deal fell through.... what do you guys think about this though?
http://www.detnews.com/article/2009...nterested-in-Edwin-Jackson--Curtis-Granderson
http://www.detnews.com/article/2009...nterested-in-Edwin-Jackson--Curtis-Granderson
D-Backs trying to trade Scherzer
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Lefty
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I am losing all faith in Byrnes. No way do you trade Max for Jackson. I'm waiting for the Diamondbacks to sign another 38-year old has-been reliever.
I call BS on that.
The Commish
youknowhatimsayin?
I don't think it was BS - several media outlets from the cities of teams involved were reporting the deal.
I think the deal itself is BS because we would have been overpaying in a move that was essentially lateral.
I don't have a problem trading Scherzer - after watching him pitch a full season I question his ability to ever become a solid #2 much less a #1. He should be a closer IMO. IF we do trade him I just want to make sure we're getting a fair deal.
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the dbacks site talked about it too soooooooo
The Commish
youknowhatimsayin?
Deal is alive again...
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/jon_heyman/12/07/winter.buzz/index.html
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/jon_heyman/12/07/winter.buzz/index.html
82CardsGrad
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Agreed. It would've been great to see Max develop into a legit starter, but it doesn't seem that's in the cards. He possesses too limited of a pitch arsenal, and simply can't throw first-pitch strikes... Hence, he struggles to make it past the 5th/6th innings.
Edwin Jackson is only 26 but has 7 years of MLB experience. He became a fulltime starter in '07 with the Devil Rays, and has steadily improved since then. I think his upside is at minimum equal to, but might even be higher than that of Scherzer.
Kennedy is a very interesting situation... He had a great career at USC, but has not pitched well when the Yankees have given him a shot in the majors. He did have some health issues that might have contributed to his pitching problems (one issues was an aneurism under his right armpit).
Many compare him to Mike Mussina in terms of his pitching style, but clearly he still has a TON to prove. Still, he is only 25 years old...
I really don't think this trade would be all that bad at all for the D-Backs...
boondockdrunk
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Edwin Jackson would be a nice addition to the rotation but I am not sold on giving up Scherzer and Schlereth for him.
Ian Kennedy is the usual Yankee trade fodder and the fact that Byrnes is so enamored with him is disgusting. I was high on Ian when he pitched for USC but since then he has lost 4-5 MPH on his fastball which makes his off speed pitches less than effective at the major league level. His stuff is now comparable to Petit but with maybe 1-2 MPH more, and I think that we all know that will not cut it in the show. He is also scared to throw strikes so he will nibble and nibble until he loads the bases.
Edwin is a good pitcher and had a great season last year, but still has a ton of issues to work out. For one he needs to be more consistent, but then again we could say the same about Max.
Edit: Just read that this is a done deal pending physicals. Still not too sure how I feel about this trade. Nothing great, it has the potential to make us marginally better or marginally worse depending on how Edwin continues to improve or if he regresses. Ian Kennedy is a throw in who can take the #5 spot in the rotation but should NOT be counted on to be anything more than that. Giving up Max hurts but I think we all know that he did not have the pitches or stamina to be a force in this league.
Ian Kennedy is the usual Yankee trade fodder and the fact that Byrnes is so enamored with him is disgusting. I was high on Ian when he pitched for USC but since then he has lost 4-5 MPH on his fastball which makes his off speed pitches less than effective at the major league level. His stuff is now comparable to Petit but with maybe 1-2 MPH more, and I think that we all know that will not cut it in the show. He is also scared to throw strikes so he will nibble and nibble until he loads the bases.
Edwin is a good pitcher and had a great season last year, but still has a ton of issues to work out. For one he needs to be more consistent, but then again we could say the same about Max.
Edit: Just read that this is a done deal pending physicals. Still not too sure how I feel about this trade. Nothing great, it has the potential to make us marginally better or marginally worse depending on how Edwin continues to improve or if he regresses. Ian Kennedy is a throw in who can take the #5 spot in the rotation but should NOT be counted on to be anything more than that. Giving up Max hurts but I think we all know that he did not have the pitches or stamina to be a force in this league.
Diamondback Jay
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Josh Byrnes jumped the shark.
boondockdrunk
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devilfan02
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This trade is so stupid on so many levels. I don't even know where to start.
You don't give up on a talent like Scherzer for a one-year wonder and a injury plagued prospect who projects as a 4-5 starter. So f'ing stupid. The Tigers tried to trade Jackson to Seattle for Brandon Marrow and even they said no.
Also, Scherzer still has 5 years left on his deal while Jackson has 2 years left (both arbitration eligible). I heard that Jackson's 2010 salary will eat up a majority of our spending money this offseason but that may be wrong. If true, it will cement this trade as completely moronic.
Oh, and one more thing - Jackson and Kennedy are both Scott Boras clients which means we'll be trading Jackson within the next two seasons.
Whatever remains of Josh Byrnes' Glory Boy status is about to be eradicated. This is a Joe Jr. caliber trade
You don't give up on a talent like Scherzer for a one-year wonder and a injury plagued prospect who projects as a 4-5 starter. So f'ing stupid. The Tigers tried to trade Jackson to Seattle for Brandon Marrow and even they said no.
Also, Scherzer still has 5 years left on his deal while Jackson has 2 years left (both arbitration eligible). I heard that Jackson's 2010 salary will eat up a majority of our spending money this offseason but that may be wrong. If true, it will cement this trade as completely moronic.
Oh, and one more thing - Jackson and Kennedy are both Scott Boras clients which means we'll be trading Jackson within the next two seasons.
Whatever remains of Josh Byrnes' Glory Boy status is about to be eradicated. This is a Joe Jr. caliber trade
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187
BIRDGANG
Josh Byrnes is a complete idiot. This trade makes absolutely no sense unless Max has a throwing arm that is about to explode or he contracted some crazy disease. Such a dumb trade. You don't sell low and buy high, this FO is a joke.
82CardsGrad
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Perhaps the fact that being locked into Scherzer for 5 more years is a key reason why they dumped him. Don't you think they would love to get out from the CY deal as well if there were any takers??
Max hasn't proved much at all. Yes, he's got a terrific arm, but beyond that, the kid still has left a ton of questions about his ability to one day become a solid, dependable starter. And he suffers from two very serious, potentially fatal flaws for a starter: 1.) Can't throw first-pitch strikes, 2.) Only has 2 pitches.
Say what you want about Edwin Jackson, but at 26 years old, he's proven a bit more than 25 year old Scherzer. He's proven he can be a reliable starter.
As for Kennedy, it's impossible to make any determination on the kid as he virtually has zero major league experience. It's a bit of gamble, however it's not that big of a stretch to think that Kennedy can become a solid starter as well. He certainly has the pedigree and the tools. He will now be given a chance, which he couldn't get as a Yankee...
I don't see how you can be so against this move...
Max hasn't proved much at all. Yes, he's got a terrific arm, but beyond that, the kid still has left a ton of questions about his ability to one day become a solid, dependable starter. And he suffers from two very serious, potentially fatal flaws for a starter: 1.) Can't throw first-pitch strikes, 2.) Only has 2 pitches.
Say what you want about Edwin Jackson, but at 26 years old, he's proven a bit more than 25 year old Scherzer. He's proven he can be a reliable starter.
As for Kennedy, it's impossible to make any determination on the kid as he virtually has zero major league experience. It's a bit of gamble, however it's not that big of a stretch to think that Kennedy can become a solid starter as well. He certainly has the pedigree and the tools. He will now be given a chance, which he couldn't get as a Yankee...
I don't see how you can be so against this move...
Lefty
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http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-big-trade
Arizona, though… what a mess. Jackson and Kennedy will shore up their rotation, but they aren’t worth a kid as good as Max Scherzer. Jackson’s a mid-rotation starter whose salaries are escalating in arbitration, while Kennedy is a back-end starter who missed most of 2009. They didn’t get better, they didn’t save money, and they didn’t get younger. This move is just not a good one for the D’Backs, unless there’s another impressive piece going to Arizona that hasn’t been reported.
Arizona, though… what a mess. Jackson and Kennedy will shore up their rotation, but they aren’t worth a kid as good as Max Scherzer. Jackson’s a mid-rotation starter whose salaries are escalating in arbitration, while Kennedy is a back-end starter who missed most of 2009. They didn’t get better, they didn’t save money, and they didn’t get younger. This move is just not a good one for the D’Backs, unless there’s another impressive piece going to Arizona that hasn’t been reported.
82CardsGrad
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This would make sense if Max had proved that he is a better, more reliable starter than Jackson... which of course he hasn't.
Is Scherzer only a year younger than Jackson? I don't mind this trade nearly as much as some seem to. Calling Jackson a one year wonder doesn't mean much to me since Scherzer has yet to do even that.
82CardsGrad
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Exactly Mulli...
And, over the past two seasons, here are Jackson's #'s:
27 Wins, 20 Losses
397 Innings
269 K's
399 Hits
147 Walks
1.37 WHIP
6.2 average innings per start
This would have been the key year for Max where he would have had to prove he's capable of more than what we've seen thus far. I really don't think it's going out on any limb to suggest that what we saw in '09 might be the best Max can offer as a starter... which, if so, places him behind Jackson...
Arizona's Finest
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Not only that but he has filthy stuff, has done it for TWO years, and was pitching in the AL. The far superior league. I like Sherz as much as the next guy but he hasn't proven he can do what Jackson already has.
I am surprised they are giving up on Schlereth but what this tells me is this team is going for the World Series the next two years. If Webb is healthy (big if) then we have a studly 1-2-3 combo and hopefully last year was the first step in the evolution of a future MVP for Justin Upton.
Also consider this. If Josh Byrnes waits for Scherzer to turn into a star, well lets just say he might not be around to enjoy the fruits of that labor.
The Dbacks need to win next year and get back the fans at all costs.
I am good with this trade. It means the FO thinks we are closer then last year would indicate.
And frankly I agree.
good thing you called BS
ASUCHRIS
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I'm not too bummed about it, Scherzer can throw it through a brick wall, but still had issues getting easy outs, and would rarely get past the 6th inning. Considering his potential for serious injury due to his past and his violent throwing motion, I think it's worth the risk of trading him.
I agree. Scherzer would back up a good outing with a stinker. He was trying to strike everyone out instead of just getting them out. Hopefully Edwin Jackson pans out for us, AZ Finest is right, this year is HUGE for the D-Backs.
devilfan02
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Talk about a shortsighted view... You're acting like Scherzer has been in the Bigs for awhile.... He just finished his first full year in the majors and showed a great deal of promise. You're going to be so shortsighted to think he can't learn more pitches or harness his command? Give me a break, Scherzer has all the tools to develop into a top of the rotation pitcher with more experience and work.
Scherzer has started 32 games and thrown a total of 226 innings.
Jackson has started 110 games and thrown 670 innings.
Scherzer, in his first full year in the majors, had more strikeouts than Jackson has ever had in any season.
I would hope Jackson has shown A LITTLE more promise than Scherzer with that much more time/work to develop.
Three teams have already given up on Jackson which should also raise a huge red flag but I guess you've already seen enough after only a year. What a joke.
While I'm at it, the rest of baseball see's what kind of prospect Ian Kennedy really is - an injury plagued prospect who projects as a fringe starter. CRAP
devilfan02
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IMO, we are nowhere close to being a contender which is why I'm so agianst this trade. Just my opinion
82CardsGrad
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Jackson got started in the majors when he was 19 years old. He didn't become a full-fledged, full-time starter in the league until 2007. And in '08 and '09, he pitched extremely well. I listed his combined #'s for these two years above. Waiting for Max to "develop" is a bigger gamble than grabbing a proven starter like Jackson. And, as was said earlier, all this means is that the D-Backs want to win NOW. As a fan, I am very happy to see this and see the team willing to make these types of moves in order to enhance their chances for winning, NOW.
Again, claiming you know what type of prospect Kennedy is is simply being ignorant... You don't know as nobody knows. The kid has pitched 59 innings and started 12 games in the bigs. None of which were in 2009! You don't know... What we do know is that he had a stellar career at USC, and was projected to be a Mike Mussina type big league pitcher. He's healthy now. And he will now have a true, legit shot at earning a slot on the starting rotation. I am all for it!
