Early Concerns About BA

Bodha

ASFN Addict
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
Sep 3, 2011
Posts
5,710
Reaction score
754
Its one thing to talk up your players, all coaches do that. Harbaugh is doing that with Bust Jenkins saying he could make a push to be their break out player next year.

But when BA calls Levi Brown "Elite", no joke, thats a major red flag. It makes me question his ability to judge talent ( and thus makes me question the Stanton choice) and his ability to be a successful NFL head coach.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/94975/around-the-nfc-west-elite-levi-brown


Calling an OK player whos struggled most of his career "Elite" is stepping into senile territory.

Im just saying it makes me nervous and if in 3 years we are 2-14 with the worst roster in the NFL, I will bump this thread.
 

DoTheDew

Registered
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Posts
2,967
Reaction score
0
FWIWs Levi's been a pro bowl alternate before in his career. This means, for whatever reason, he's far more highly regarded by players and coaches than he is by fans.
 

Azlen

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Apr 29, 2004
Posts
3,724
Reaction score
943
Its one thing to talk up your players, all coaches do that. Harbaugh is doing that with Bust Jenkins saying he could make a push to be their break out player next year.

But when BA calls Levi Brown "Elite", no joke, thats a major red flag. It makes me question his ability to judge talent ( and thus makes me question the Stanton choice) and his ability to be a successful NFL head coach.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/94975/around-the-nfc-west-elite-levi-brown


Calling an OK player whos struggled most of his career "Elite" is stepping into senile territory.

Im just saying it makes me nervous and if in 3 years we are 2-14 with the worst roster in the NFL, I will bump this thread.

What a coach says in public, what he says to his players and what he really thinks can be and usually are quite different. Time will tell what he really thinks of Brown and Stanton's ability.
 

NashDishesDimes

Hall of Famer
Joined
Dec 16, 2008
Posts
1,840
Reaction score
556
WAY too early for a thread like this. Hes blowing smoke for the draft thats a guarentee. Hes also instilling confidence and backing his players. Absolutely no reason to jump to conclusions.
 

Krangodnzr

Captain of Team Murray
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
35,426
Reaction score
32,175
Location
Orange County, CA
Kind of ridiculous Bodha.

What coaches say in public is very different than what they actually believe. Maybe he plans on drafting a tackle and he is throwing out comments like this to disguise his intent?
 

GatorAZ

feed hopkins
Joined
Oct 17, 2011
Posts
24,532
Reaction score
16,831
Location
The Giant Toaster
Didn't BA himself say trust nothing anyone says. He's is going out of his way to compliment Levi and Jurecki says they really like Fisher...

Just saying
 

Mitch

Crawled Through 5 FB Fields
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Posts
13,405
Reaction score
2,982
Location
Wrentham, MA
BA also said that depending how the draft and the rest of free agency goes, Brown could be moved over to the right side. The spirit of BA's remark was to emphasize the reason for keeping Brown at tackle (because that's where he is most talented)---thus dismissing the suggestion that the team might switch him to guard---which BA has been asked several times.
 

Vermont Maverick

Registered
Joined
Apr 24, 2006
Posts
1,861
Reaction score
181
Location
Williston, Vermont
So, let me get this right.

If BA turns out great, you rejoice.

If BA turns out bad, you get to say I told you so.

This way, you can't lose.

Whatever.
 

Garthshort

ASFN Addict
Joined
Aug 11, 2002
Posts
9,153
Reaction score
5,122
Location
Scarsdale, NY
Bodha, you say that BA, who turns 75 this year, could be senile. What about me? I'm already 75. Oh, forget it, my wife just told me that I've been senile for a couple of years.
 

oaken1

Stone Cold
Supporting Member
Banned from P+R
Joined
Mar 13, 2004
Posts
16,666
Reaction score
13,242
Location
Modesto, California
Brown is far better than most fans give him credit for....he has the physical talent and the skills... from watching him closely the past few seasons I have been scratching my head wondering what exactly he is thinking.....either he is a complete idiot(which I doubt) or he is being told/expecting help on many plays that just doesnt appear. So many times I have seen the dude look right at his man, then at the snap, ignore his guy and crack down on the DT to assist the guard....but a couple times he did this...pre snap he was looking over his shoulder as if he was asking where the help was......

I was a big fan of Levi coming out of Penn state and he was my choice for that draft...I agree with the coach that he has the "ability" to be elite....physically... just to this point it is hard to tell if he is a moron or just a victim of bad coaching.....I understand his early struggles at LT....he was a RT in college and that is where we drafted him to play....because at the time we were expecting to have a lefty as starting QB for the next decade...totally flipping your muscle memory is difficult and takes time...but the time has passed...since then it appears to be a continuous flow of mental errors....or **** coaching....or maybe poor line calls by the center..... it will be interesting to see how it plays out...I really hope this staff can bring back the Levi Brown we drafted, and coach him in to the Levi Brown we fully expected him to be.
 

Mitch

Crawled Through 5 FB Fields
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Posts
13,405
Reaction score
2,982
Location
Wrentham, MA
Brown is far better than most fans give him credit for....he has the physical talent and the skills... from watching him closely the past few seasons I have been scratching my head wondering what exactly he is thinking.....either he is a complete idiot(which I doubt) or he is being told/expecting help on many plays that just doesnt appear. So many times I have seen the dude look right at his man, then at the snap, ignore his guy and crack down on the DT to assist the guard....but a couple times he did this...pre snap he was looking over his shoulder as if he was asking where the help was......

I was a big fan of Levi coming out of Penn state and he was my choice for that draft...I agree with the coach that he has the "ability" to be elite....physically... just to this point it is hard to tell if he is a moron or just a victim of bad coaching.....I understand his early struggles at LT....he was a RT in college and that is where we drafted him to play....because at the time we were expecting to have a lefty as starting QB for the next decade...totally flipping your muscle memory is difficult and takes time...but the time has passed...since then it appears to be a continuous flow of mental errors....or **** coaching....or maybe poor line calls by the center..... it will be interesting to see how it plays out...I really hope this staff can bring back the Levi Brown we drafted, and coach him in to the Levi Brown we fully expected him to be.

Excellent post, Oaken!
 

Stop Whining

Veteran
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
Posts
104
Reaction score
0
Bodha, you say that BA, who turns 75 this year, could be senile. What about me? I'm already 75. Oh, forget it, my wife just told me that I've been senile for a couple of years.


Tom Moore will be 75 this year. BA is only 60 so he's got some time.
 

RugbyMuffin

ASFN IDOL
Joined
Apr 30, 2003
Posts
30,485
Reaction score
4,876
Regardless of what our head coach says, Levi Brown is not a good NFL starting tackle.

Been saying it for 4 years, and nothing has happened to change anything about it.

Concerning this offensive line, it is no better then it was a year ago. Levi Brown is no better then he was two years ago.

The ONLY thing this current offensive offers is some promise. If there are no offensive linemen drafted in April, it is time to press the panic button.

Just like I said last year, when the "big move" of cutting Rex Hadnot, and signing Adam Snyder was made, players who are in there 4th, 5th, or 6th year are not going to magically be improved in there skills. Heck Levi Brown is 29 years old, 29, his whole uninspiring career has been witnessed by this team, and there isn't much there that I would say he has been a good offensive tackle.

Now will people come on this thread and dispute what I am saying, yes. But, with statements like, "Well the NFL as a whole has a void of talent at offensive tackles, so these days Levi Brown is better cause everyone else is worse."

.........Inspiring.

What is worse ? Levi Brown is our best lineman on the roster as I write this.

Levi Brown, T
Lyle Sendlein, C <--- our 2nd best lineman :bang: :bang: :bang:
------------- <--- seriously, who knows at this point on
Bobby Massie, T
Nate Potter, G/T
Adam Snyder, C/G/T ?
Daryn Colledge, G ?
Senio Kelemete, G ?
Jeremiah Warren, G
Blake DeChristopher, G
Mike Gibson, G
Scott Wedige, C

That is just a poor group of offensive lineman to enter a season. There is some promise from Massie, Potter, and Kelemete, but how much ? Who knows ?

If the draft Chance Warmack he easily jumps to #2 on that list, and could be at the top of the list by the end of the regular season.

That offensive line has to be fixed. It will improve this offseason, at least one would hope, but it is not going to be fixed till next year, again if everything goes as planned.

This year for example, the most promising thing that could happen in my opinion:


LT - Levi Brown/Nate Potter
LG - Chance Warmack
OC - Lyle Sendlien
RG - Barrett Jones
RT - Levi Brown/ Bobby Massie

- Brown/Massie/Potter
- Adam Snyder
- ???? Senio Kelemete ????

and again, that is BEST case scenario. Keep in mind Warmack, and Jones would be rookie, and rookie offensive linemen just get man handled in the NFL......well, Warmack may not get manhandled but he is still a rookie.
 
Last edited:

GuernseyCard

ASFN Icon
Joined
Dec 29, 2012
Posts
10,123
Reaction score
5,681
Location
London UK
Brown is far better than most fans give him credit for....he has the physical talent and the skills... from watching him closely the past few seasons I have been scratching my head wondering what exactly he is thinking.....either he is a complete idiot(which I doubt) or he is being told/expecting help on many plays that just doesnt appear. So many times I have seen the dude look right at his man, then at the snap, ignore his guy and crack down on the DT to assist the guard....but a couple times he did this...pre snap he was looking over his shoulder as if he was asking where the help was......

I was a big fan of Levi coming out of Penn state and he was my choice for that draft...I agree with the coach that he has the "ability" to be elite....physically... just to this point it is hard to tell if he is a moron or just a victim of bad coaching.....I understand his early struggles at LT....he was a RT in college and that is where we drafted him to play....because at the time we were expecting to have a lefty as starting QB for the next decade...totally flipping your muscle memory is difficult and takes time...but the time has passed...since then it appears to be a continuous flow of mental errors....or **** coaching....or maybe poor line calls by the center..... it will be interesting to see how it plays out...I really hope this staff can bring back the Levi Brown we drafted, and coach him in to the Levi Brown we fully expected him to be.

I believe LEVI was in fact a left tackle at Penn State.
 

D-Dogg

A Whole New World
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2003
Posts
44,845
Reaction score
580
Location
In The End Zone
Levi has not been what we thought he could be for sure, but he was also coached by a gutter rat who didn't have success with ANY of his lineman.

Perhaps Levi can be coached up by actual coaching; perhaps its just coachspeak smokescreen. Either way, I don't care.
 

Duckjake

LEGACY MEMBER
LEGACY MEMBER
Joined
Jun 10, 2002
Posts
32,190
Reaction score
317
Location
Texas
I hear you Rugby. In concerned about this rent a player approach the Cards are taking but....I think Massie is the real deal. Of course now that I wrote this he'll break his leg in a snowboarding accident or something.

"&&"$&#*%%*!duckjake jinx!!!
 

Dr. Jones

Has No Time For Love
Joined
Nov 2, 2004
Posts
25,157
Reaction score
13,976
Kind of ridiculous Bodha.

What coaches say in public is very different than what they actually believe. Maybe he plans on drafting a tackle and he is throwing out comments like this to disguise his intent?

"We will assess our talent, and build a scheme around them." Arians & Moore.

"I am not a fullback guy." Arians
"I am not a wildcat guy." Arians
 

THESMEL

Smushdown! Take it like a fan!
Joined
May 21, 2010
Posts
5,900
Reaction score
1,049
Location
Vernon
Levi Brown was the reason we got to the SB, Kurt was immobile and we were last in rush attempts, Rush yards in a 1 dimensional pass offense. I've been scorched for years but I know what I know. NO OTHER TACKLE HAS EVER ACCOMPLISHED WHAT LEVI HAS ACCOMPLISHED! Joe Thomas was never asked to do that, No tackle has ever been asked to do what Levi has already done- it was formerly impossible.

26 sacks in 610 attempts with a last place run game 2 years in a row - and people call him a bust? He deserves a medal or a ring, not trashed.

link
http://www.azcardinals.com/news-and...age-Line/1e74d7e4-23f8-439f-9721-b63af3c25c24

FLAGSTAFF – They may have been the group that coach Ken Whisenhunt jokingly called “big ugly oafs,” but dim-witted the offensive line is not.

The argument can be made that the group’s intelligence is a main building block of the Cardinals’ explosive offense. And one guy making that argument is the quarterback himself.

“There are a lot of systems out there where people say ‘We’ll let the quarterback make all the decisions,’ and say, ‘We’ll make it easier on everyone else and harder on the quarterback,’ ” Kurt Warner
You must be registered for see images
said. “(Offensive line coach)

Russ (Grimm) tries to eliminate as much of that as possible and he tries to make his guys see things and handle so much more.”

Perhaps it’s above and beyond the normal call of duty. But it’s just normal life.

“Well,” center Lyle Sendlein
You must be registered for see images
said with a laugh, “nobody wants to be a dummy.”

Grimm downplays what he asks his group to do, saying bluntly “it’s what they need to do under this system.” The Cardinals have a number of protections and it’s up to the linemen – with left tackle Mike Gandy, left guard Reggie Wells, right guard Deuce Lutui and right tackle Levi Brown flanking Sendlein – to understand what they have to do on each play.

If the linemen do their jobs the correct way, Warner only has to worry about coverages and where his hot read may come on a blitz. Warner doesn’t need maulers; he just wants his guys to slow up the pass rush enough to give him the moment to find his receiver.
“It’s not simple,” Grimm said, “but it’s not difficult either.”

Rather than a set way of doing things, Wells said the line’s extra responsibility has been an evolution in the offense. That’s little surprise, given that when Whisenhunt first arrived Matt Leinart and not Warner was the quarterback and the shift to a pass-heavy playbook came when the two-time MVP moved behind center.

“It’s how it has played out, having Kurt back there and what he can do and the weapons we have on the outside, what we can do to help them operate,” Wells said. “It’s obviously beneficial for us. We take a great deal of pride in knowing week in and week out what schemes and protections we will be running.”

The continuity the five starters have had plays into the knowledge the line carries around as well. They started all 20 games together last season. Sendlein, who runs the line calls, gained valuable experience in his first season as a full-time starter in 2008.

They have learned what the others will do on a certain play, or in certain situations. Sendlein said Grimm teaches “rules” and “what-ifs,” a system of dos and don’ts that – while always being tweaked – tries to account for almost every scenario.

Now, Sendlein said, the Cardinals are beyond learning the rules and are polishing the what-ifs.

“If all five of us are doing the same thing, even if we are technically we are wrong, we still have a chance to get a good play going,” Gandy said.

“We expect big things. We have no excuses.”

Knowledge is power. It’s also makes anyone look very smart in what they are doing. By now, the offensive line’s intelligence is showing.

“It speaks to our intelligence and our talent level as well,” Wells said. “There aren’t many offensive lines called upon to do what we do week in and week out, not just from the scheme aspect but also protecting as many times as we do and not have guys mentioned for Pro Bowl and things like that. It underestimates the abilities of guys on that line.”
 

Redheart

Stack 'em up!
Joined
Aug 9, 2002
Posts
4,391
Reaction score
3
Location
Mesa
New coach, who the hell knows, but I will give it some credit as draft-smoke.

I will say this; BA is going up against three really good coaches in this division, we are going to find out quickly.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
Bodha

Bodha

ASFN Addict
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
Sep 3, 2011
Posts
5,710
Reaction score
754
FWIWs Levi's been a pro bowl alternate before in his career. This means, for whatever reason, he's far more highly regarded by players and coaches than he is by fans.


Is that the benchmark for being "Elite"?

Derek Anderson was a pro bowler, is he elite?

What a coach says in public, what he says to his players and what he really thinks can be and usually are quite different. Time will tell what he really thinks of Brown and Stanton's ability.


Did I not say that with my Harbaugh example?

My point of this thread is, Its one thing to talk up players, its another to give the highest praise (besides calling them a HOFr) we can in the NFL, by calling a guy "Elite".

Theres only a handful of Elite players in the NFL, and so BA is saying Levi Brown is on par with Tom Brady, Fitz, CJ. Thats going too far.

WAY too early for a thread like this. Hes blowing smoke for the draft thats a guarentee. Hes also instilling confidence and backing his players. Absolutely no reason to jump to conclusions.

The title of this thread is "EARLY concerns about BA".....

Its too early for early?...

Kind of ridiculous Bodha.

What coaches say in public is very different than what they actually believe. Maybe he plans on drafting a tackle and he is throwing out comments like this to disguise his intent?

"ELITE"

He couldnt come up with a better description, he had to jump right to ELITE?

Next hell be calling Rashard the next Jim Brown.


Levi Brown was the reason we got to the SB
Stopped reading there
 

THESMEL

Smushdown! Take it like a fan!
Joined
May 21, 2010
Posts
5,900
Reaction score
1,049
Location
Vernon
I'm concerned for OC Mike Miller? will he ever work again?

Whisenhunt probably said it best this offseason when he joked that Miller, his new coordinator, would be responsible only for the plays that failed to work. NFC West head coaches will influence play calling even if they do not call the plays all the time.

Am worried that Darren Urban is burnt out- I mean:


I guess I could try and analyze those, but the picks are what they are, and all I can think of is the chance to get out of there somewhat early Saturday since (barring a trade, God, don’t let there be a trade) the Cards’ last choice is 176 and the draft runs 254 picks. No seventh rounder.

Followed by:

Some quick tidbits as I try to sneak in a day off (because I just can’t leave you hanging):
 
Last edited:

JeffGollin

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
20,472
Reaction score
3,056
Location
Holmdel, NJ
Can he coach?

That's all that counts.

We can dwell on every possible thing that could go wrong - from Levi straining his pinkie to Calais bumping his head in a low doorway all the way to Glendale being hit by an asteroid & forcing us to play all our games in New Mexico.

What could possibly go wrong? Everything.

What could possibly go right? Everything.

Right now, in the funky Northeast, it's fairly nice outside. Cards vs. Mets and Tiger on the teevee. A million miles away from what BA said nearly a month ago.
 
OP
OP
Bodha

Bodha

ASFN Addict
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
Sep 3, 2011
Posts
5,710
Reaction score
754
Can he coach?

That's all that counts.

We can dwell on every possible thing that could go wrong - from Levi straining his pinkie to Calais bumping his head in a low doorway all the way to Glendale being hit by an asteroid & forcing us to play all our games in New Mexico.

What could possibly go wrong? Everything.

What could possibly go right? Everything.

Right now, in the funky Northeast, it's fairly nice outside. Cards vs. Mets and Tiger on the teevee. A million miles away from what BA said nearly a month ago.


I dont disagree. Im not saying one way or the other, Im just pointing it out.

You own what you say, and this man whos been a scout for many years, and is highly respected in football circles called a widely accepted "OK" player "Elite".


Can we at least all agree that that was probably a very poor choice of wording on BAs part if anything.
 

Staff online

Forum statistics

Threads
538,732
Posts
5,281,174
Members
6,279
Latest member
Monti Ossentfort
Top