and the speculation begins-----

Catfish

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Now comes the great chorus from Big Red Fandom. Fire Whiz. Keep Whiz, fire Davis. Hire an offensive co-ordinator. Sign a proven QB. Draft a QB. Sign a proven pass-rusher. Draft the best available pass-rusher. Draft a TE.

I don't know what all the answers are, (or even what they should be). So far as Whiz is concerned, he has just recently received a substantial contract extension. That will more than likely play heavily with the Cardinals, who are not prone to leaving money on the table for someone to take elsewhere. My personal feeling is-----that there should only be one coach on this entire staff who should be considered a positive keeper above all others, (John Lott). He has done more to change the dynamics of Cardinal Football than any other single person here, (including Whizenhunt).

I also feel that there is some very real talent on this team, both from a coaching and player standpoint, and that before any decisions are made considering who to hire or fire, or which players to keep or to go after, it is imperative that this organization hire a true football GM, and place their faith in him to evaluate what we have that is workable, and how to proceed going forward from here in all aspects. I believe that a plan must be agreed upon, and money allocated to do what is necessary, so that a return to a Western Division Title is probable, and playoffs are in the offing once more.

I have seen the frustration in the eyes, the faces, and the actions of the players. Like them, I want to see a return to 'One Heartbeat'. I don't even know if that is possible to do if we keep Whizenhunt as HC. I believe he has the talent and the knowlege to do that, but I don't know if he can even rely upon himself to do what is in the best interest of the team, instead of what his personal preferances are. THAT is exactly why we absolutely need a strong, knowlegable GM to ensure that 'the plan', whatever that may be, is adhered to. It is my opinion that the biggest changes Whizenhunt needs to make, are those within his own head, and that a strong GM is imperative in order to keep him from straying from the correct course.

In my opinion, this must be done very quickly, as time is wasting, and we have talent that needs to be identified and kept, and we have needs to identify, and means to fill those needs identified and chosen. I pray that both Mr. B. and Michael can agree upon this. This is no longer a weak-sister team in this league, but a real force with ample revenue streams available in order for them to compete with the biggest and best. I hope that they are up to the challenge, because their fans have certainly answered the team's call for their support.
 

Buckybird

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I agree Fish.

But...as you say earlier in your post, the Bidwills usually don't give away $$$ to people no longer on the staff. Graves was resigned last year also & he is the puppet who helps save Mr B cash by not resigning most of his high dollar core players. Graves will be here at least as long as Wiz is & you can bank on that my friend!!!
 

PACardsFan

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Well, we have plenty of them on this board.

You are sadly correct. Too many of them haven't been Cardinal fans long enough to know that we've only had 2 good coaches in our entire existence as a franchise. And we want to fire one of those after ONE bad season. Didn't we learn the hard way with Coryell??
 

Red Dawn

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Only a moron would be blindly supportive of his performance as HC and OC this year just because we had a few good years.

I'm giving the Whis a pass on this year, but only this year. He can build his house of Cards, and if he fails next season with similar results, off with his head.

Just wondering, how many down years is a HC allowed in the Cardinal scheme of things?
 
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NJCardFan

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You are sadly correct. Too many of them haven't been Cardinal fans long enough to know that we've only had 2 good coaches in our entire existence as a franchise. And we want to fire one of those after ONE bad season. Didn't we learn the hard way with Coryell??
Huh. Just off the top of my head I'd say Jimmy Conzelman and Charlie Winner were fairly decent coaches. Then of course there was Paddy Driscoll. You were saying something about not being a Card fan long enough?
 

DoTheDew

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If one losing record in 4 years is enough for a coach to be canned, then pretty much every legendary coach from Lombardi to Walsh would have been fired long before making a name for themselves. Some of you need to step back, gain some perspective, and see if Whiz has what it takes to right the ship or not.
 

NJCardFan

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If one losing record in 4 years is enough for a coach to be canned, then pretty much every legendary coach from Lombardi to Walsh would have been fired long before making a name for themselves. Some of you need to step back, gain some perspective, and see if Whiz has what it takes to right the ship or not.

Meh, losing season happen to the best of them, however, this team went from SB contender to the toilet in 1 year.
 

Duckjake

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If one losing record in 4 years is enough for a coach to be canned, then pretty much every legendary coach from Lombardi to Walsh would have been fired long before making a name for themselves. Some of you need to step back, gain some perspective, and see if Whiz has what it takes to right the ship or not.

Record is irrelevant. Coaches get fired because of the situation with that years' team.

Players not performing, schemes being pathetic, team having no heart. Things that can be evaluated and reasonably determined that they aren't going to get better just with the passage of time or a few changes in player personnel.
 
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TJ

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Record is irrelevant. Coaches get fired because of the situation with that years' team.

Players not performing, schemes being pathetic, team having no heart. Things that can be evaluated and reasonably determined that they aren't going to get better just with the passage of time or a few changes in player personnel.

These situations are what cause a record to be what it is. There arent many 5-11 teams with good schemes and players performing at peak levels. And if it isnt one thing, its another.

Good coaches have these types of seasons, much to the chagrin of the fan base. It's the great ones that find ways to rebound. This will be a defining offseason for Whiz. Im kinda looking forward to it
 

Seandonic

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This is no longer a weak-sister team in this league, but a real force with ample revenue streams available in order for them to compete with the biggest and best. I hope that they are up to the challenge, because their fans have certainly answered the team's call for their support.
Amen to this.:clapping:
 

Zeno

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Good coaches have these types of seasons, much to the chagrin of the fan base. It's the great ones that find ways to rebound. This will be a defining offseason for Whiz. Im kinda looking forward to it

I agree with this 100%, this offseason will be the defining moment with Whisenhunt. If he doesn't make major changes (coaches & players) and our record is sub .500 in 2011 with the same type of crap--players giving up, making dumb penalties, not holding people accountable, poor gameplanning, lack of preparation, poor player development--he needs to go. 2011 is make or break--I can even deal with a losing record (7-9 no worse) if the team at least looks like it is on an upswing and is making serious improvements.

Whisenhunt isn't entirely to blame for our current mess...the front office & the players share responsibility as well, but he is the one who is will be held ultimately responsible if it doesn't get fixed. For us to finish in the bottom half of the league in both Offense & Defense in all major categories is UNACCEPTABLE...that needs to be fixed.
 
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desertdawg

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Only a moron would be blindly supportive of his performance as HC and OC this year just because we had a few good years.

I'm giving the Whis a pass on this year, but only this year. He can build his house of Cards, and if he fails next season with similar results, off with his head.

Just wondering, how many down years is a HC allowed in the Cardinal scheme of things?
Except for the moron thingy, I am with you.
 

DoTheDew

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Meh, losing season happen to the best of them, however, this team went from SB contender to the toilet in 1 year.

Bill Walsh won his first SB in SF and then won 3 games the next year. It does happen to the best of them.
 

DoTheDew

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Record is irrelevant. Coaches get fired because of the situation with that years' team.

Players not performing, schemes being pathetic, team having no heart. Things that can be evaluated and reasonably determined that they aren't going to get better just with the passage of time or a few changes in player personnel.

Players playing with no heart and schemes being pathetic...Sounds like Denny's last season with us. Clearly Whiz came in and changed that in his first season. Can't say it was Warner he was already here and we went 5-11.

Yes some coaches get fired after one lousy season sometimes. Unrightfully so IMO. Fact is Whiz is the most accomplished coach in our history since moving to AZ. If we let Denny and McGinnis have 3 lousy seasons before firing them, why do we want to can Whiz after one? Just assanine.
 

john h

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Now comes the great chorus from Big Red Fandom. Fire Whiz. Keep Whiz, fire Davis. Hire an offensive co-ordinator. Sign a proven QB. Draft a QB. Sign a proven pass-rusher. Draft the best available pass-rusher. Draft a TE.

I don't know what all the answers are, (or even what they should be). So far as Whiz is concerned, he has just recently received a substantial contract extension. That will more than likely play heavily with the Cardinals, who are not prone to leaving money on the table for someone to take elsewhere. My personal feeling is-----that there should only be one coach on this entire staff who should be considered a positive keeper above all others, (John Lott). He has done more to change the dynamics of Cardinal Football than any other single person here, (including Whizenhunt).

I also feel that there is some very real talent on this team, both from a coaching and player standpoint, and that before any decisions are made considering who to hire or fire, or which players to keep or to go after, it is imperative that this organization hire a true football GM, and place their faith in him to evaluate what we have that is workable, and how to proceed going forward from here in all aspects. I believe that a plan must be agreed upon, and money allocated to do what is necessary, so that a return to a Western Division Title is probable, and playoffs are in the offing once more.

I have seen the frustration in the eyes, the faces, and the actions of the players. Like them, I want to see a return to 'One Heartbeat'. I don't even know if that is possible to do if we keep Whizenhunt as HC. I believe he has the talent and the knowlege to do that, but I don't know if he can even rely upon himself to do what is in the best interest of the team, instead of what his personal preferances are. THAT is exactly why we absolutely need a strong, knowlegable GM to ensure that 'the plan', whatever that may be, is adhered to. It is my opinion that the biggest changes Whizenhunt needs to make, are those within his own head, and that a strong GM is imperative in order to keep him from straying from the correct course.

In my opinion, this must be done very quickly, as time is wasting, and we have talent that needs to be identified and kept, and we have needs to identify, and means to fill those needs identified and chosen. I pray that both Mr. B. and Michael can agree upon this. This is no longer a weak-sister team in this league, but a real force with ample revenue streams available in order for them to compete with the biggest and best. I hope that they are up to the challenge, because their fans have certainly answered the team's call for their support.

One of many things this organization does not do well is make timely decisions. Any firing of coaches should have already been done. Hiring one can wait until after the playoff season if somone you are targeting is still playing. You show a lack of class the longer you wait to fire someone when you know you are going to fire them. We are also slow to pull the trigger on trades or signing of FA. In some cases like perhaps in 2010 we might have upgraded the QB we eventually signed had we not dorked around like a dufas. Once you have made up you mind to fire someone then do it. I do not care if it is in midseason or not. Get the show on the road. It is likely the guy being fired already has a clue. Except with this organization.
 

thephoenixson28

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I hope that the cards draft newton. Sign both mcnabb and moss. Our offense just got better. Remember IMO.
 

red desert

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What is most telling, and bothersome, to me is how often Wiz and Graves use the, "...we've had success doing it this way... " when responding to critics.

Brothers please... quit acting like you are Bill Belichick or Bill Walsh.

Kurt Warner was by far the main reason for our success, followed by Haley, followed by Fitz and Q. Somewhere further down the line Wiz might figure into the success but only because he hired Haley.

- He passed on Peterson for Brown (when everyone in the free world knew that Brown was at best a late first rounder) EGO did this.
- He pissed one of the most honorable, hardest working, toughest, players the NFL has ever seen and one of the franchise's legendary players by doing whatever the hell it was he did. EGO did this.
- He brought in Scud to replace Kurt Warner when everyone in the free world knew Scud worthless. EGO did this.
- His handling of the Leinart situation was bush league. EGO did this.
- Keeping Clancy? EGO. Okay, maybe just idiot Graves meddling.

I could go on, but we all know the how the story goes.



As for Graves, well, Graves is just an idiot. I so do not like the way he operates.

Wiz's blind stubbornness and ego have been on display all season. I, for one, have little faith left in his abilities as a leader and head coach of this team. His comments as posted by Somers this afternoon serve only to heighten my concern.

John H. posted earlier something along the lines that the lack of decisiveness from this organization will seal their fate, yet again.

You know, on some level, maybe Warner leading this group to the Super Bowl was the worst thing that cold have happened to Graves and Wiz's ego. Because now they can go have soup at the Bidwill's house and flaunt their success at bowtie bill.

In the immortal words of Winnie the Pooh:

Oh bother...
 

artp

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I agree with this 100%, this offseason will be the defining moment with Whisenhunt. If he doesn't make major changes (coaches & players) and our record is sub .500 in 2011 with the same type of crap--players giving up, making dumb penalties, not holding people accountable, poor gameplanning, lack of preparation, poor player development--he needs to go. 2011 is make or break--I can even deal with a losing record (7-9 no worse) if the team at least looks like it is on an upswing and is making serious improvements.

The team will be on an upswing when we get decent QB play.
 

Buckybird

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The team will be on an upswing when we get decent QB play.

:mulli:
And yet people like you still believe this D is good enough to stop someone with the game on the line & an offensive line that can't block me chasing our QB or stopping my 66 yr old mother from penetrating the backfield on run downs.

This team has many flaws & the sooner coaches, management & the fans realize that the faster it gets fixed!!! And that's reality...
 

PACardsFan

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Huh. Just off the top of my head I'd say Jimmy Conzelman and Charlie Winner were fairly decent coaches. Then of course there was Paddy Driscoll. You were saying something about not being a Card fan long enough?

Charley Winner was the coach when I started watching the Cardinals. Playoff wins........................Zero, Zero , Zero , Nada, NONE! The other two had to be long before your time. Sorry, but if you think we should fire Whiz, you then become part of the moron brigade.
 

MrYeahBut

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Only a moron would be blindly supportive of his performance as HC and OC this year just because we had a few good years.

I'm giving the Whis a pass on this year, but only this year. He can build his house of Cards, and if he fails next season with similar results, off with his head.

Just wondering, how many down years is a HC allowed in the Cardinal scheme of things?



He got rid of Leinart for you, maybe that should buy him a little more time.


.
 

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