Is MJ right?

[JCSunsfan]

Knowing what you now know, at this moment, Kobe and LeBron are coming out in the draft as rookies. Who do you take?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Knowing what you now know, at this moment, Kobe and LeBron are coming out in the draft as rookies. Who do you take?

If you're going for full on fantasy, Lebron. Put Lebron in his prime with Phil and Shaq and that team wins 10 championships. MJ points to the rings because it lends credence to his own brilliance and further distances James (and even Bryant) from His Greatness. I think a good coach like Phil gets Lebron to the next level where he would legitimately be the leading candidate for greatest ever. As it is, I don't think he ever approaches MJ and probably won't even reach Kobe's level.

Steve

 

[JCSunsfan]

If you're going for full on fantasy, Lebron. Put Lebron in his prime with Phil and Shaq and that team wins 10 championships. MJ points to the rings because it lends credence to his own brilliance and further distances James (and even Bryant) from His Greatness. I think a good coach like Phil gets Lebron to the next level where he would legitimately be the leading candidate for greatest ever. As it is, I don't think he ever approaches MJ and probably won't even reach Kobe's level.

Steve

Totally agree. Too bad Riley won't ever get a Phil Jackson to go with LeBron. LeBron is more complete than Kobe. He is much better at facilitating everyone around him. LeBron has some Magic in him. But he is also big, strong, fast.

Kobe has ice in his veins at clutch time.

 

[Phrazbit]

I'm sorry but Kobe is the most overrated clutch player ever. His shooting percentages in the clutch are awful. For every game winner he has hit he has fired up several bricks in the closing seconds while refusing to pass out of a double team.

Just look at the playoffs the last several years. The Lakers biggest "clutch" moments have come as a teammate was wisely setup to get a putback on Kobe's predictable air ball.

Kobe is a great player, but his the myth of him being clutch is based on quantity of opportunity rather than his quality in the actual situation.

 

[Sunburn]

The thing is, Kobe could not take the Lakers to the title by himself either. It didn't happen for Kobe unless he was paired up with other All-Star talent like Shaq, Pau, Bynum, etc. Just like it did not happen for Lebron until paired up with other All-Star talent like Wade, Bosh. I would argue that by themselves on their team, Lebron alone in Cleveland and Kobe alone in LA, Lebron actually took his teams further. This could be evidence that Lebron is the more valuable player.

 

[BC867]

This could be evidence that Lebron is the more valuable player.

This is like comparing apples and oranges. Kobe is a Wing who has passing skills. LeBron is a Power Forward who can cover any position on the court.

Magic Johnson was a legitimate Point Guard and could do the same thing, which is why Kobe (despite his points scored) isn't the greatest or 2nd greatest player in Lakers history. (Or even third if you throw in George Mikan of the Minneapolis Lakers.)

And Kobe is certainly no Michael Jordan. With his versatility, LeBron has a better chance of someday reaching that lofty plateau.

 

[AzStevenCal]

This is like comparing apples and oranges. Kobe is a Wing who has passing skills. LeBron is a Power Forward who can cover any position on the court.

Magic Johnson was a legitimate Point Guard and could do the same thing, which is why Kobe (despite his points scored) isn't the greatest or 2nd greatest player in Lakers history. (Or even third if you throw in George Mikan of the Minneapolis Lakers.)

And Kobe is certainly no Michael Jordan. With his versatility, LeBron has a better chance of someday reaching that lofty plateau.

They're both fruits, they are both colorful, they are both sweet, they both grow on trees, they are both vitamin packed and low in calories. It's pretty easy to compare apples and oranges and it's pretty easy to compare Kobe and Lebron. That doesn't mean there aren't differences, in fact, without differences there can be no comparisons. But, in the end, I agree that Kobe wasn't even the greatest or 2nd greatest Laker. I can't join you in the Mikan comparison though, I didn't roam the earth with dinosaurs like a few of you did.

Steve

 

[Errntknght]

I actually saw a number of games in which Mikan played. He was dominant in the era but he didn't compare to Shaq or even Olajuwan. Right now he might be the top center in the league, with Howard a shell of his former self and Bynum chronically injured... he just has to beat out Lopez, right?

 

[Mainstreet]

I've seen most of the centers play even Russell and Chamberlain less Mikan. I'd still chose Kareem as the best center I've seen play. IMO, Kareem doesn't get the credit he deserves because he had such a long career. Many fans only remember seeing him play past his prime.

 

[jw7]

It's not even remotely close. LeBron by a mile. He is huge at 6'8" and can play all 5 positions. The scary thing is he is still getting better.

 

[slinslin]

Lebron is better than MJ.

 

[BC867]

Lebron is better than MJ.

Sure he is. MJ turns 50 tomorrow.

 

[Cheesebeef]

LeBron is more talented then MJ, but at this point he's not the leader/clutch player MJ ended up being. And both of those are equal parts with talent which combine to define how great a player truly is IMO. That's not to say he can't get there, but right now? It's not close.

 

[Lorenzo]

Lebron and kobe are both great. Lebron is not really like kobe or jordan. if anything kobe is more like jordan than lebron is. lebron is more like magic johnson. in the clutch he does not always take the shots like kobe and jordan did. his dribble penetration ability and passing facilitates other guys more. jordan and kobe had that ability as well, but the role that they played on their team was typically to take the last shot no matter what(Even if it was a bad shot). dirk did that as well in dallas pretty much exclusively after nash left. I think it is often dependent on the make up of a team. when kobe played with shaq it was different, but even in those early days you saw the clutch playoff games that he had (game 7 against portland). after shaq left kobe pretty much carried the team every night since then.

lebron carried cleveland every night before he went to miami. now lebron plays with wade and a lot of 3 point shooters that stretch the floor and he is a passer as well. I haven't watched as many heat games this year so maybe lebron is taking more of that closer role now and will do that as he gets older. he certainly has that ability to knockdown unguardable shots. that is the only thing that his game has really lacked in his youth. when he starts to do that he will be like jordan and kobe.

at this point I would take kobe, but when it is all said and done it might change because lebron is still young and his best years should be ahead. kobe's best years are likely over.

there will never be another jordan in my opinion. most dominant player I've ever seen in any sport.

at the end of the day we can make all of these silly comparisons, but in my opinion the mark of a true great player is to say there was never a guy like him before and there will never be another like him again. the greatest of the greats typically have that trait. at the end of the day there was never a guy like lebron before, and there may never be one like him again.

 

[Lorenzo]

Lebron is better than MJ.

which MJ would that be? the one that left chicago to team up with 2 other all stars? or the one who's 4th quarter point total in the finals when combined with wade's still were lower than dirk nowitzki's?

hmmm, 2 things that would have never happened with jordan. there will never be another player like jordan again. the only people I ever hear say that lebron or kobe are better than jordan are fans that get drunk off kool aid for the home team or are young kids that were too young to see the dominant player that mj was.

MJ did say there are only 4 active players that could still be elite in his day: Kobe, Lebron, Duncan, and Nowitzki.

 

[AzStevenCal]

which MJ would that be? the one that left chicago to team up with 2 other all stars? or the one who's 4th quarter point total in the finals when combined with wade's still were lower than dirk nowitzki's?

hmmm, 2 things that would have never happened with jordan. there will never be another player like jordan again. the only people I ever hear say that lebron or kobe are better than jordan are fans that get drunk off kool aid for the home team or are young kids that were too young to see the dominant player that mj was.

MJ did say there are only 4 active players that could still be elite in his day: Kobe, Lebron, Duncan, and Nowitzki.

If that's what he said it's no wonder his team's suck. The Duncan and Dirk that are active now would not be elite in MJ's day. Duncan and Dirk in their prime would be but they are shadows now. Maybe Dirk gets back there but I doubt it, no way Duncan does. Also, Westbrook, Durant and Paul would all be elite players 20 years ago.

Steve

 

[slinslin]

which MJ would that be? the one that left chicago to team up with 2 other all stars? or the one who's 4th quarter point total in the finals when combined with wade's still were lower than dirk nowitzki's?

hmmm, 2 things that would have never happened with jordan. there will never be another player like jordan again. the only people I ever hear say that lebron or kobe are better than jordan are fans that get drunk off kool aid for the home team or are young kids that were too young to see the dominant player that mj was.

MJ did say there are only 4 active players that could still be elite in his day: Kobe, Lebron, Duncan, and Nowitzki.

Oh please... Jordan had Pippen and Rodman among others, Pippen alone is a much better 2nd star than even Wade.
The argument of Lebron leaving Cleveland is totally moot Rodman > Bosh, Pippen > Wade.

You think Jordan would have won in Cleveland with a gimpy Ilgauskas as the best teammate he ever has?

MJ is full of it if he thinks only those 4 players would be elite in his day. In his 80s time when pace was on average higher than the fastest teams now. No defense was played and the league overall was no on the athletic level it is now.

Lebron > MJ, only argument for MJ are rings really and that is a total bogus argument when comparing individual players. Individually Lebron is a better and more versatile player than MJ.

 

[BC867]

Lebron > MJ, only argument for MJ are rings really and that is a total bogus argument when comparing individual players. Individually Lebron is a better and more versatile player than MJ.

This is an interesting argument. Which is more important among the best players in the game? CONSISTENCY/VERSATILITY or CONSISTENCY/CLUTCH?

LeBron exemplifies CONSISTENCY/VERSATILITY; Michael exemplifies CONSISTENCY/CLUTCH. And the answer might be that it is a matter of opinion.

It is also interesting that when Michael was LeBron's age, he had won only one Championship, just as LeBron.

Check out this current related article.

http://news.yahoo.com/michael-lebron-one-one-verbally-204852728--nba.html

 

[cardncubfan]

Lebron is better than MJ.

No way in hell. Lebron is waaay overrated imho.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Lebron > MJ, only argument for MJ are rings really and that is a total bogus argument when comparing individual players. Individually Lebron is a better and more versatile player than MJ.

It is like every day you find new and interesting ways to destroy your credibility.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Lebron lives in a world where lowering your shoulder into the defender to create space is acceptable, no one can hand check you, and illegal defense.

The entire game is designed to let you get to the rack now.

Plus there were legit centers back then waiting to destroy you if you came to the hole (Olajuwon, Ewing, Mutumbo, Shaq). Heck Rik Smits would be a top 4 center in the NBA right now.

It isn't comparable based on those things alone. I personally don't feel Lebron is even in Olajuwon's level yet.

 

[slinslin]

Lebron lives in a world where lowering your shoulder into the defender to create space is acceptable, no one can hand check you, and illegal defense.

The entire game is designed to let you get to the rack now.

Plus there were legit centers back then waiting to destroy you if you came to the hole (Olajuwon, Ewing, Mutumbo, Shaq). Heck Rik Smits would be a top 4 center in the NBA right now.

It isn't comparable based on those things alone. I personally don't feel Lebron is even in Olajuwon's level yet.

Yet during Jordans era espcially the first half of his era, defense was infinitely worse than what it is today.

The game right now is much slower paced, much more defense oriented. But arguing with facts has never lead far here.

IF you think Lebron would do any worse 20 years ago that is a joke, at worst he would still be a much better version of Charles Barkley.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Yet during Jordans era espcially the first half of his era, defense was infinitely worse than what it is today.

The game right now is much slower paced, much more defense oriented. But arguing with facts has never lead far here.

IF you think Lebron would do any worse 20 years ago that is a joke, at worst he would still be a much better version of Charles Barkley.

Well, see, there's your problem. You've apparently found the one place on the planet where facts have no value. You poor man, how hard this must be for you. Oh, if only there were some other possibility for why your arguments often fall flat.

Steve

 

[desertdawg]

The game is mental. The game is mental. I don't care who has better physical skills once we get up in the Kobe/Bron range, at that point it becomes who has the mental will not to lose, who has the killer instinct? Who is the only guy I don't want to have the ball with 2 seconds left? Which dude cares more about winning then he does his team-mates, wife, family...

There is only one answer here. Kobe friggin Bryant by a mile. Babybron bron does have more skills, more tools, and all that but Kobe is a gangsta on the court, blast your ass in a heartbeat gangsta, straight killa. Lebron doesn't have it in him, but if he did then Jordan would have something to worry about....right now Jordan aint got to worry about nothing.

real killers...
Jordan
Kobe
Magic
Bird
Dwane

Lebron will never make that list, never even seen him mad. When he takes over a game it starts very early in the game. He aint no killer.

 

[desertdawg]

It is like every day you find new and interesting ways to destroy your credibility.