-59: Good Backup
This is a player who is really on the bubble and only starts because of a deficiency at the position. ... He lacks complete overall skills, and although he will battle, he will hinder his team's ability to play at a championship level if he is forced to be in the starting lineup consistently over a 16-game season. Teams don't mind having him on the roster but are always looking to upgrade.
40-49: Below Average Backup/Core Special Teamers
Strictly a backup player who is not capable of starting. If forced to, he is only a short-term fix. ... He might make the roster because of special-teams contributions or experience. ... He is the type of player teams consistently look to replace with an upgrade. ... He always will be a borderline roster player.
30: Rookie (Post-draft)
No professional tape to evaluate. These players will have an evaluation based on their college tape, but we will not put a new grade on them until after their rookie seasons. They will carry the 30 grade throughout their first NFL season.
20: Developmental Player
Players with this grade have very little film to evaluate. Such players might flash potential in the preseason but don't have any regular-season performances to judge. they usually have very little experience but have to be tracked due to developmental potential.
10: Evaluation in Process
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I dont disagree. Im not saying one way or the other, Im just pointing it out.

You own what you say, and this man whos been a scout for many years, and is highly respected in football circles called a widely accepted "OK" player "Elite".


Can we at least all agree that that was probably a very poor choice of wording on BAs part if anything.

 

[bankybruce]

People are really getting up in arms over comment made by the same guy who suggested we should sign Geno Smith during the season LAST YEAR. He is either tolling or just lives in a very special world none of us will understand. And since he is really fan and does tend to post some good stuff from time to time, I do not think he is trolling.

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/f4/ot-draft-question-186367.html?highlight=Geno+Smith

 

[Vermont Maverick]

You are correct, Levi was an LT at Penn....we drafted him to play RT.....my bad..oops

You made some great points in your original post, oaken. But I disagree with this. Though he played RT his first year because we had Gandy at LT, we didn't pick him with the #5 pick to play RT for the long haul.

 

[AzStevenCal]

You made some great points in your original post, oaken. But I disagree with this. Though he played RT his first year because we had Gandy at LT, we didn't pick him with the #5 pick to play RT for the long haul.

We drafted a left handed QB the season before so it stands to reason that we drafted Brown that high with an eye to him protecting Leinart for the long haul.

Steve

 

[Duckjake]

I have concerns about Arians as well. There's a reason he's been in the NFL off and on since 1989 and never been hired as a HC until now. But the thing that really got my attention is that in 9 years as an offensive coordinator he never had an offense that ranked in the top 10 in both points scored and yards gained. In fact his offenses made the top 10 in just one of the categories three times out of 18 possibles.

I guess I'm still gun shy from the Cards hiring their terrible DC to be their Head Coach. That was a long time ago so I guess I shouldn't be but the same guys own the team so....

Still can't believe the Cards went from NFC West Champions to a team so pitiful the offense averaged 13.6 ppg just a year later and after three seasons of "rebuilding" finished 31st in scoring. How does the QB situation get so bad it allows that to happen and the "greatest coach in Cardinal history" suddenly becomes a bum who didn't know what he was doing and left a huge mess for the new regime to clean up?

It's a crazy team we follow.

 

[Darkside]

I dont disagree. Im not saying one way or the other, Im just pointing it out.

You own what you say, and this man whos been a scout for many years, and is highly respected in football circles called a widely accepted "OK" player "Elite".


Can we at least all agree that that was probably a very poor choice of wording on BAs part if anything.

I don't have a problem with BA calling Levi elite. It's no different than Harbaugh claiming Crabtree had elite hands before last season. He said Crab had the best hands in the league after he'd struggled with drops the previous season(s). Does Crabtree have elite hands? Probably not--but what it does is force the player to focus on his hands more than he would have otherwise. And last year Crabtree was a 3rd down conversion beast and had his best year.

I've heard it said that if you want to bring your kids bad grade up you talk up that subject (not berate him) and he/she will focus on it and increase that subject. Levi needs to focus on being a better player, on becoming elite. Focusing on his suck doesn't get our draft pick back.

(Edit: I should add that another benefit of talking up a struggling player is it entices outsiders to do the criticizing so you don't have to do it yourself and strain relationships. Now it's us against them instead of having the coach embarrass Levi publicly)

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I think what the OP is missing is BAs style. To my knowledge he was the most popular assistant coach to play for as you see by the former players who swear by him and Big Ben trying to leverage the Steelers to keep him Around.

You know why? Because he backs the players and builds them up. Hes seen Levi on tape from 2011 and hasn't even been able to speak with him about football because of CBA. Of course he has no concept if Levi is elite or not. But he knows he needs to have a good OL next year he needs Levi to return to health and play well.

BA is a emotion guy. And for me this is the one thing I like about him opposed to Whisenhunt. He walks to his own beat, controls his emotion, but is overt and blunt that he really cares about the outcome and players.

That's what happened in Indy last year. He certainly doesn't get enough credit from this board for taking over that team and getting 1-53 to rally and play above their heads. Saying Luck and/or Pagano as a reason is too simple. Dude knows how to get guys playing hard. Harbaugh does that masterfully. Arians maybe able to skin the same cat in his own way.

 

[Finito]

Brown is better than people give him credit for I mean just seeing batitse in there last year made me go ******** we need Levi back lol. We've seen him play really well and we've seen him play pretty bad. Maybe he just needs some good coaching something I ding think he's ever got in Arizona the o line seems to have been very neglected during the whiz era

What's BA supposed to say no he sucks.

 

[Finito]

I have concerns about Arians as well. There's a reason he's been in the NFL off and on since 1989 and never been hired as a HC until now. But the thing that really got my attention is that in 9 years as an offensive coordinator he never had an offense that ranked in the top 10 in both points scored and yards gained. In fact his offenses made the top 10 in just one of the categories three times out of 18 possibles.

I guess I'm still gun shy from the Cards hiring their terrible DC to be their Head Coach. That was a long time ago so I guess I shouldn't be but the same guys own the team so....

Still can't believe the Cards went from NFC West Champions to a team so pitiful the offense averaged 13.6 ppg just a year later and after three seasons of "rebuilding" finished 31st in scoring. How does the QB situation get so bad it allows that to happen and the "greatest coach in Cardinal history" suddenly becomes a bum who didn't know what he was doing and left a huge mess for the new regime to clean up?

It's a crazy team we follow.

I think Whiz got really really full of himself. I mean he just flat out ignored the o line his entire time here and he kept his buddy as OC refused to make changes when it was obvious changes needed to be made. I mean it's like dude its not working change it up but instead it was the same thing week after week

 

[Duckjake]

I think what the OP is missing is BAs style. To my knowledge he was the most popular assistant coach to play for as you see by the former players who swear by him and Big Ben trying to leverage the Steelers to keep him Around.

You know why? Because he backs the players and builds them up. Hes seen Levi on tape from 2011 and hasn't even been able to speak with him about football because of CBA. Of course he has no concept if Levi is elite or not. But he knows he needs to have a good OL next year he needs Levi to return to health and play well.

BA is a emotion guy. And for me this is the one thing I like about him opposed to Whisenhunt. He walks to his own beat, controls his emotion, but is overt and blunt that he really cares about the outcome and players.

That's what happened in Indy last year. He certainly doesn't get enough credit from this board for taking over that team and getting 1-53 to rally and play above their heads. Saying Luck and/or Pagano as a reason is too simple. Dude knows how to get guys playing hard. Harbaugh does that masterfully. Arians maybe able to skin the same cat in his own way.

I don't know, the stats just don't add up. The Colts were 18th in points scored last season despite a supposedely easy schedule and Arians QBs have been sacked 126 times the last three seasons combined with the Steelers ranked 21st in scoring Arians last season there. The Steelers are one of the premier franchises in the NFL. That they let Arians leave says a lot to me.

I guess we'll keep him as HC for a year and then fire him and he'll go back to Pittsburgh as OC.

 

[kerouac9]

There are lots of reasons to be concerned about Bruce Arians. The commented mentioned in the OP is not nearly one of them.

Judge him by his actions, not by his words. Especially words spoken in the month leading up to the draft.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Anybody that wants to say they're concerned about our new coach, have at it. I see nothing wrong with being doubtful that a long time assistant is going to suddenly become a great coach and that one season in Indy changes nothing AFAIC. But I think judging the guy because of a casual comment made in the offseason is a bit of a reach, especially given the circumstances.

Steve

 

[Gee!]

BA is just a feel good story.. A coach that was passed on by all teams in need of a head coach till the Cards were stuck out in the cold.. I dont even believe he was coach of the year last year.. He just happened to be the schmuck holding the clipboard while the team played on emotion led by rookie QB that comes around once in a decade.. He was fired/retired from the team before the Colts.. No one has ever thought of him as a HC before.. I have a lot of problems with this guy.. Then he comes in destroys the roster in places it didnt need to be destrpyed.. Says one thing, end up doing another..

Were screwed..

 

[Duckjake]

BA is just a feel good story.. A coach that was passed on by all teams in need of a head coach till the Cards were stuck out in the cold.. I dont even believe he was coach of the year last year.. He just happened to be the schmuck holding the clipboard while the team played on emotion led by rookie QB that comes around once in a decade.. He was fired/retired from the team before the Colts.. No one has ever thought of him as a HC before.. I have a lot of problems with this guy.. Then he comes in destroys the roster in places it didnt need to be destrpyed.. Says one thing, end up doing another..

Were screwed..

No kidding. The guy was hired because he was $3 million dollars cheaper than the "greatest coach in Cardinals history" who is now a bum that had no clue what he was doing.

The dollar Bidwills are right back to what they've always done. Sacrificed wins to save a few cents. Did it in 1999 and did it again in 2010 and are now on the rent a wreck program. They're the Wayne Huizinga's of the NFL. But without the titles.

 

[Finito]

You cannot be serious he was coach of the year last year for Christ sakes. Last time I checked he had a ring as an OC. You work with what you have like BA had said before you fit your system to the players you have. You don't take big Ben, Jerome bettis and Haynes ward and turn them into the Kurt Warner greatest show on turf.

And the greatest coach in the history of this team ****ing sucked. Sorry buy he lost the team with his attitude and unwillingness to see anyone else's point of view he lost the locker room and there's no coming back from that.

Give him a chance let's see what he gets. This team was 5-11 last year we aren't contenders and hell 10 wins might not even get you in the playoffs next year so let's build

 

[Duckjake]

You cannot be serious he was coach of the year last year for Christ sakes. Last time I checked he had a ring as an OC. You work with what you have like BA had said before you fit your system to the players you have. You don't take big Ben, Jerome bettis and Haynes ward and turn them into the Kurt Warner greatest show on turf.

And the greatest coach in the history of this team ****ing sucked. Sorry buy he lost the team with his attitude and unwillingness to see anyone else's point of view he lost the locker room and there's no coming back from that.

Give him a chance let's see what he gets. This team was 5-11 last year we aren't contenders and hell 10 wins might not even get you in the playoffs next year so let's build

Coach of the year was a sympathy vote. Couldn't even get the best QB to come out of college in years in the top half of the league in scoring and Luck was sacked almost as often as our guys. Give Whisenhunt Andrew Luck and he's still HC in Arizona. Let go by one of the top franchises in the NFL and only found a home in 5-11 Arizona. And to top it all off he dismantles the one part of the team that actually worked. If CKW lost the locker room why is Arians getting rid of so many of Kens guys. I read the same stuff when dollar Bill promoted Dave McGinnis not because he was qualified but because Bidwill didn't want him going to another team like what happened with Jim Fassel.

Arians has to earn our support not just have it handed to him because the guy who so many of the same people who are pimping Arians thought was a great head coach suddenly decided he was a bum.

 

[Finito]

Coach of the year was a sympathy vote. Couldn't even get the best QB to come out of college in years in the top half of the league in scoring and Luck was sacked almost as often as our guys. Give Whisenhunt Andrew Luck and he's still HC in Arizona. Let go by one of the top franchises in the NFL and only found a home in 5-11 Arizona. And to top it all off he dismantles the one part of the team that actually worked. If CKW lost the locker room why is Arians getting rid of so many of Kens guys. I read the same stuff when dollar Bill promoted Dave McGinnis not because he was qualified but because Bidwill didn't want him going to another team like what happened with Jim Fassel.

Arians has to earn our support not just have it handed to him because the guy who so many of the same people who are pimping Arians thought was a great head coach suddenly decided he was a bum.

You sound like a Whiz fan boy. They won 2 games last year let's not act like they had a monster offensive line, star wide receivers and a 1000 yard back already on the team. The two best defenders they had were freeney and Mathis who are both on the downside of there careers. Let's not act like Andrew luck walked into a stacked team. No I'm not to impressed with Reggie Wayne he's good he is by no means Megatron.

You went from 2 wins to the playoffs and if I'm not mistaken they had the youngest roster in the NFL last year. That's just Damn Good coaching and players playing above there means. Let's not be a hater.

Yeah he got let go in Pittsburgh why don't you go ask the starting QB in Pittsburgh how he felt about that cause I can tell you he wasn't happy about it. Politics are politics and they happen. Seriously how many coaches have lost there jobs in the last 10 years your gonna tell me they all suck, cause that Cleveland retred is doing pretty well for himself in new England. Hate on him all you want fact I'd BA is wearing a ring.

I keep seeing you say he dismantled the part if the team that was working. I'm sorry who exactly did we let go? Is Calias still here? We let go of Washington? What about 9-0 what team did he go to? Sam Acho? Oh you must be taking about when we cut Patrick Peterson.

William Gay? Bradley? Let's face it those guys were horrible singings, A-Dub? Listen I love that dude as much as any other cardinal fan but fact is he's not the same player and he was on the field less and less that's reality can't argue that. Kerry Rhodes turned down restructuring and an extension said he wanted to test the market and according to MJ he didn't really want to be here so hey good bye.

Bottom line this team was 5-11 last year were not contenders and hell with San Fran and Seattle doing there thing we weren't gonna be contenders next year either. We have to rebuild wasn't that long ago we were on top and San Fran was dealing with a circus. I'm born and raised here and I've been here when times were real dark this is not the same old cardinals and its not even close.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Bottom line this team was 5-11 last year were not contenders and hell with San Fran and Seattle doing there thing we weren't gonna be contenders next year either. We have to rebuild wasn't that long ago we were on top and San Fran was dealing with a circus. I'm born and raised here and I've been here when times were real dark this is not the same old cardinals and its not even close.

I agree we DEFINITELY have to rebuild... but I thought we needed to rebuild the offense which was horrendous, not rebuild the secondary, which was ranked #5 in the league in defense and was the strength of the team. we basically have done nothing on offense so far except sign a career backup QB who's never accomplished anything and a dinged up running back who was awful last year coming off knee surgery to replace our old dinged up running back who was also awful last year coming off knee surgery.

 

[Finito]

I agree we DEFINITELY have to rebuild... but I thought we needed to rebuild the offense which was horrendous, not rebuild the secondary, which was ranked #5 in the league in defense and was the strength of the team. we basically have done nothing on offense so far except sign a career backup QB who's never accomplished anything and a dinged up running back who was awful last year coming off knee surgery to replace our old dinged up running back who was also awful last year coming off knee surgery.

Well like I said Wilson is on the downside and was seeing less and less playing time, William gay was not really any good, Kerry Rhodes turned down restructuring and an extension can't really cry about losing him if he didn't want to be here. I would of liked to have Tolar but is he really the key to your defense he's not a make or break player. I think Rashad Johnson is going to be really good and this I'd the deepest safety class maybe ever in the draft.

As far as offense who did you want them to go get. Let's understand were not winning next year hell 10 wins might not get you into the playoffs next year in our division. Jake long was the big name out there but he's finished the last two seasons on the injured list.

 

[Duckjake]

You sound like a Whiz fan boy. They won 2 games last year let's not act like they had a monster offensive line, star wide receivers and a 1000 yard back already on the team. The two best defenders they had were freeney and Mathis who are both on the downside of there careers. Let's not act like Andrew luck walked into a stacked team. No I'm not to impressed with Reggie Wayne he's good he is by no means Megatron.

You went from 2 wins to the playoffs and if I'm not mistaken they had the youngest roster in the NFL last year. That's just Damn Good coaching and players playing above there means. Let's not be a hater.

Yeah he got let go in Pittsburgh why don't you go ask the starting QB in Pittsburgh how he felt about that cause I can tell you he wasn't happy about it. Politics are politics and they happen. Seriously how many coaches have lost there jobs in the last 10 years your gonna tell me they all suck, cause that Cleveland retred is doing pretty well for himself in new England. Hate on him all you want fact I'd BA is wearing a ring.

I keep seeing you say he dismantled the part if the team that was working. I'm sorry who exactly did we let go? Is Calias still here? We let go of Washington? What about 9-0 what team did he go to? Sam Acho? Oh you must be taking about when we cut Patrick Peterson.

William Gay? Bradley? Let's face it those guys were horrible singings, A-Dub? Listen I love that dude as much as any other cardinal fan but fact is he's not the same player and he was on the field less and less that's reality can't argue that. Kerry Rhodes turned down restructuring and an extension said he wanted to test the market and according to MJ he didn't really want to be here so hey good bye.

Bottom line this team was 5-11 last year were not contenders and hell with San Fran and Seattle doing there thing we weren't gonna be contenders next year either. We have to rebuild wasn't that long ago we were on top and San Fran was dealing with a circus. I'm born and raised here and I've been here when times were real dark this is not the same old cardinals and its not even close.

Banking on guys like Drew Stanton and Rashad Johnson and Yerimiah Bell and hopefully a rookie? With a HC with no previous record of success on his own? Our last HC who you claim sucked also had a ring AND two NFC West titles and an NFC championship. Took a team that had won only 16 games total the previous 3 seasons to the SB in only two years without blowing up the roster. Far better resume than your grand daddy Arians. Looks like the same old Cardinals with Dave McGinnis and Jeff Blake to me. 4-12 or 5-11 just like always. Our season will be finito by the end of September.

On the other hand these are the Cardinals and nothing they do is normal. They'll probably go 11-5 this coming season.

 

[Totally_Red]

No concern about BA. Some concern about the defense. BA knows that Levi Brown is going to be one of his starters and is probably the best offensive lineman the Cardinals have (which isn't saying much).

Levi is not an elite tackle if considered on a league-wide basis, but he's probably the one of the best tackles BA has ever coached.

elite - n. the choice or best of anything considered collectively, especially of a group or class of persons.

 

[cardpa]

Brown is far better than most fans give him credit for....he has the physical talent and the skills... from watching him closely the past few seasons I have been scratching my head wondering what exactly he is thinking.....either he is a complete idiot(which I doubt) or he is being told/expecting help on many plays that just doesnt appear. So many times I have seen the dude look right at his man, then at the snap, ignore his guy and crack down on the DT to assist the guard....but a couple times he did this...pre snap he was looking over his shoulder as if he was asking where the help was......

I was a big fan of Levi coming out of Penn state and he was my choice for that draft...I agree with the coach that he has the "ability" to be elite....physically... just to this point it is hard to tell if he is a moron or just a victim of bad coaching.....I understand his early struggles at LT....he was a RT in college and that is where we drafted him to play....because at the time we were expecting to have a lefty as starting QB for the next decade...totally flipping your muscle memory is difficult and takes time...but the time has passed...since then it appears to be a continuous flow of mental errors....or **** coaching....or maybe poor line calls by the center..... it will be interesting to see how it plays out...I really hope this staff can bring back the Levi Brown we drafted, and coach him in to the Levi Brown we fully expected him to be.

Levi was the LT for PSU not a RT.

 

[cardpa]

Coach of the year was a sympathy vote. Couldn't even get the best QB to come out of college in years in the top half of the league in scoring and Luck was sacked almost as often as our guys. Give Whisenhunt Andrew Luck and he's still HC in Arizona. Let go by one of the top franchises in the NFL and only found a home in 5-11 Arizona. And to top it all off he dismantles the one part of the team that actually worked. If CKW lost the locker room why is Arians getting rid of so many of Kens guys. I read the same stuff when dollar Bill promoted Dave McGinnis not because he was qualified but because Bidwill didn't want him going to another team like what happened with Jim Fassel.

Arians has to earn our support not just have it handed to him because the guy who so many of the same people who are pimping Arians thought was a great head coach suddenly decided he was a bum.

If Whiz had Luck the writers would probably be asking if Luck was the second coming of Ryan Leaf. Whiz was a QB killer.

 

[Duckjake]

If Whiz had Luck the writers would probably be asking if Luck was the second coming of Ryan Leaf. Whiz was a QB killer.

Wel I guess you could have some basis for saying that but I don't think he was a QB killer as much as he and Graves and Michael couldn't get decent QB talent to Arizona. Which is nothing new when you look at the Bidwill's history in the Valley.